I have been a silent reader for a while and would like to seek the advice from the experts on my next steps. My stitch had been more than a year and I'll like to summarize the background below:
Our family profile as per my signature. Wife is an educator. BD on me in July last year during our anniversary dinner with our marriage might be a the end of road. We've got to see a counselor ( Big Shock for me ) as suggested by her friend and this was actually not new. She's been feeling like that for a few years and etc.
Prior to that, I had been working late for an extended period of time so I thought my absence might have taken a toll on her. But then again it would not be physical exhaustion as we have a helper at home and she would not need to lift a finger on household chores or children as she had the support of my parents as well for the kids. Basically, Apart from working, her day ends with getting home, having dinner (which is all prepared) and then go about with her own things.
After the BD, I agreed with her that let's see a counselor. I also try to reduce the stay back at work and make more time for the family. Along the way, she also mentioned that her friend recommended us to take a couple trip to work it out which I agreed to and paid for the ticket n accommodation to the holiday, our delayed honeymoon so to speak. Abit of general background, she was from quite a well off family with enabling parents while mine is more of a background which everything I have to strive for. Thus I always strive and work hard to provide my family a better life while she has things, rather easy.
However prior to our appointment with the counselor, there were many sessions of argument between us. It seems like she is finding fault with everything and I took her bait, trying to reason and logic with her and when all her claims failed, I am the defensive one. And when it comes to the counselling session, she refuses to go initially. I tried to convince her to attend for the sake of the children which she did, but with a closed heart. At the session, she just keep stating it is over and even the counselor finds her very strong minded about her decision.
Follow that was our trip. When our trip was coming to an end, she started to tell me this is the wrap up trip, instead of the work it out trip. Returning from the trip, she keeps initiating the divorce arrangement talks with me. I had been reading up other help books and following their guide I told her, well if that is what you want, I consent but that is not what I want. I had thought that my wife was having an MLC but now understanding from here, I now understand she is wayward.
A week after we were back from the trip, I found out that actually all along even before BD, she had an EA with her student, which is a teenager. I was shocked and questioned her professionalism and sanity. But after that she just defended they are only friends and she enjoyed hanging out in their student group. They even planned for holiday which I consented initially without knowing it and later, I stopped it. When I stop her from going, she went hysterical and tried to negotiate, bargain with me to allow her to go for the trip but I held on to my stand. Till her behavior got so outta hand that I drag her to a psychiatrist that verified her to be normal and it's just marital issues we're having.
Her family had been involved all this while because I told her fine, if we are going to divorce, lets inform our families and move on. But she always refuse me to let her parents know and mentioned that she will handle them herself and let them know after we are divorced. Which I felt is kinda nuts as I would have owe them an explanation if that happens. They had been trying to help mending our relationship and were totally disappointed in how she was behaving.
She changed her phone password, became very shady and is away from the home always. Drinking, pubs and ktv and I was doing the super husband thing which Sandi mentioned in her reflections post. I got by through the bottom of every bottle, to stay strong for the kids and give them more attention. While she always talks to the kids about separation to try to get them used to it, (in her terms).
Well I had also been through the mistakes of spy/cry/beg/confronting the other boy zzzzz and the mash-mellow stuffs but gradually, I got kinda numb about it. And she claimed to her parents that she had cut contacts with the group of students since December as they had left school.
And since Dec, things had been fine for a while until she start mentioning divorce again. I told her that if she would like to proceed, it's fine. I drafted out the divorce agreement in march and handed it to her. And then I start to seek for my lawyer for my best interest. I told her that once proceedings is being initiated, I will bring the kids along with me and move out.
Thereafter, although she keep mentioning a couple of times that she is going to proceed with the divorce, she never really took the action. Till in May this year, she mentioned it again and said she is going to do it the next day. I said fine, then we will move out then. And the very next day after she got home, she told me she had submitted the documentations to her lawyer, but told them to hold first because she need to think about it still. And she will be moving out to bunk with her friend. I told her that she is most welcome to go and in fact, I was actually relieved that she is moving out.
Her intention to move out was to simulate post divorce living arrangements as I will be the primary care giver of the kids during weekday while she during weekends. And then she will come back during the weekends to accompany the kids. But the funny thing is, she will come back on random days and bring her laundry back for our helper to wash (yeah she's that pampered) and even though she said she will not be home to eat anymore and intend to reduce her joint expenses contribution, she eats anyway when she i back (not that I mind about food actually zzz). I just felt like she is acting like a teenage rebel.
