It's a world of laughter

[AndrewP]

I have a cousin who routinely did the same thing to every date who commented in that way on her ocean front home ... her feeling was they were more interested in the property than her so good riddance

Might as well keep burning through this thread. I've managed to get some work done but understandably am having a tough time focusing today. I can appreciate the Italian in you now bttrfly.

At lunch I bumped into a friend who was just gob-smacked that one of B's biggest issues was the size of the house and the cats since she wasn't allergic and the cats generally ignored her. She joked that I'd best be careful to not get lost when I got home. She was especially confused because B came from a tiny crowded apartment and figured that she'd glory in the room and privacy that this place has. She was extra surprised that B pushed to move especially since this place is indeed dead cheap to live in. I think my mortgage for this 4 bedroom house is the same as S38 pays for a crappy 2 bedroom apartment the next town over.

----

I know that generally speaking that trusting what people say vs their actions is suspect but I re-read B's long text to me from yesterday with perhaps a clearer head than I had previously.

She'd commented in the past numerous times on how I was so very much "better" than her and she went over that a few times in her message. Yes, I'm better read, have been known to add two numbers together consistently and managed to resurrect her mostly dead computer but that's to me not an indicator of the quality of a person. She was proud of it and would brag about me to her friends and family. Her note said that she was really struggling to "fit in" which is perhaps why she was consistently reluctant to / avoided meeting my friends and family(?)

The bulk of the note was on how she wasn't being fair to me and how she has so much stuff of her own to deal with that she hadn't realized was there. "I just can't give you enough of me right now" as she says.

So hoping that this is a positive thing in the long run for both of us. I do honestly think that I won't ever really understand why this didn't work out and perhaps B won't either. The reality is though - that it didn't work out - for either of us.

I'm still connected to her on social media although I turned off the "follow" feature so don't see anything in her feed - not that there's much to see. She re-posts recipes and cute videos and is silent on her personal life. I recall it bothering me that she never acknowledged "publicly" that we were seeing each other - not even a "lunch with my sweetie" - which I followed suit on. Again, like with the not un-packing - an indicator of a reluctance to commit.

I do have to ask myself the question that if she does get her issues with her son and her STBX etc all sorted out and does come back around - what will I do? I honestly don't know the answer to that especially today. I am glad that I have stood firm on my boundaries even if it meant the end of this relationship.

Much learning it turns out is painful.

[bttrfly]

You don’t need to know the answer to that Andrew until and if that happens
You have enough on your plate to deal with today without borrowing nor from the future as kemp would say

[bttrfly]

cell phone keyboards are suboptimal !^^^^ was trying to say without borrowing more from the future as kml would say xoxoxoxo hope your night is stress free my friend xoxoxoxo {{{{{{{Andrew}}}}}}}

[AndrewP]

Broke down and texted B last night while doing dishes. Didn't do a darned bit of good beyond confirming that she is determined that this is the right thing for her / us to do. Since she is in the "we'll always be friends" camp I don't think she minded.

I know that it will pass but the house feels so very empty right now.

This is for the best. She wasn't happy here and I was growing unhappy with her. Cognitive dissonance. Withdrawal. Time and distance are the only proper cures.

As a good knight errant I have done my duty and more. There is no Dulcinea. Only castles built on air.

I may see about staying home Friday. If she gets the rest of her stuff today then I may. I did sleep somewhat decently but I think that I haven't yet and won't for some days absorb what has happened. I don't regret standing firm on not moving any time soon but I do think that the core issue was that B wasn't ready to commit regardless of any other factors. The fact that she never unpacked what she brought from the marital home shows that independent of any noise about cats, house, or her son. I think that no matter what I had said or done that the underlying issues of her being stuck adulting for S38 and her wish to recreate the life she thought she had would have remained and perhaps gotten worse.

I think that because she was a WAW that this is easier for her to let go and move on. I'm glad that it's not easy for me even if it is for the best in the long term.

