Persistent Endurance (Part 5)

[SteveLW]

Terrible decision curtis to try and control her with the OM boundary.

Steve, the boundary was not to control her, it was to protect myself. I went through hell when she was living with me and contacting OM in front of me. I was willing to help out the other family, but not willing to put up with crap that affects my emotions. The result, she has respected my boundary and left her phone in the car the past two nights.

Something has changed, it could be temporary, but I’ll expound on my update about last night.

Man up. Be AMOAWL. And getting upset about her texting or messaging someone is not it. You act like she was screen sharing on a big screen TV as she messaged. If you are talking about always being on her phone, so what? We've all been through that. One of the biggest problems LBSs make is focusing on the wrong things.

And deep down, whether you want to admit it or not, it is about control.

[unchien]

Curtis - I agree with the others about misinterpreting your W's words and actions. I agree that supporting her through a difficult time is okay, but don't look for things that aren't there.

Regarding the boundary and control, MWD herself has an opinion! I heard this on a podcast where she was interviewed. In this case, she was talking about teenagers being sneaky (using it as an analogy for cheaters).

If you go to a teenage child and say "You are being sneaky, I am going to check your phone every day and I want to know what you are doing and who you are texting"... what are they going to do? They are going to go deeper underground. They will install apps that delete texts. They will get extra sneaky. And you will lose trust. Or they will abide by the rules but they will feel controlled and have resentment. In that case you trust them more, but at what price?

Your W is following your rules, but at what price?

the boundary was not to control her, it was to protect myself. I went through hell when she was living with me and contacting OM in front of me. I was willing to help out the other family, but not willing to put up with crap that affects my emotions. The result, she has respected my boundary and left her phone in the car the past two nights.

Curtis I am really sorry you are going through what you are going through. I can't imagine the pain of dealing with your W's choices and actions. I don't know how I would handle or tolerate your situation, and I feel a bit guilty giving you advice on something I don't have experience myself with. I know I would have intense jealousy for one.

However... I do have experience with emotional awareness and regulation. "Crap that affects my emotions" - of course it affects your emotions. Explore this -- do you feel like your W "makes" you feel a certain way? If so, you have given control of your emotions over to your W, and even worse, by adopting the attitude that your emotions are at the whim of another person, you will struggle to regain your emotional balance because you aren't putting in the hard work to achieve it.

I think Steve85 and other vets here are trying to give you advice on appropriate boundaries that work for situations like yours. They have been through the trials by fire. I'm not going to give you a hard time about the boundary you set because I do understand where you are coming from. You don't want your W flaunting things in your face. It triggers you. I get it. I'm just nudging you towards being able to handle these things with more emotional equanimity.

[curtis7]

Continuing my update on the events from yesterday. W texted me in the morning asking if I heard from the friend whose husband died in the motorcycle accident. Then she started going into a bunch of hypothetical what if's that may have prevented it from occurring. I asked W how she was doing with all of it and she replied that she woke up and it hit her like a ton of bricks.

In the evening, W came over to feed the horse and came in the house to get the kids to stay at her place for the evening. We started a conversation about the accident again and W said she hates herself for not being there for her friend. I validated and told her she would have countless opportunities in the future to let her know how much she cares. W said "I like to think I have good ethics and morals, but I don't, I constantly make bad choices." and "I act upon instinctual urges."

Then, she broke down in tears. I went to her and hugged her for about a minute to try and comfort her. She did not pull away, she wrapped her arms around me, she remained in the embrace until I let her go. This is only the 3rd time I touched my W all year, the first 2 attempts (January and May) were unwanted/rejected, this time she appreciated the support.

She went on to talk about how she felt when her mother died when she was 19 and how she doesn't remember much of it as that time in her life was "erased" from her memory. W said she has a dangerous power of being able to block out painful experiences. She continued to talk about her adolescent years and dealing with her alcoholic mother that treated her like garbage leading up to her death from cancer.

We continued to talk, she wasn't in a hurry to leave. I think she stayed for about 2.5 hours before finally taking the kids to her place. Once she got back to her place and the kids were asleep, she texted me about random stuff for about an hour.

That takes us through Monday night.

Now many of you may think I'm delusional and that could be; however, I do sense that something has changed in her. What she was saying to me, her body language, the look in her eyes all tell me that she is starting or has finally realized that her behavior is not in line with her moral compass. I also think that she has gone NC with the OM...at least for the time being.

