Persistent Endurance (Part 5)

[LH19]

C,

You know the letter was the wrong thing to do that's why you didn't run it by the board. Please take the next year and learn to love and respect yourself. You have two young boys who need you and look up to you. If you don't make some serious changes they will likely walk down the same path as you when they are older.

Always remember that no one will ever say or do anything to you that you don't allow them to.

Good luck my friend.

[curtis7]

You are still hanging on for dear life to that rope...

You have just made a statment about disrespect, then go against all logic and send the email about Retroivaille... Pursuit !

You are still thinking on emotion. You are not making rational decisions. I haven't gone back through the thread, but from memory one of the Vets even states that Retrouvaille won't move forward if a partner is engaged in an affair ? Yet you still send the email.. Your words will not shake her from this ( In much the same way I feel my words to you fall on deaf ears ) - You are trying to save your marrige, i am trying to help you to save yourself - or at least make the most of the life you have...

Your marriage is gone.. It will never return as you knew it

Point I am making - its a hard decision, your emotions are working against you etc - But you need to let go...

I can't help but feel the decision to see a laywer wasnt about you wanting a divorce, but another hope that the letter may snap her out of this.. She is too far gone..

Get rid of the horse and break contact, except when kid related - If you only see her once a week etc you will make massive progress..

We all came here because we didn’t want a D. I know the MR I knew is gone and will never come back. Frankly, I don’t want that MR anymore because my W didn’t feel loved, respected, and appreciated enough to remain committed and faithful. I do want to try and start a new MR with her and find out if we can have something better. Ideally without having to go through with a D first. This is only possible if she chooses to end her A’s.

One thing I’ve learned on this board and in reading NMMNG and other resources is that it’s unlikely that you’ll get what you want if you don’t ask. So, the email described RetroV, I expressed my desire to try it, and asked if she was interested. I know a requirement for RetroV is that neither S is involved in another R. So, the first step is to ask if she’s willing, the second is to ask if she’ll end her A’s and really participate with an open mind.

I’ve let go of the outcomes. I’m moving down parallel paths. If she agrees to attend RetroV, that’s a positive step. Although, if she proceeds with the D path, then I’m preparing to protect the best interest for me and my kids.

My decision to see a L was twofold, 1) to terminate the disrespect, get out of limbo, and move forward with living my life and 2) hope that she would feel loss when faced with the reality of D. I realize that the latter is extremely unlikely with where she’s at as a person and who she’s become. Again, I’ve let go of the outcomes, but I want a decision from her. No, I don’t want a D, but I will not remain in a MR with infidelity, this has gone on long enough and it’s time for choices to be made.

[SteveLW]

I've said this 100 times if I've said it once........being impulsive will kill your DBing efforts every time.

As MrBSide pointed out, you are contradicting yourself. "I am done....will not tolerate the disrespect of an OM in a MR." Next breath: "Please go to Retrouvaille with me!!!"

As he said, that lost you respect in her eyes.

As another anti-D author (not MWD) states....if more LBHs took a stance of "I am not taking this, you are out of here." with their WAW/WW then more marriages would be saved. Beta behavior will get you D'd almost every time.

[AnotherStander]

MrBrside has seemingly come out of nowhere with some outstanding comments, observations and advice, I think he is really spot on in what he said in the last few posts. Read it and take it in!

You guys were right. Her awakening was not sustainable. It didn’t last, she is back with the OM.

So it played out exactly like we said it would. Why? Because we have seen these situations sooooo many times and we know what to expect. Please listen to us, we're trying to help but you've got to trust that we know what we're talking about, and I think right now you're still trusting your (oh-so-wrong) instincts over our advice.

WW was with divorced BFF last night and it appears that has cemented my fate.

Don't sweat BFF. She's just an "enabler" and all that means is she is telling your W what she already wants to hear. She is going to surround herself with enablers and cut people out of her life that try to talk some sense into her. It's what WAS's do.

To make things more interesting, I decided to hit send tonight on an email I drafted a couple months ago asking her to attend Retrouvaille with me. I am fully expecting a no or no response, however it gives her something to think about. Nothing left to lose at this point and if the question ever comes up with my kids I can show them that I tried up until the end.

And this is where your faulty instincts are sending you astray again. DON'T DO THIS. PERIOD. If you've learned nothing from the last week then learn this- you simply cannot trust your instincts, because they are WRONG. LISTEN TO US!!!! Detach. Leave her alone. STOP ALL THE PRESSURE!!! Not only will the answer be "no", but she will wonder at just how sad and pathetic you are that you keep doing this even when she's having an affair right in your face. That is NOT attractive. Incidentally, you couldn't go to Retrou even if you wanted to because she is in an affair. To even get your foot in the door of Retrou both of you have to separately pass a phone interview stating there is no OP and that you are at least somewhat interested in giving the M a chance.

[MrBrside]

"

MrBrside has seemingly come out of nowhere

I've been here a while but HATED my username.. It sucked!!! my account was created during a time of desperation..

I may have moved on, but the username always reminded me of how i used to feel - it had to go...

I have added the following to my sig, but it doesnt show on posts...

"

Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.

