JoeJoe, Steve, Over, Tryhard, nice healthy debate on better wording and merits of actions instead. I appreciate the multiple POVs. It really helps me sort through this mess and gives me different perspectives and options to consider. I’m going to remain patient (maybe call it stalling as Steve wrote) until I’m comfortable with my decision.
There has been a new development that I’ll probably share sometime today once I have more time to type.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
AS, I do like your suggestion of having a draft settlement agreement prepared when I deliver the message. It shows action has been taken, not just words. The wording is a bit too business like for me though. It's important to me to tell her that I'm doing this out of respect for myself and that I accept her decision to not work on the MR. I feel that must be said for closure.
That's fine just try not to get too emotional during the convo. "Businesslike" is actually a good attitude to strive for, because she will realize you're serious and not just trying to trick her into getting back together.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
AS, I must say that you have a knack for getting the LBS to think long and hard before making a major decision. There have been a few occasions where I’ve read your posts and put the brakes on steps I thought I was ready to take. I appreciate that and I can see you are a strong supporter of giving these sitches time and letting them play out. Probably because you know that these affairs don’t last 9 times out of 10.
Quite right about affairs, they rarely last long. But I don't say that to suggest you bide your time to see if the affair peters out. It's really just to make sure your mind is in the right place. For me it took a good 18 months to get to the point where I knew for sure I was ready for D. There were times before that that I -thought- I was ready, but I was still going back and forth. There's no rush, just take your time and make sure you are ready. When you can think about D without anger or pain or sadness then you're getting there.
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I am done with the BS and perpetual lies. This is not a trick and I am okay with the outcome of D at this point. I haven’t seen genuine change in her or desire to ever want to be with me again. Since BD, I have confirmed at least 3 PAs (and suspect at least 2 more), online dating with a few other men, sexting fantasies with people she’s never met, gaslighting, physical separation, loss of my kids 50% of the time, cake eating, and the selfishness persists. I just ask myself why would I elect to continue a MR with this person. Have you ever seen a WW come back and want to R with a track record such as hers?
As hard as it may be to believe, yes I have! But usually by the time they come around the LBS is done with them. For many WW's it's almost like a mental illness. They behave in ways completely out of character with who they were. Many of them eventually get "back to normal" and often can't even believe themselves that they did what they did. Often the damage is so bad that no matter how humble they are when they return it's not enough for the LBS. The LBS is understandably skeptical that they are really "healed" and won't just do it all over again.
This is a potentially MAJOR update in my sitch. Vets all said that WW had to hit rock bottom and feel real loss before anything would change. It's possible that just happened over the weekend.
Some background, W for the most part only associates with two other women since BD, divorced BFF and a mutual friend that has a very rocky MR herself. W went out to dinner with divorced BFF on Saturday night and received a call from our mutual friend saying that her husband was riding his motorcycle, got in an accident, and was being airlifted to the hospital.
W was debating whether or not to leave divorced BFF and go to the hospital to support her friend and she chose not to go. In W's defense, details were very sparse as she described it as to the severity of his condition. A few hours later some initial test results came back and it was determined that he was essentially brain dead. W texted me to let me know what had happened. She then called and we spoke for a few minutes about the tragic events and how awful our friend must be feeling.
Sunday morning, W decided she wanted to go to the hospital to be with her friend. However, she wasn't up for seeing visitors. Final test results came back and he was declared dead.
W called me to discuss how we could help out. She sounded distraught and somewhat frantic on the phone. The mutual friend has a S and D about the same age as our kids and W suggested that we watch them this week. She wanted to stay at my house and bring them over because she doesn't have enough space at her place. I thought about this for a minute and said I'm okay with that as long as you can respect my boundaries. She asked which boundaries are those and after a pause I replied not contacting OM by text or call on the property. She immediately responded no problem. She asked what other boundaries. I said that's the primary one I'm concerned about and again she immediately said no problem. Although, she did seem annoyed that I had to state the boundary and she started to say that I don't understand but this wasn't the time to get into it with the stress she's under. I told her well maybe at some point you could help me understand and she said sure.
W came over to feed her horse and I talked with her about the accident. She was extremely broken up about her friend and not being there for her. I could tell that she regrets the decision terribly and she asked me point blank if I though she was a bad friend for not going. I validated then said that she made the best decision she could with the information she had available. We continued to discuss what happened, I mostly listened to her and continued validating.
W took our kids to her place and she sent me a series of texts about her friend's relatives watching the kids so they wouldn't be coming to our place. Near the end of the text exchange I wrote "I'm glad you told me and appreciate you being honest about your feelings. I hope you can get some sleep. Good night." She replied "Good night. Sorry. I am using my typical avoidance behavior but being unconscious is my only reprieve from this overwhelming ugliness I feel inside me." I did not respond.
Expectations are very low, but this tragic death seems to have triggered something in my W that's opened her eyes to see the WW behavior. I'm probably not following DB techniques so well right now, but in light of the recent events and loss of life, there are more important matters at hand. A tragedy like this really makes you contemplate your life, your purpose, your dreams, etc. and shows you that life is short. Do you really want to be pining away to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you when it can all be over in an instant? Or is it worth it to continue fighting for that person when you realize they could be gone overnight and they are what is most important to you?
This takes us up through Sunday night. More to follow tomorrow...
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
That is a tragic story and that reminds me more and more why I am not submitting to my urges to buy a motorcycle while being the father to two young children.