[bttrfly]

{{{{{Andrew}}}}}

This will pass but it won't be pain-free in the process. You've got a good handle on it, I think. Dulcinea is overrated. Try to figure out what it is you're supposed to learn from this relationship. Ponder that for a bit. Your answers might surprise yourself.

xoxoxoxo
hugs

[doodler]

I know that it will pass but the house feels so very empty right now.

Andrew,

I was feeling the same way yesterday evening. I signed the papers to sell my house and suddenly the big house that was devoid of sons and pets was a terribly lonely place. Believe me, I feel your pain.

Over the past few years, pain and suffering has become a good friend; it almost always allows me to introspect and figure out what I need to do to better myself. Last night, to fight the onset of melancholy, I decided to go to the bookstore and buy a book (yes, a brick and mortar bookstore). I had a specific book in mind, but Books-A-Million didn't have the book so I went to Barnes and Noble. B&N had the book, so I bought the book and picked up a takee outee burrito and went home and started reading. I read the book until midnight and went to bed. I woke up at 4:30am and decided to continue reading until it was time to get ready for work. The book and burrito combo pulled me out of my funk and now I'm feeling so much better.

I hope you're feeling better today. If not, maybe try a book and burrito combo.

[AndrewP]

I hope you're feeling better today. If not, maybe try a book and burrito combo.

I might do better with a taco

I just laughed because I saw on my facebook feed a post from the cafe my ex-wife and I went to every Sunday morning advertising Taco Thurdsay (yes spelled that way)

I had been reading some fairly heavy stuff - mostly histories and switched a couple of weeks ago back to things that are more light and fun. I do far too much introspection here. I could probably number each and every bump in my entrails at this point.

Just opened my lunch bag - 2 spoons. My brain is certainly not firing on all cylinders. Ah well - dishes will be easier.

Word is spreading through my social circle that I'm now single again. Lots of support and sympathy. A fair amount of WTF

I also heard from B this morning. Logistics on moving out - asking where to leave her key. I asked if I get to keep the couch which was a gift / donation from her daughter who was moving or if I would repeat my "dancing naked in the living room" from 3+ years ago. The couch it seems is staying. She also re-iterated that it was all for the best and that in time "you'll see why I did it". I hope that I won't need to go back for more STD testing. I do really doubt that she's been unfaithful but as history has shown - you'll never know. In hindsight she did seem to get a lot more distant after her last visit with her STBX. I do know that there are pretty slim pickings in my rural area of available men who can afford a comfortable lifestyle. And B for all that I'm very fond of her, doesn't easily rise to the top of the pile when compared with the younger, prettier, better educated, more financially sound alternatives out there that such men would normally be attracted to. But I do recall her telling me about men who contacted her with promises of trips and adventure but who then vanished in to the mists or were obviously out for just a quick lay when she contacted them.

I do hope that she will be indeed taking time to get her stuff all sorted out and numbered and as she would say "find her level". If nothing else, the past 6 months has shown her that she can be loved for who she is which may give her the confidence in herself to be without a partner.

She's hoping to get everything remaining in one trip. I assured her that between her car and her youngest son's truck that everything except the couch should fit. It seems that her son isn't helping her move. I suspect that he didn't help on Tuesday either. It will probably be tight but since I won't be home until probably after 7:00 she has lots of time to make 2 trips. Since I did most of the packing, putting for example the clothes from her closet into garment bags and random kitchen and bathroom stuff in to boxes and totes I expect that the move will go smoother for her than she expects and it may well all fit in her car. Theoretically she could ask S24 to also take a load but doubt that she will.

I can't help but wonder what her friends and family are thinking of all of this. I recall her best friend's husband giving me a huge hug after we met and he's not a hugging sort of guy. I got on well with her friends and family that I met. I will say that I won't be hugely surprised if there is something going on that I know nothing about. I may never know though. Her STBX is certainly very attached to her and I know that they talk regularly. I suspect that B expects similar from me and will be doubtless disappointed.

The fact that her youngest son or even random friends aren't helping with the move is perhaps telling as well. I can't imagine having "Mom" move in to your basement / spare room and not helping with the logistics of it.

