Midlife wife crisis8

[SteveLW]

Wolf, remember DB principles.

You should have left the thing with the loan from her dad like this:

"I paid him $2500 of the final $4000. I do not feel the other $1500 is my responsibility." And left it at that.

When she launched into her reasons for D, listen and validate. Then after a few minutes make an excuse for why you have to go. I know you said you listened and validated, I hope that is true. Because if you pointed out your changes....REALLY REALLY REALLY bad move. This cements in her mind that you are only showing changes to try to save the marriage and that you haven't really changed. People that really changed DO NOT GO AROUND SAYING THEY'VE CHANGED. People that want people to think they changed go around saying it.

They dwell on the negatives because it fits the narrative for what they want to do. No one ever has said "My marriage was so good, but I want to end it!"

[LH19]

Ok. Wolfy I have to beat you up here.

Which then I got roped into a relationship talk. Which I know is a no no here.

You know its a no no but yet you still got roped in and paid the price yet again.

In that talk the reason that she is divorcing me is so ridiculous. I know to her these are real problems but for the average married couple they are nothing.

99% of the problems here are fixable if you get two people committed to fixing them. Your sitch isn't unique wolf.

She said things like when she went back to work at night I didn’t text her which was only twice a year. That she felt like I didn’t love her or care. That when she would come home from work I wouldn’t greet her hello all the time. That I would just yell downstairs hello.

I am sorry you felt that way. You must have felt unloved. Is that how you felt?

The reason I told her I didn’t run downstairs I was in our office make business calls. It wasn’t like I was watching tv or playing video games I was working.

Logic and reason and invaliding her feelings. DB 101

She claims there was times she was crying in bed and I did nothing.

I am sorry you felt that way. You must have felt alone. Is that how you felt. DB 101

Last she said I see the changes but she doesn’t believe they will stay.

I agree with her. What are these changes? That you understand her feelings? Because clearly you don't.

I know I said it before, it’s so sad to me that she wants to break up a family over things that are very fixable.

Yep. You are like a broken record.

Anytime I brought all the ways I have helped her she would dismiss it like they were not important.

Maybe they weren't important to her. Most of them were covert contracts anyway.

How I took on a second job so we could afford the 5 vacations a year. How I would run to the supermarket after work so she didn’t have to food shop.

Maybe vacations weren't important to her and she just wanted more of your time.

Did I have my faults sure. I have owned up to them and improved myself because of that. No m is perfect and there will be ups and downs, but she is so stuck on the negatives in our m then all the good that came from it and the fun we had.

Again, what are these improvements?

Why do they get so stuck on the negative? What triggers this person that use to love is with all their heart paint is as a terrible person and only remember the negative? How does a recognize the changes but then continue on this destructive path?

Because they are unhappy and it is their belief that we are the cause of their unhappiness.

And the biggest one, why does it look like this doesn’t phase them in the least and I am the one suffering real bad?

You are suffering so bad because you choose to suffer.

Why would they want to be a single parent instead of trying to work things out?

So she can haveher freedom, date other men and if that doesn't work out run right back to the wolfster.

I know I need to let go and some days I feel fine and ready to move on, others my mind goes back to all these questions.

Well now that I have answered your questions, maybe you can start to make some real changes and move forwards. You are stuck my friend and will continue to be stuck until you start to love yourself and realize that life is to short for this BS.

[Ready2Change]

Do you understand how your W feels at all? Do you know you have the power to change the way she feels? Drop the rope. Forgive her. Forgive her some more. Forgive yourself. Do not argue with her. Set her free. DROP THE ROPE.


You are not listing to her. You are arguing with her. If you love her, you will stop arguing. You will listen to understand her.


I was completely ready for MsR2C to spew her hatred to me...it never came. Do not push your wife further away.

[IHCLACS]

R2C is right about the arguing. Stop arguing, and start listening like you were talking to an unattached friendly cashier at the store. You know. The kind of interaction that has little impact on your emotions.