I guess I'm not following your rock bottom and feeling of loss analogy. This happened to your Ws friend not your W. Your W has felt zero loss. After everything she has done to you and your children, you can't muster up the strength to tell her she can't keep her horse at your house.
Right now she gets to run around with other men, see her horse and her children whenever she wants and knows you'll be waiting there with open arms if she so chooses to stop. I know you do a lot of research on this board to help in your situation. I suggest you start reading up on attraction. Why your w is attracted to men she can't have her way with.
Terrible decision curtis to try and control her with the OM boundary. First, you have no way to enforce that boundary. What are you going to do demand she show her phone to you on a regular interval?? I continue to see LBSs struggle with trying to control their WAS/WS. You can't. And when you try you cement to the WAS/WS that what they are doing is the right decision. Most WAS/WS are rebelling against control, especially WWs!! Imagine if you just agreed to letting her stay there with the kids and friends' kids? Imagine how much further you would have gotten, especially since it never came to fruition anyway!
The other reason you trying to control her is a bad idea, because WWs especially want what is forbidden. By forbidding her to do that, it makes her want to do it more. If she ever stays at your house again, you can bet she will contact him to spite you.
As far as this: I'm probably not following DB techniques so well right now
ALWAYS BE DBING!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The other reason you trying to control her is a bad idea, because WWs especially want what is forbidden. By forbidding her to do that, it makes her want to do it more. If she ever stays at your house again, you can bet she will contact him to spite you.
What to expound on this, curtis, since you may not have read much about my own sitch. During my 2005 sitch, I had put spyware on our home PC, that is how I caught my W's EA. She sent him a no contact email. Immediately said she wanted to fix our marriage. However, her heart was far from me. She was "in love" with him, or at least this trumped up image of him in her head.
In the weeks that followed, she felt like a caged animal. She started sending him email despite the fact that I could monitor the activity. It was like a big "screw you and your rules" to me.
I came home one night, went into the office, and uninstalled the spyware. I told her "you are free to do whatever you want to do."
The result? She no longer wanted to communicate with him, and that died out almost immediately. She committed back to our marriage, and overtime proved that commitment through consistent behavior.
curtis, drop all control efforts. You are still trying to control what you cannot. And it will work against you. Further, your WW isn't going to change over a weekend. Hope is good, expectations are bad. And I see expectations in your update. Her behavior will have to be consistent over a long period of time before you will ever be able to trust that she is having second thoughts related to her choices. Not a few moments of emotion over a weekend.
You were going to take some pretty strong actions last we talked. How are you coming on those?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Terrible decision curtis to try and control her with the OM boundary.
Steve, the boundary was not to control her, it was to protect myself. I went through hell when she was living with me and contacting OM in front of me. I was willing to help out the other family, but not willing to put up with crap that affects my emotions. The result, she has respected my boundary and left her phone in the car the past two nights.
Something has changed, it could be temporary, but I’ll expound on my update about last night.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
That is a tragic story and that reminds me more and more why I am not submitting to my urges to buy a motorcycle while being the father to two young children.
I bought a bike when I was 21 and had it for 2 years. Never any real close calls, but I quickly realized it wasn’t worth the risk. Too many drivers that aren’t looking out for you. Always had to be in such a heightened sense of awareness with your surroundings which took away from the exhilaration. I wouldn’t even think about it with kids.
Originally Posted by LH19
I guess I'm not following your rock bottom and feeling of loss analogy. This happened to your Ws friend not your W. Your W has felt zero loss. After everything she has done to you and your children, you can't muster up the strength to tell her she can't keep her horse at your house.
Yes, this happened to her friend, but the loss as I’m seeing it is W’s sense of self and realization on what she’s become. The fog is lifting, I don’t think this is the time for tough love. More details to follow in my next update.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
Curtis, I'm not really following your logic here, are you saying that you think your W might be having second thoughts about leaving you after seeing how upset her friend was over losing her H? That might be true but I suspect that she'll return right back to being a normal WAS/WW after a little time passes and she gets over the initial shock. I wouldn't change a thing if I were you, just keep on DB'ing.
That is a tragic story and that reminds me more and more why I am not submitting to my urges to buy a motorcycle while being the father to two young children.
I bought a bike when I was 21 and had it for 2 years. Never any real close calls, but I quickly realized it wasn’t worth the risk. Too many drivers that aren’t looking out for you. Always had to be in such a heightened sense of awareness with your surroundings which took away from the exhilaration. I wouldn’t even think about it with kids.
That's your choice of course. I've been riding 48 years and on the street for 40 of those years. No accidents. I am hyper aware of everything going on around me when riding. It does not take away from the exhilaration for me. There are 4 to 5 thousand motorcycle deaths a year in the US. There are approximately the same number of pedestrian deaths and swimming deaths. By most people's logic we should all probably stop walking and swimming too. There are 3 times as many fall deaths, so for heaven's sake don't climb on anything.
Originally Posted by curtis7
Yes, this happened to her friend, but the loss as I’m seeing it is W’s sense of self and realization on what she’s become. The fog is lifting, I don’t think this is the time for tough love. More details to follow in my next update.
I don't think her fog is lifting, you're misinterpreting her emotional reaction to this. Don't let it lead you to bad decisions. It's fine to support her and listen and validate if she wants to talk about it. But she'll probably be getting plenty of support from OM too, so keep that in mind.