Now couple of months has past. She came back mentioning that her friend intended to rent the room out to a potential tenant. Although her friend did offer her if she like to rent the room, she turned the offer down as she felt like giving the opportunity to another person (I would like to think that she had wore out her friend's patience and people is asking her to leave in a nicer way).
As her stay over her friend's place is expiring, she started her divorce crusade at me again. For 3 weeks, she told me every week she is going to proceed for the divorce. First week she said that I told her it's fine. Go ahead. Although this is not what I wanted, I value your opinion. Although I did told her that her actions along had been selfish and irresponsible to the kids and that is my view of her. Once she proceed, just inform me and I will activate my lawyer.
Then she told me I can just go ahead and plan what I want to do as she will be proceeding. I told her, just let me know after you had proceeded and I will activate my lawyer because once I do so, he will start his charging. I never hear from her about the divorce proceeding for the whole week from then. Then last week, she started again. Saying that we need to talk. I said ok. Then she said she acknowledged I had become a better person, this and that and blah blah blah. I said yes, I have become a better person for myself and the family. Then she went on with the divorce talk again and I told her.... you had been mentioning this for over a year. And my reply to you is always then same. Next, I pass her my lawyer's name card. I told her if you like to proceed, you can copy my lawyer. Then she turned aside and cried. I asked her anything else? She just shook her head while I went to prepare lunch for the family. Awhile later, she came out join us for lunch and acted as if nothing had happened.
Again, I heard nothing from her for the whole week and this week, she is at it again. Talked to me about the divorce, mentioned she had yet to proceed because she is worried that if we divorce, I wanted to move out immediately with the kids. Why don't I move out during the school holidays only so it will be easier for them to adjust. I told her well, that would be my decision isn't it? I will decide and do what is in the best interest for the children. She would not need to worry about that. And because recently I had been GAL and spending much on fashion and myself, she also asked me if I am seeing someone twice. I just gave her a simple, straight no.
Next up, she started to come asked me how much my lawyer is charging? She said divorce is going to cost unnecessary money and since my lawyer's fee is lower, why not we proceed the filing through my lawyer? I told her, my lawyer is there to represent my best interest. Divorce is what u seek for not what I want. So if you like to proceed, please seek your own legal assistance. Even if you look for my lawyer now, he will not take up your case as that would be conflict of interest. Then she backed off and said noted on that.
That was on monday and today is wednesday and I have heard nothing. She actually moved back in on Sunday and mentioned she is going to stay over at her friend's tonight again which I told her to just go ahead.
Above is the brief background of my story. Now I just GAL, and when she is back during the weekends, I will go out and leave everything to her. Previously I did slept in the guest room and gave her the master bedroom with the kids. But later I find it's rather inconvenient and move back to the master bedroom. When she was about to move back, she asked me if I would to move to my parents place when she is back? I replied to her why should I? I am going to stay in the master bedroom and on our bed. If she does not like it, she can sleep on the kids bed or find somewhere else.
I also stopped going over to her place for the weekly visit and meals as I feel that whenever the dynamics is getting back to the norm, she will crusade again. I also stopped our marriage counselling sometime back as I felt it's unproductive and it's more like an airing of complaint session.
Yeah sure my wife had a troubled childhood and problematic past. Thus initially I thought it was MLC and never came to the term wayward. When I mentioned MLC she also start to visit a therapist but she never shared any of the outcome of the sessions with me. And since she does not like to share it, I would not ask her. But whole on whole, she had become like a changed person while I am here standing for the family.
Recently, she had mellowed down somewhat perhaps her antics all these while would have worn her out. But I do not intend to go soft and still stick onto my stand of what I am doing now. GAL and be mentally strong. Just would like to see what advice the Vets would have for me here and if her divorce threats are empty?
Last edited by ToSmile; 07/31/1909:20 AM.
M:38 W:38 T:14 M: 12 S:9 S:6 BD: 07/18 W Moved out: 5/19 W Moved in: 7/19 D draft received: 12/19
Why are you moving out? Seems that since you are the primary caregiver you should stay in the family home.
I would stop reiterating that D is not what you want. You stated it once and that's enough. Her threats are probably to make sure you're on the hook as plan b.
I have a hunch that the ea is still going on and she knows it's wrong but can't end it due to the addictive nature of an affair. If not she's probably looking for that high again.