-----------

In other notes, because I'm now "unsupervised", I called the tattoo shop about getting another laser treatment done on my arm to get rid of the last bits of the "True Love Knot" that I had done for my now ex-wife. B had requested that I stop those because she didn't want me hurting myself but now that's not an issue. She's fired herself from that job.

Today is the 8th "adopt-a-versary" of my girls. They certainly have seniority in the house. I could perhaps blame them, or S24 for how things turned out but I really don't think it would have made any difference. Ignoring the possible conspiracy theories, B would still be trying to build her perfect life on a foundation that just doesn't support it.

Finally - I noticed this morning that my ex and OM are back from going down to visit D26 with his truck and trailer using up 4 or 5 parking spaces at her apartment. I'm sure her landlord is loving that. Given 2 days to drive down, 2 days to drive back and visiting for 2 days, they oddly must not have done any side trips. Norfolk / Virginia Beach and points between there and Ontario are filled with some really fabulous places that I regret that I'll probably never visit again. Being as he is retired now and she theoretically could do reasonably fine on just my support payments they certainly could have afforded more time. Curious watchers are watching to see if now that his house has sold if they move in together. Unless she's fundamentally changed for the better and her trending had been to get more and more selfish and angry over time, I can' see it working all that well. But then again, not my circus and I have been proven wrong about so many things so many times that I just sort of expect that.

Well - lunch time is almost done. B will probably be at the house around 2:00 after she gets off work. It will be good for her stuff to be gone when I get home. I know my ex-wife's cr@p hanging around for I can't remember how many months really put a damper on my ability to start fresh.

[bttrfly]

Dear Heart,

The oft-present need to know the sometimes unknowable... while I understand the pondering, I reiterate that your energy would be more usefully spent on creating two lists for yourself: one checklist of what you don't want, and one checklist of what you do want. Make these factoring in the new knowledge that you have in the post-B relationship world. You may want to go so far as a friend of mine has gone - he's actually got "rules" and they seem to work for him.

Andrew my dear we're still in the dust settling post-B phase, so I understand the focus on her and naturally a bit on exw, but I want you to know that my personal wish for you is that you put these two behind you and focus exclusively on what you want and need in any future relationships so that you can get really clear, very specific, and use your incredible energy to manifest that for yourself.

She (whomever she is) will be lucky and you and the cats will be happy. happy 8 years with Amy and Liz, two lovely ladies without baggage and with gratitude.

xoxoxoxoxo

[Dawn70]

I also heard from B this morning. Logistics on moving out - asking where to leave her key. I asked if I get to keep the couch which was a gift / donation from her daughter who was moving or if I would repeat my "dancing naked in the living room" from 3+ years ago. The couch it seems is staying. She also re-iterated that it was all for the best and that in time "you'll see why I did it". I hope that I won't need to go back for more STD testing. I do really doubt that she's been unfaithful but as history has shown - you'll never know. In hindsight she did seem to get a lot more distant after her last visit with her STBX. I do know that there are pretty slim pickings in my rural area of available men who can afford a comfortable lifestyle. And B for all that I'm very fond of her, doesn't easily rise to the top of the pile when compared with the younger, prettier, better educated, more financially sound alternatives out there that such men would normally be attracted to. But I do recall her telling me about men who contacted her with promises of trips and adventure but who then vanished in to the mists or were obviously out for just a quick lay when she contacted them.

I do hope that she will be indeed taking time to get her stuff all sorted out and numbered and as she would say "find her level". If nothing else, the past 6 months has shown her that she can be loved for who she is which may give her the confidence in herself to be without a partner.