I'm not naive to think that 2 days of this new personality means she is back to normal and I know she could revert back to WW in an instant. Although, this could be a turning point where she is slowly drawn out of the fog. This doesn't mean she loves me or has any desire to work on the MR, but it could mean that she starts returning to live a life of higher moral character. I also need to keep my hopes in check as I realize this could be a short-term plea for emotional support as she is coping with the death of her friend's spouse.

[curtis7]

Quick update, W continued to be very chatty over text on Tuesday. Topics were about the friend and her H’s death, kids upcoming school activities, her happiness regarding news that one of our friends from college just got engaged to an old GF from 15 years ago. On the latter, she texted “They are both still young and have lot of life left.”

She went on texting to ask what has happened with divorced BFF’s XH and his behavior since he already got remarried and now only wants his kids every other weekend. She texted “I can understand the marriage not working and being completely infatuated with this woman...but when he just essentially gave up his children?!“ She went on to text about a co-workers friend that started acting completely different and it turns out he had a brain tumor that was affecting his reasoning and judgment.

The two texts noted above got me thinking if she is trying to imply something about us. If so, makes me think we are at a turning point where she is having doubts about the S or is again justifying to herself that D is in her best interest. It could be that she is trying to assess how difficult her path home might be. I know mindreading and probably trying to look for something that has nothing to do with me.

W continued to text me for over an hour on Tuesday night after the kids went to bed. She kept saying she wants to help. Help by mowing the horse pastures, staining a cabinet light rail that I want to install under our wet bar cabinets, and assisting with dropping off the kids at camp in the morning when they are staying with me the night before. She texted “I want to help”, “Please let me help”, and “I’m always available to help”.

Text convo wrapped up with W saying she had a minor breakdown at work after hearing about the organ donation being completed on her friend’s deceased H. But then she was able to finally talk on the phone with her friend about the accident and everything which calmed her down.

On Wednesday...crickets. W was radio silent all day. We had planned to tell our kids in the evening about the friend’s death. W texted after work saying she’s being a coward and wants to put off telling them. I replied that’s fine and that I want to take the lead on telling them and we will do that together when she’s ready.

So, I don’t know where she’s at right now. 3 days of positive, regular interaction and 1 day back to dim, minimal contact. Was I just short-term emotional support or is she really struggling with her feelings and desires versus what she knows is morally right and decent?

I fear her coming out of the tunnel, then getting scared and running back in if she senses any pressure, i.e. the Squirrel Analogy, no sudden movements that might scare her off. Or do I try to gently guide her along and lead her to the safe Lighthouse?

[SteveLW]

We warned you. And your mind reading isn't going to help.

NO you do not gently guide her. curtis, you've been here long enough to know the basic principles. "Gently guiding" is pressure and pursuit. And it is control. All things you avoid.

The lighthouse is unmovable. Everyone knows where it is. If they want to go to the lighthouse they do it, but the lighthouse never goes to them.

[neffer]

Hi Curtis. Let me tell you something. Wayward world is all about ourselves, it´s all selfishness. Those are our prime feelings. So you can see your W devastated by what happened to her friend, her wanting to help and being elusive about talking to the kids about what happened...Do you see her devastated for what she´s done to the MR or to the family? Keep hope and expectations secured man.

As Steve says, just keep your light on.

Be strong Curtis, keep DB!

[curtis7]

We warned you. And your mind reading isn't going to help.

NO you do not gently guide her. curtis, you've been here long enough to know the basic principles. "Gently guiding" is pressure and pursuit. And it is control. All things you avoid.

The lighthouse is unmovable. Everyone knows where it is. If they want to go to the lighthouse they do it, but the lighthouse never goes to them.

Steve, right now I feel somewhat duped. My hopes did rise in the past few days and I now I’m cycling back down. I’m going to re-post something from Part 3 of my sitch back in April that you shared with someone else (http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846409#Post2846409):

“If you had a crystal ball and could see that if her A will end in July....that she would recommit to the marriage in Sept. and in a year from now you guys would be in the same bed, coparenting as spouses, going on weekly dates, what would you choose? Obviously you can't know that, but one of the things I've adopted for people going through this is: earn your way out of your marriage. IE, don't take the easy way out. Make sure you can look back and say to yourself, I did all I could do to try to save this marriage. It may come up later with your kids.”

