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Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: LH19] #2861468
08/15/19 12:52 PM
08/15/19 12:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 50
St Louis, MO
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Rick71 Offline OP
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Rick71  Offline OP
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Yea, the friend zone stinks!! Lately I've preferred the days she's gone over her being home, I feel like the ways she's acting around me is fake with all the conversation, because when she's gone at her friends, there's no contact.


So you think I should give her a letter explaining where things are going for me and selling the house and moving on is our best option? That way she can prepare for herself and find somewhere to go. I say a letter because that way I can lay it all out with out interruption, plus I'm not good with confrontation in person. I always leave things unsaid because I lose my train of thought.


Me 48, W 47
T30, M24
D22, S18
BD 7/6/2019
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861485
08/15/19 03:37 PM
08/15/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,022
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LH19 Online
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LH19  Online
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R,

First off letters are not a good idea so let's put that to rest right now.

Second what are you confronting her about? Are you doing this as a way to wake her up? If so it won't work and will likely blow up in your face.

You have to have infinite patience if you want this to work out.

Last edited by LH19; 08/15/19 03:39 PM.

M:50 W:45
T:22 M:16
S:14 D:10

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861490
08/15/19 03:56 PM
08/15/19 03:56 PM
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Posts: 1,979
Missouruh
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ovrrnbw Offline
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Missouruh
Lol why do the LBS's always want to write a letter? I swear we are a sappy bunch!

What you should be doing is enjoying this beautiful weather we have in town right now. GAL GAL GAL!!!! When I didn't know what else to do I'd go to Main St in St Charles and run and run and run and look at the pretty river and pretty girls and read a book and get good food and just soak up life. And then of course I'd go home and hurt again, but still.


H 33
W 28
BD 3/12/18

Married 3 years
Together 7 years

Working on the R and on me - Spring 19
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861498
08/15/19 04:19 PM
08/15/19 04:19 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 854
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unchien Offline
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unchien  Offline
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Rick,

You mentioned an apology letter a couple weeks ago, now a new letter.

NO LETTERS!!!

I learned this the hard way, it is ingrained into the fabric of my being.

Originally Posted by Rick71
I say a letter because that way I can lay it all out with out interruption, plus I'm not good with confrontation in person. I always leave things unsaid because I lose my train of thought.

You want to avoid confrontation by writing a letter, because you are bad with confrontation. I've been there too.

2x4 - it's time to work on your conflict avoidance. The instinct to write a letter is a maladaptive coping mechanism that is holding back all of your relationships. Writing letters is conflict avoidance. It is not healthy for your MR, or any relationship for that matter.

Let me guess: When you and your W have conflict, in the heat of the moment, she starts talking, and your mind is racing. You are trying to listen to her, and you start to feel overwhelmed and your brain locks up. You start to feel like your truth carries less weight than hers. After the fact you are frustrated and perhaps angry about this. You want to go back and fix it.

So you want to write a letter and lay it all out there. That way you can organize your thoughts in a nice structured flow.

It... does... not... work.

I would go so far as to say the act of letter writing is controlling. You want to structure everything perfectly because you want to control how your W interprets the message. You want her to "get it."

I did exactly this! it doesn't work. It's not about your W, it is about basic human communication. Up your game, work on yourself. You'll be glad you did it, it will improve ALL of your relationships.

It is super difficult to get over this hump. There's lots of advice here on improving conflict avoidance. Validation is a start. Ultimately I think this is about getting in touch with your values and your needs, seeing them as equally valid as anybody else's, feeling secure, and then handling conflict starts to become second nature. Letting go of expectations of the outcome of a conversation -- also a must.

Incidentally, the other problem with a letter is the permanence of it. You will hear caution about creating evidence which could be legally problematic, your W can read it over and over for the rest of her life, etc. But fundamentally I hope you can see the problem I have with the instinct to write a letter, which is that you are choosing to continue a poor style of communication rather than work on your own issues.

No letters. Do it.


M: 11, T: 15
S7, D5, D3
MC1: 09/2018-01/2019
BD: 06/12/19
MC2: 06/12/19-??
S: 06/29/19-??
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861503
08/15/19 04:42 PM
08/15/19 04:42 PM
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CWarrior Offline
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Originally Posted by "unchien"
Ultimately I think this is about getting in touch with your values and your needs, seeing them as equally valid as anybody else's, feeling secure, and then handling conflict starts to become second nature.


A conversation I had backpacking with my partner.

Me, stops to enjoy the sound of a waterfall.
Her, wants to continue
Her: You always choose the pace. I feel like you're controlling us, you're holding the trip hostage.
Me: You're free to go ahead. I'll catch up. I control me. You control you.
Her: But I want to hike with you.
Me: I gotta do me. You gotta do you.

This simultaneously asserted my control over me while making no attempts to control her.