I'm moving out because we do not intend to keep the marital home. From where I am, Housing is quite expensive and for the size of the house which we are having now actually comes from our joint contribution. And if I am going to assume the house, I will have to buy over her share.
Anyway, the reason I am moving out is because I will be moving over to my parents place at the mean time as they are the primary care taker of my chaps while we work. And I am going to terminate the domestic helper's service back at home and dispose the house asap so I can get another property.
The taking of all these items away is also serving another slap across her face as I will end all financial contribution to current arrangement. I have yet done so because I am still utilizing some of it such as the family car and such but she would be more worst off without it than me.
My plan is stay at my parents place as they look after the kids during the day time and the other property also serves as additional passive income from renting it out. And by moving out, I am trying to get the kids to adapt and if they can't, I'll let them be back to the old house for couple of days and then move over again. They had been telling me that they like the house and don't wish to move out from it. I can keep the house if I want but that would be quite trying and not quite worth it in investment terms. And I will have to seek for separate care taking arrangement for my kids.
With regards of the EA, I do have some suspicions too. Perhaps it might have ended or she is on the look out for someone new. Or perhaps she got into a same gender affair with her friend that she is bunking with now? My wife was previously a divorcee and she was in a same gender relationship until she met me which I came by and gave her a family that she never thought she would have back then blah blah
The fog is deep with this one and she's not out of it. The way she is going at things which I like to joke about is, divorce is her KPI. On my end, I would not care much about her. I felt that she used to get reactions from me via her threats but overtime the effect is wearing off. Then she will dig at me via the children matter but that also cease to be effective for her. On the whole, she's like wolf's wife. Enabling parents, entitled, and yes the general consensus is I also spoil her after her parents that I am totally guilty of.
For now, I am focusing on myself. I am thinking if I should maintain status quo in maintaining my boundaries and continuing DB, or dish out something the next time her nonsense is here again. I just don't quite like that when I am not around, she will go and tell the kids that we are separating and how the arrangement will be like for them and next the kids will be coming to me and ask me about that. I can sense the emotional disturbance in my elder boy. When I told her to stop telling the kids such things, she retorts that she preparing them for it. She knows the kids my soft spot and previously when I said she was selfish, she claims that she is giving up the primary care taking of the kids to me because she knows my parents can take good care of them instead of entrusting them at day care centers. If she is to prove that she care for the kids, she will fight for their custody with me! Well thinking back, I should have told her take them then! haha.
Other than the kids being my primary concern, I am all good though I just feel kinda of like in a limbo for now.
Thus I as hesitating if to post or not to post as it's kinda tiring and sick to raise these old matters but well, I think I would appreciate some directions and new views as I've not been speaking to someone on these matters for a while.
M:38 W:38 T:14 M: 12 S:9 S:6 BD: 07/18 W Moved out: 5/19 W Moved in: 7/19 D draft received: 12/19
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Tosmile, in general I think you are handling things well now. Obviously if you have been reading here for a while then you know what to do and not to do.
I think the most telling part of her recent behavior is this:
"Next up, she started to come asked me how much my lawyer is charging? She said divorce is going to cost unnecessary money and since my lawyer's fee is lower, why not we proceed the filing through my lawyer? I told her, my lawyer is there to represent my best interest. Divorce is what u seek for not what I want. So if you like to proceed, please seek your own legal assistance. Even if you look for my lawyer now, he will not take up your case as that would be conflict of interest. Then she backed off and said noted on that. "
This is typical lazy WW behavior. They want a D but they want to do no work on the D. So they try to make the LBH miserable so they'll file for D. Stand your ground until YOU are ready to end the madness. Your sitch reminds me a lot of another poster's sitch. I'll try to find his threads.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Why are you moving out? Seems that since you are the primary caregiver you should stay in the family home.
I would stop reiterating that D is not what you want. You stated it once and that's enough. Her threats are probably to make sure you're on the hook as plan b.
I have a hunch that the ea is still going on and she knows it's wrong but can't end it due to the addictive nature of an affair. If not she's probably looking for that high again.
I second this bolded part. She's using it against you. She doesn't respect you.
She is doing crazy stuff too. Maybe read some of the older affair busting stuff. I see her crying out for attention and help over and over again, risking jail to carry on an affair with a minor? Or is this college? Either way it's highly questionable. Given that you use the word "holiday" I take it you're somewhere in the UK. That word always gives me a laugh, I find our differences (UK & USA) quite interesting and cool. But on the other hand, if you're in the UK, most of that society is going to see a teacher/student relationship as highly inappropriate, morally wrong, and potential civil and legal liability. It's scary.