Wolf I am going to play devils advocate here. If you changed everything about yourself that W complained about in 24hrs, and made it stick. Would it make a difference? Its too late anyway. Right? For her and the marriage anyway. There is free will and free choice. People do because they want to do. Name one or two things W has validated about your experiences about the M positive or negative lately. Name something, anything nice, selfless, or caring or considerate your W has done for you recently. Name one kind deed your W has done, or has acted compassionately about, or accountable for for the downfall of the M. Don't you see? She is not your W any longer. She is not the person you married. This is all about her right now. So only when and if she brings things up. Keep it about her. If she wanted back in tomorrow. Would you take her back without her showing you some kind of proof or change on her part? Futhermore? Why would you want all this drama in your life. Another thing I realised as of lately. Alpha males never complain. They just do. They just handle, they just are. They are not riddled with emotion because they are too busy living for themselves, regardless of who is in and out of your life. You are the prize. Remember that. You come first. After your kids. I know it's easy to get attached to memories, but you need to save yourself. I finally came to the realization that I wouldn't take anyone back that would want to leave me get away from me and not want to be with me. That they would be the ones that decided to leave and that's their choice to do so. That most likely there will be only two reasons for them to come back either their first option plan A didn't work out for them. or that they had a considerably serious change of heart and they would have to demonstrate over time with more than just words, but actions. Be done with it and get on with your life for you. Maybe she will come around one day and maybe she won't but I wouldn't wait or expect it.

[AnotherStander]

Wolf, the advice on this page from Steve, LH, R2C and IH is golden. Read it and really take it to heart.

The fighting has got to stop, that would be a huge 180. Listen and validate, that's it. Nothing more. If she says "Wolf, you are single-handedly responsible for the decline of civilization and you are why a meteorite struck the earth and killed the dinosaurs and you are also why I was unhappy when I opened my Christmas presents in the 3rd grade and didn't get the Happy Donna Doll I asked for" then your response should be "that must have been difficult for you, it sounds like you are sad and frustrated, is that how you feel?" Just listen and validate no matter how outrageous her claims seem to be. Because anything else will just to a fight, because right now she's programmed herself to escalate.

Recognize and identify what you're doing wrong and stop yourself before repeating it. It is very VERY difficult to do this, but do it you must. Years ago someone that posted here used to say that when he was interacting with his W he would picture me on his shoulder telling him what to say and do and what not to. Sure that was flattering to hear, but more than that it's a BRILLIANT technique. I'm not saying picture me in particular, but just try to imagine the vets here collectively perched on your shoulder coaching you when you are around W. Maybe that will help you break out of the cycle.

[Wolfman]

Steve thank you for that. I am working hard to be DB. Sometimes I just get caught up in the moment. Like with the money issue. I have to be better at walking away sooner.

LH I love the 2x4s. It really helps. I wish I had a microphone and an earpiece so you could tell me what to say. Every time I read what I should have said I always say to myself why didn’t I think of that. I validate but you and some of the others on here say it so much better. LH you ask what are the changes. I’m just going to list them: I go to IC, I barely yell anymore, I really listen to what she says, I keep better track of the kids activities that a lot of times now she asks me what they have and which day, I don’t complain about the house, I don’t complain about money, upbeat and happy all the time. She has made comments about a few of these things that she has noticed. One thing you said LH I really don’t understand. You said I suffer because I choose to suffer. I am not choosing it at all. I try very hard everyday to find positive things and to stay focused on that. But my mind goes back to the memories of the past. I keep telling myself to leave them there but they come back. I tell myself I have women hitting on me and there are plenty of fish in the sea but then my mind will say I don’t want those “fish”

A lot of my post just got cut off. I have more to say but gottta run and I will address the other comments.

[LH19]

I love the 2x4s. It really helps. I wish I had a microphone and an earpiece so you could tell me what to say. Every time I read what I should have said I always say to myself why didn’t I think of that. I validate but you and some of the others on here say it so much better.

It takes a lot of practice. Try it with your kids, especially your daughter

you ask what are the changes. I’m just going to list them: I go to IC, I barely yell anymore, I really listen to what she says, I keep better track of the kids activities that a lot of times now she asks me what they have and which day, I don’t complain about the house, I don’t complain about money, upbeat and happy all the time. She has made comments about a few of these things that she has noticed.

Come on Wolfy. These are either exaggerations of the truth or things you are doing to get her back. We have just established that you don't really listen to her.