I do hope the crystal ball is correct for my sitch and the death of her friend’s H ended the A in July and she will recommit in September. I was ready to take action to end the limbo until the recent events. Now, I’m considering extending my timeline again.

I plan to sit back, observe her actions, and take stock for the time being. Wait for her to come to me...patience, patience, patience.

[curtis7]

Hi Curtis. Let me tell you something. Wayward world is all about ourselves, it´s all selfishness. Those are our prime feelings. So you can see your W devastated by what happened to her friend, her wanting to help and being elusive about talking to the kids about what happened...Do you see her devastated for what she´s done to the MR or to the family? Keep hope and expectations secured man.

As Steve says, just keep your light on.

Nef, you’re right, I see her feeling guilt and wanting to do things that make her feel better as a person, but I don’t see remorse for what she’s done to the MR. The light is on and the road home is paved and smooth if she wants that.

[AnotherStander]

Was I just short-term emotional support

YES THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS AND WHAT WE TOLD YOU IT WAS!!!! I'm not yelling, just emphasizing that point You're firmly in the friendzone with her. Emotional support when she needs it, nothing to her when she doesn't need it. It's interesting that you said you feel like you got duped, I think you did too, but not by her. Her actions are very consistent and predictable for a WAS. You were duped by your own feelings and expectations.

[sandi2]

I fear her coming out of the tunnel, then getting scared and running back in if she senses any pressure, i.e. the Squirrel Analogy, no sudden movements that might scare her off. Or do I try to gently guide her along and lead her to the safe Lighthouse?

You see her as coming out of the tunnel? Based on what? Her words?

Think about the lighthouse's job. It shines a beam of light. It doesn't wade out into the stormy waters to pull the sailor to shore. It firmly stands on solid ground and shines light. It's up to the sailor to follow the light to safety.

I think your idea of "gently guiding her" is you trying to help her, and you are using these analogies. It sounds like the right thing to do to the ears of a LBH, however, it doesn't work like you see it. She has to figure it out on her own. You can't fix her, and I think that's what you are really wanting to do. ((hugs))

Whenever the LBH thinks his W is trying to get closer by more talking, or offering to do help with certain responsibilities or chores.......it seems to be a somewhat dangerous territory. By that, I mean that he lets down his guard b/c he wants to believe she is trying to work through her issues or whatever. Actually, he is scared to death to not let her do whatever it is she has mentioned, b/c he fears it's the one time she may have a breakthrough........realization, start coming out of the fog, or whatever. The lines he has drawn begins to blur, b/c he's spending too much time letting her talk/text him, letting her come around the house, etc. First thing he knows, she has slithered under the door like a snake, and has done none of the necessary work. Guess what? That's what she is doing now............slithering. This is JMHO.

Other than her one horse, are there any more horses or animals in the barn? See, you should have either had her to do all the chores connected to the upkeep of the horse.......or removed the horse from the property (unless there is a law the forbids it.) However, you were too soft-hearted when it came to her and the horse, so there were no clear cut lines about her having to take care of the responsibilities of the horse. You would say something, but there were no consequences, so if she didn't want to drive out there to take care of it, then she didn't. Now......she is begging you to let her go so far as to cut the pasture. Are there any other animals, or just the one horse?

The horse (and swimming pool) have been her main reasons for coming to the house, since the separation. You knew this, and I think it's why you were so reluctant to draw hard lines about the horse. You were afraid she would no longer come at all, and you weren't emotionally ready. So now, you are faced with this situation of her wanting to jump in and "help more". It would have been easier if you had had a firm understanding about the horse when she first left. See what I mean?

I don't think she's ready to stick to anything on a regular basis, but rather everything will rely on her mood at that moment. If it inconveniences everyone else, that's too bad. She is wishy-washy and that's why you have to be wise and strongly planted in what is right & wrong. Otherwise, she's going to break your heart over & over again. One day she may want you to listen to her talk for hours. She may even suggest that the family go together and do this or that, but then she lets you & the kids down b/c something else distracted her attention.

Don't let her recent talks mislead you. I think having these long talk/texts play tricks on your heart. It pulls you in, and you become more emotionally attached. How about you limit how much you respond? I mean, you mentally put a time limit on these conversations. After 15 - 20 minutes, you have to go. You stop texting. You are involved in a project, a movie, book, hobby, or something other than using your time to respond to every text message from her. Don't be available all the time. Right now, you cannot think about gently guiding her back, b/c it messes with your head. It's a game you are playing with yourself.