I love how strong you've gotten in the last year. I can see your growth. You did great there. I did notice some controlling behavior as well on your part, but I don't know that you're still doing that. What do you want to happen with the MR ultimately?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thanks for your reply. I'm actually not in UK but in Asia.
LH,
Yeah there were much red flags and I was thinking I could be the person who helped her out of it hah. She ever been in a self-discovery course couple of years back and the trainer got them to do some sketching. From her artwork, the trainer mentioned she has some serious issues but she plainly brush it off back then. Now when it all spilled out, she start seeking for some professional help through art theraphy.
My boundaries to her are:
1. As long as we are in this marriage, I will not allow any third party in it. If she need her freedom and to resolve her issues, go ahead. But I will not take it lying down if there is a third party. (This I communicated to her.)
2. I stopped any intimacy with her because, I am not a man tool. (I told her this too)
3. I do not let her thrash talk me nor talk down at me. (This I carried out via my action)
4. I no longer allow her to convince me how inadequate I was as a husband to her needs and feel sad about it. Because I genuinely believes I tried to the best that I could in my role. It is perhaps our expectation does not match and our communication broke down. When we have such issue, it should be resolved through us and mediation, not through her actions.
Once BD, I started to sort out things and taking actions to work on the marriage and where I thought I fell short in then. Although she claimed she tried to work on it blah blah blah, I seen zero actions from her towards rebuilding the relationship. Instead it's all hell break loose, doing what she want to do and totally letting her emotions rule over everything.
Back then we were we seeing a counselor, the counselor also noted that she has an escapist character. Instead of facing and resolving problem, she either bury it or run away from it. I guess that is how she lead her life. She had a petty chaotic childhood with the parents frequently quarreling and the mum always telling them she is staying in the marriage because of them children. And mum was kinda abusive as well towards her when she's young due to her own frustrations over hardship in life and etc and W just bury everything and put up the front to be the ideal daughter to please the mum. Not to mentioned family was very controlling and imposed unreasonable restrictions on her. Thus, she had little commitment to rough it through issues I think. Because she keep saying that she does not want to be like her mum and stay for the children. She just want to do her own things. find her own place, live by herself and doing everything by herself. Thus when she moved out, I encouraged her so she can have a feel of how it is.
But then she was still very dependent on the home support. Also because after the rough childhood when the family is doing better, the parents tried to make it up to them siblings and pampered them like princes and princess. So basically she had a life of a golden spoon from her teenage years onwards, but never really address those matters in her earlier years.
But I feel she could totally let go of everything because when the kids are sick, she would not even pop by to check on them even though she's just less than 30 mins drive away. She would always claim that the kids matter to her a lot but I don't really see it via her actions. Thus, I am particularly concern about the Children well being if they are with her.
5. I would not let her guilt trip me on how I am paying attention to myself or doing the things I like. Yes one of the issue was she mentioned I was on the phone too much and phone gaming. Perhaps it was much back then but I don't think I should give it up completely as long as I don't overly indulge in it.
Steve85,
Yes I agree she is lazy. She never had to worry about anything as I had all taken care of for her. I had always been the planner in our relationship and life and I am a plan A,B,C guy, always coming up with contingencies. At first when she mentioned about divorce, I was the one combing through all the information, law and such. While for her, she thought that divorce is just signing on the paper and a ray of golden light will shine on her then start sh!tting rainbow. Initially during the shocked stage, I was still concerned and keep prompting her of what are her plans post divorce? had she considered about her living arrangements, her expenses, this and that? Till I chided her that look, you are the one who wanted a divorce and it seems that I became more knowledgeable in it that you.
Till I can't be bother about considering for her anymore and just map out what I have to do at my end eventually when that happens and how to best settle the kids. I can say that till date, she still has no clue what she's in for. Likewise when she moved out, she took the family car with her, without considering that it is meant for ferrying the kids to school. And when she did that, she was still expecting me to transfer the parking arrangement for her and help her find which is the most convenient parking lots. I told her you had to sort that out yourself! For god sake.