Andrew my dear, you are the KING of mind-reading. STOP IT! It does you absolutely no good and you even say throughout the post that you may never know so stop trying to read into things and suss out what happened. Take her at her word and move on. That whole "let's be friends" thing sounds lovely, but you know what, it honestly doesn't work. I mean, it may work for those who have younger children, at least on the surface, for the sake of the kids, but we are farther along on life's path than some of the others on this board and our kids are adults, so trust me when I tell you that there is really no good to come from remaining friends. You will always just wonder if she's being honest, if she was honest about the break-up, a million things that are NOT your concern. She is who she is and she did what she did for her own reasons, whether she is actually voicing them or not. As we have all deduced and I think you agree with, the cats and oppressive house were BS, but you are smart enough to know there is an underlying reason that you are not privy to and may never be. Wish her well and move on. You can't assume she was unfaithful anymore than you can assume she was faithful, if that makes sense. I mean, I know people talk on this board all the time about how spouses are unfaithful and they didn't know. H3ll, mine was and I had no idea until after the fact, but my point is, if you allow yourself to go down that trail of thinking, you will maybe taint what could just be a nice memory of a relationship with a nice lady that had some good points and just be a pleasant little blip on the radar.

I can't help but wonder what her friends and family are thinking of all of this. I recall her best friend's husband giving me a huge hug after we met and he's not a hugging sort of guy. I got on well with her friends and family that I met. I will say that I won't be hugely surprised if there is something going on that I know nothing about. I may never know though. Her STBX is certainly very attached to her and I know that they talk regularly. I suspect that B expects similar from me and will be doubtless disappointed.

The fact that her youngest son or even random friends aren't helping with the move is perhaps telling as well. I can't imagine having "Mom" move in to your basement / spare room and not helping with the logistics of it.

All of this makes me think of something that someone I admire and respect used to say to me often. I'd ramble on about something and when I was through, he would say "so what?" You can't fix it or solve it or glean any real, true answers from it, so why worry about it? What her friends and family think are none of your concern and other than the possibility that you might run into them at some point and have contact, she will be left to deal with it, not you. While I thought B was a nice lady all along (and though I'm disappointed that she hurt you, I don't necessarily think that she is not still a nice lady), she always seemed kind of flighty and one who kind of goes where the wind blows her. So, the point is there very well may NOT be something going on that you nothing about. It may just be her whim and she seems mighty subject to those. Think about it. She knew her son's lease was going to be up in June. She knew that she needed to be with him to facilitate his having custody of his kids. And with those things in her path, she still jumped up and moved in with you rather quickly in your relationship, not even to mention the fact that she did all that while still married to someone else. I'm not in B's head and I'm not trying to mind read, but I honestly don't think ANY of this had anything to do with you.

Finally - I noticed this morning that my ex and OM are back from going down to visit D26 with his truck and trailer using up 4 or 5 parking spaces at her apartment. I'm sure her landlord is loving that. Given 2 days to drive down, 2 days to drive back and visiting for 2 days, they oddly must not have done any side trips. Norfolk / Virginia Beach and points between there and Ontario are filled with some really fabulous places that I regret that I'll probably never visit again. Being as he is retired now and she theoretically could do reasonably fine on just my support payments they certainly could have afforded more time. Curious watchers are watching to see if now that his house has sold if they move in together. Unless she's fundamentally changed for the better and her trending had been to get more and more selfish and angry over time, I can' see it working all that well. But then again, not my circus and I have been proven wrong about so many things so many times that I just sort of expect that.

At the risk of going off on the tangent of "chastising" you yet again about wasting too much thought/time/effort on your XW, let me just bullet point my thoughts about this paragraph:
* LET IT GO!
*Are YOU the curious watcher because you seem to know a LOT about the particulars?
* People do not fundamentally change. They may change attitudes about certain things or specific likes and dislikes, but people will always be who they are.
* You said it, NOT YOUR CIRCUS, so STOP showing up at the big top!

I really do wish you all the best, Andrew, and am truly sorry things didn't work out with B. I think you are a great catch and I KNOW there is a lovely, worthy woman out there somewhere waiting for you to come along. So, let B go, let the XW go and for once, just focus on Andrew. Stop worrying about everyone else and worry about you. You are totally worth it!!!!!!!!

[kml]

Criteria for new woman:
1) Must like cats
2) Must be fiscally responsible and hopefully self-sufficient
3) Good in bed
4) Kind
5) Reasonably tidy (asking for someone on your level there may be too much)
6) Interested in ideas and the world

I think 1, 2 and 6 were areas where B was lacking.