Don't sweat BFF. She's just an "enabler" and all that means is she is telling your W what she already wants to hear. She is going to surround herself with enablers and cut people out of her life that try to talk some sense into her. It's what WAS's do.

I think you used this word (enabled) - you or somebody else did recently and i never got chance to comment.. and its bang on. My WAW did just this. Enablers and validators. I first heard this word off the marrige counciler on a 1 to 1 call.. She told me i was an enabler, as i always found a way to give the WAW what she desired / wanted. I suspect a lot of us become enablers ( happy wife, easy life rubbish ) - its when they dont get their own way, it goes south.. But its a catch 22.. I think they also lose respect for the bloke that bends over backward to do everything to create this "happy wife / happy life"

[ovrrnbw]

I love the MrBrightside name. My name was one made from a desperate mindset too.

Curtis, I still haven't asked my W about Retrouvaille. That is a lot. I think my W might feel pressure even now. I can't imagine how yours would feel. It also better for you to cease the pressure. You will be able to live at ease.

I can't believe you still let her come over and play mommy and daddy and see the horse and clean the house and get her little housewife fix in. When is that $%^& going to stop?

I think you're clinging to that, thinking that it is a way to rebuild your connection with her.

[LB55]

WW was with divorced BFF last night and it appears that has cemented my fate.

Don't sweat BFF. She's just an "enabler" and all that means is she is telling your W what she already wants to hear. She is going to surround herself with enablers and cut people out of her life that try to talk some sense into her. It's what WAS's do.

Yeah this rings true for me too. The only friend I hear anything about is divorced BFF that lives in waterfront home paid for by alimony of 3 previous H. My W spoke of wanting to live next door to her because its just so peaceful before she BD me. She is the one that provided books on how to 'live for yourself', 'divorcing narcissists', 'power negotiating', etc to W. BFF is a of the proponent of sayings like men are pigs and women don't need men in their lives, etc.

Funny thing is W has been telling me how necessary it has been to cut the 'negative' people from her life to make things better. All the 'negative' people are all of our friends from before BD. You know, the ones that know me and the ones that would advise her she is doing the wrong thing on every account. She has no friends from before BD. According to her they all 'left her' and she had no choice but to find new friends.

[neffer]

Hey C! Don´t wait for a magic bullet. Keep detaching. Focus on yourself. Get rid of those ambiguous behaviors.

Trust yourself Curtis! Keep DB.

[curtis7]

I've said this 100 times if I've said it once........being impulsive will kill your DBing efforts every time.

As MrBSide pointed out, you are contradicting yourself. "I am done....will not tolerate the disrespect of an OM in a MR." Next breath: "Please go to Retrouvaille with me!!!"

As he said, that lost you respect in her eyes.

As another anti-D author (not MWD) states....if more LBHs took a stance of "I am not taking this, you are out of here." with their WAW/WW then more marriages would be saved. Beta behavior will get you D'd almost every time.

Steve, hindsight is 20/20. If I knew at BD and EA/PA discovery what I know now, strong action to not tolerate her behavior would have been taken. Yes, many LBHs are too slow to learn and recognize that their sitch is not unique. For many of us it took too long to accept and see reality for what it is. My MR may not be saved, hopefully others are by learning from my mistakes.

I know what I’m saying is contradictory; however, I view it as having multiple exits on my journey. RetroV could be taken, if that’s passed by, then proceeding with D could be taken. I am okay with whichever she chooses at this point. I am just no longer okay with the affairs while being married to her. That arrangement will either end by her choice or by one of us starting the D.

And this is where your faulty instincts are sending you astray again. DON'T DO THIS. PERIOD. If you've learned nothing from the last week then learn this- you simply cannot trust your instincts, because they are WRONG. LISTEN TO US!!!! Detach. Leave her alone. STOP ALL THE PRESSURE!!! Not only will the answer be "no", but she will wonder at just how sad and pathetic you are that you keep doing this even when she's having an affair right in your face. That is NOT attractive.

I’ve left her alone for months during the physical S and where has that gotten me? Yes, I carry on with my life and make the most of my time with the kids, but time and space has not slowed down her WW or A’s. It seems we are now in a neck and neck race for who takes legal action first.

She is not aware that I know about the affairs. Therefore, from that perspective I don’t believe it looks sad and pathetic. She sees me this whole time as waiting for her to come back, her having all the power to make that decision if she decides that is what she wants. I’m sure it would seem weak to ask her to attend RetroV if I exposed my knowledge of her A’s to her. My goal was to plant a seed. Coach said to remember TEA, Thoughts proceed Emotions and Emotions proceed Actions. Now it’s out there and she can read about the program if she so chooses. The thought has been shared along with how I feel it could help us. This may trigger emotions for her in the future. It may not be something she is willing to partake in at the next session in September, but perhaps somewhere down the road this will strike a chord and be an experience she suggests we try.

Recommendations on where to go from here are appreciated. Since we both have L meetings upcoming and assuming she says no to Retro, do I deliver my D settlement proposal or let her do the work and present hers first? I don’t know how quickly she will move, but the benefit I see in delivering mine first is to accelerate the process, get the horse off property, and break off contact sooner rather than later.

[curtis7]

This just in...W just texted that she will give Retro a try. Now, how do I break the news to her that she can’t be involved with OM?