As like mentioned by my lawyer when I gave him a short summary of my sitch, he straight away mentioned she's spoilt. Thus to me, I see her the deadly cocktail of MLC, Wayward and being Spoilt. Which I have a hand in spoiling her too.
ovrrnbw,
No matter where we are, the kind of EA that she had is intolerable. It goes against the fundamental value of moral and sorts, not to mention her role as a mentor to the kid. She could be the mum of that kid. That's why I told her if she knows wth she was doing and what she's putting at stake? I would have been more accepting it was some other better or established guy but, her student? There was a precedence of such being exposed and it was her colleague. Then she was so sad that it happened to her colleague and exclaiming what the hell was she doing. But then nothing surprising, what they once against they are now for it.
She said she enjoyed hanging out with them as she would feel very carefree and without a worry in the world. Trying to catch up on her lost youth, dressing young, getting a tattoo and behaving like what teenagers will do.
Noted on the bold part which LH and you highlighted. I agree that she totally has no respect for me now. It eroded away into resentment and hatred. and as what Sandi mentioned, there would not be love without respect which is very true. I also faced alot of projections and blame shifting. Along with the re-writing of history and, accusations I would say? haha
If you ask me where I am thinking for this marriage to head to.... This is how I feel for now. I actually don't mind her taking time to go and do what she want in life and resolves whichever issues she has. But I will not tolerate if she does anything to dishonor the marriage.
In the process of DB, I try to set the feeling and love for her aside and focus more on my emotional well being first. She is a family member to me, and the mother of my children. Actually she was such an angel back then thus I had rained that much of attention on her. But now she had become who she is, I had to pull back to protect myself. Frankly, I do hope that she would walk through that fog and come to, then start piecing things together. Otherwise, I have to be strong and be the light for our kids. Because as the couple, we have the choice. But the kids, they don't. I just felt very apologetic towards them that they had to go through this.
One thing I know is I want to get back the respect first. Because I know that is required for us to get back together. And even if we don't and I don't have that back, she'll likely give me much [censored] even if we separate.
Last edited by job; 08/08/1911:16 AM. Reason: edited language
M:38 W:38 T:14 M: 12 S:9 S:6 BD: 07/18 W Moved out: 5/19 W Moved in: 7/19 D draft received: 12/19
W moved back and we sleep in the same room though she took the kid's bed while the kids sleep with me.
However ever since she moving back and when we are on the way to work (alone in the car after dropping the kids off), she would raise about the Divorce. This happens once a week for about a month. Happens again this morning. However, I headed the advice here and stop saying that: " she can proceed this is what she wants but not what I wanted". I simply acknowledged it and said ok.
Earlier, she was talking about the high expenditure from our joint family account and I explained to her those where the requirement to keep the family running and I had always been the one overseeing it. After that, she brought the topic to the divorce again. She repeated on the issue of cost of lawyers for both side if she is going to engage for her own lawyer and I get mine. Then she suggest again that why not everything goes through my lawyer and then she will not engage a lawyer and just read through the documentation my lawyer draft and go through the divorce. Her stance, is to save cost.
I told her that sounds funny to me. Why should my Lawyer be the one drafting out these? I engage my lawyer to represent me and to provide me sound advice when I face the situation of divorce, not to draft the documents for divorce. Then she said her lawyer's fees are high. In which, I replied she can just go google and there are a lot of Lawyers that's offering rates even cheaper then my lawyer online. Then she replied in that case, ok.
After that, she went on and ask if I am going over to her parent's place for dinner during the weekend and as there's a stretch of public holiday coming up, how the arrangement of the kids would be. I told her that with regards to her parent's place, I have to see if I have any other appointments. And for the holidays, basically I have programs everyday. So I would likely be available only for 1 day to be around.
But since she came back, she had also mellowed down much and lesser of her previous emotional mood swings and verbal abuses. Thou still some projection and blame shifting, generally it had reduced. I wonder how serious she is about the Divorce now as it's like a repetitive conversation that she always bring up once we are alone and once weekly that I could already predict what she is going to say. Towards my family members, she's behaving the same towards them though maybe still avoiding family events which I never force her to attend as well. when she asked me if it's necessary for her to be there? I always told her up to you if you would like to be there.
For the Vets, what do you'll think of this weekly thing? Temperature testing? or just being plain lazy and still waiting to be served?
I don't know if Sandiz might read this thread and provide some opinions too?
M:38 W:38 T:14 M: 12 S:9 S:6 BD: 07/18 W Moved out: 5/19 W Moved in: 7/19 D draft received: 12/19
Doubt it's temp checking more than likely being lazy. I'm wondering why the two of you are alone in the car? Can't you take separate cars? I'm also wondering why you are still attending each other's family functions? Will you continue that when your D?