One thing you said LH I really don’t understand. You said I suffer because I choose to suffer.

Are you healthy? Are your kids healthy? Do you have friends and family? Do you have a job? Do you have a roof over your head? Do you have food to eat?

I try very hard everyday to find positive things and to stay focused on that. But my mind goes back to the memories of the past. I keep telling myself to leave them there but they come back.

Stay in the present Wolf. Yesterday is gone and tomorrow isn't here yet.

I tell myself I have women hitting on me and there are plenty of fish in the sea but then my mind will say I don’t want those “fish”

It's because you are not ready. You will be in the future. Then you will realize how ridiculous it was for you to put up with the bs.

Have you read No Mr. Nice Guy?

[IHCLACS]

I was going to say the same thing as LH about the arguing. If there is one thing you taught me Wolfie. For example. If your daughter started throwing a tantrum. Would you yell back or argue with her? Your W is no different. Just an oversized adult version with higher priorities and needs of her own, whether delusional emotional factual, logical or not. Still her truth.

I'll give you two instances of my sich. After a convo with W last week. I told my w that if I ever stop yelling, and stop arguing. That would be a time to be concerned. She looked at me like what do you mean you're not going to do anything stupid are you? I was like no. The day I stop arguing and fighting is the day Im no longer emotionally vested in this. She says to me. "You must have read my mind. That's what I was thinking the last year or so."

This week I slipped. I was taking S1 shirt off, having a little difficulty getting his arm out of the sleeve, she stepped in to take over control, or so I thought, but according to her just trying to help, and I snapped at her to "mind her business" She knows I don't like controlling behaviors from anyone in attempt to override or disrespect me or my abilities. She's done that before with me in front of company with loading S1 into car seat before because of a twisted seat belt. Tried to vebalkt make me into a fool in front of company. I don't like people grabbing stuff or people for that matter out of my hands whether they are trying to be helpful or not. (I've had crazy past GF's try to grab car steering wheel out of my hands while driving.) I apoligized for snapping, and stated next time she wants to help just ask. I will work on my perception with that.

The point being is choose not to argue. Choose to not emotionally engage when and if provoked. Choose to walk away if the convo goes sideways. State why that is a boundary and you only do it and say it once. From there on forward you just do it. No need to explain. Choose to set boundaries for bad behavior. Choose to remain in control of yourself. Choose Civility, to validate, and not take it personally anymore. She isn't your wife anymore. You are not emotionally, physically, financially, attached to her anymore. Choose to listen impartially without involving your perception or opinion unless asked for it.
They will sense it. I think i am at the beginning of finally understanding this and implementing it a little too late, but oh well, its for me. Its for me to become less emotionally reactive as time goes on for me. To be a better person, and less "emotionally abusive." There will be times of intentional disrespect and unintentional disrespect and it's going to be hard to distinguish the difference and not become reactive to it. This is what's in any relationship whether with W or someone else. It's hard not to argue with your own point of view when that's all you know. You have to try and see from the other side and find the solution, rather than dig in your heels to fight for what you think is right.

[Ready2Change]

Your response should be "that must have been difficult for you, it sounds like you are sad and frustrated, is that how you feel?" Just listen and validate no matter how outrageous her claims seem to be.

This will work every time. Memorize it. Practice it. Practice it with your D. Practice it in the car by yourself.

Just change the emotions as needed. Frustrated is one of my favorite words.

Ask yourself "How would I feel if that happened to me?"

Scared, Happy, Worried

[Wolfman]

The fighting has got to stop, that would be a huge 180. Listen and validate, that's it. Nothing more. If she says "Wolf, you are single-handedly responsible for the decline of civilization and you are why a meteorite struck the earth and killed the dinosaurs and you are also why I was unhappy when I opened my Christmas presents in the 3rd grade and didn't get the Happy Donna Doll I asked for" then your response should be "that must have been difficult for you, it sounds like you are sad and frustrated, is that how you feel?" Just listen and validate no matter how outrageous her claims seem to be. Because anything else will just to a fight, because right now she's programmed herself to escalate.

I really like what you wrote here because if she did say something like that I would argue it. So this really gets me to understand what she is saying and just validate those bad feelings. I am going to post this to see if I did the quote the right way. I have more to say.