Originally Posted by "OverRainbow"
GAL GAL GAL!!!! When I didn't know what else to do I'd go to Main St in St Charles and run and run and run and look at the pretty river and pretty girls and read a book and get good food and just soak up life.


Rick, GAL and Detach help immensely. My happiness jumped from 5's to 8's. I went salsa dancing last night. I'm doing martial arts today. I went backpacking this weekend. Each time I thought of ending my relationship, I asked, "What would I do next?" The answer usually was something other than Tinder. That helped me find the patience to wait and see where my sitch would end up, and improved the outcome.

Originally Posted by "OverRainbow"
And then of course I'd go home and hurt again, but still.

It may feel fake or challenging at first, and there will be low moments.

Of course, you do you. If you feel your life would be better without her--take some time--then go for it.

Last edited by CWarrior; 08/15/19 04:48 PM.

My partner of 2yrs left and moved away. Three months later we reconciled as a family living separately. She says she's committed to making it work, to try to return home, and to be an 'us' forever.
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861512
08/15/19 05:28 PM
08/15/19 05:28 PM
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Posts: 50
St Louis, MO
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Rick71 Offline OP
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Rick71  Offline OP
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St Louis, MO
I get it, no letters. It wasn't meant to be a wake up call, I guess I don't want to get blindsided if she leaves and I get stuck with a house payment I can't afford. I figured laying it out that we either work on the M or go out separate ways, I could be better prepared with selling the house.

I guess my mind had been all over the place and my current frame of thinking was that I'd rather her be gone than to deal with the way we currently are, married friends.

If it weren't for everyone here, I probably would have written the letter and caused more problems. I appreciate all the input from everyone to keep me on track. So for now, I'll just let things go as they are and get busier with GAL.


Me 48, W 47
T30, M24
D22, S18
BD 7/6/2019
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861514
08/15/19 05:44 PM
08/15/19 05:44 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 854
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unchien Offline
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unchien  Offline
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Rick,

Are you educated about your financial rights in the state you live in, should your W decide to leave?

I might be misreading your post, but it sounds like part of your fear is related to not understanding fully how that scenario would play out. If so, I'd suggest rather than going to your W first, educate yourself on the process so you understand how the various scenarios might play out.

This might mean getting a consult from a L or FA. Many offer free 30-60 minute consults. Obviously if you choose this path I would recommend discretion.


M: 11, T: 15
S7, D5, D3
MC1: 09/2018-01/2019
BD: 06/12/19
MC2: 06/12/19-??
S: 06/29/19-??
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861515
08/15/19 05:52 PM
08/15/19 05:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 50
St Louis, MO
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Rick71 Offline OP
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Rick71  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by unchien



2x4 - it's time to work on your conflict avoidance. The instinct to write a letter is a maladaptive coping mechanism that is holding back all of your relationships. Writing letters is conflict avoidance. It is not healthy for your MR, or any relationship for that matter.



Unchien, I believe you're right it being conflict avoidance. I never thought of it that way.


Originally Posted by unchien


Let me guess: When you and your W have conflict, in the heat of the moment, she starts talking, and your mind is racing. You are trying to listen to her, and you start to feel overwhelmed and your brain locks up. You start to feel like your truth carries less weight than hers. After the fact you are frustrated and perhaps angry about this. You want to go back and fix it.



This seems to be the way our arguments would go in the past. I do have more to work on with myself than I first thought.


Me 48, W 47
T30, M24
D22, S18
BD 7/6/2019
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861526
08/15/19 07:05 PM
08/15/19 07:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,503
Colorado
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Ready2Change Offline
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Originally Posted by Rick71
So you think I should give her a letter explaining where things are going for me and selling the house and moving on is our best option? That way she can prepare for herself and find somewhere to go. I say a letter because that way I can lay it all out with out interruption, plus I'm not good with confrontation in person. I always leave things unsaid because I lose my train of thought.


Actions speak volumes more than words. You body language and tone are more important than the words. 80% of what is communicated is through body language and tone. Maintaining eye contact is also important.


The words I gave you need to be said in person. More important, you have to believe them 100%. In reality, you do not need to say them, you need to live them.


Each of these words was picked very carefully, based off of some very wise DBers:
H:"W, I have thought about what you said the other day, and I agree. This is not working for me either. I think it is best that you start looking for a place to live."

After you say these words, you shut up and listen very closely. You remember every word she says. You validate. You remember HER body language.

And finally, this is not a confrontation. This is moving forward out of limbo. This is real communication with W.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"

Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time
Re: Not sure what to do after ILYBNILWY [Re: Rick71] #2861568
08/16/19 01:54 AM
08/16/19 01:54 AM
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Posts: 50
St Louis, MO
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Rick71 Offline OP
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Rick71  Offline OP
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St Louis, MO
Thank you LH19, ovrrnbw, unchien, CWarrior and Ready2Change. I need to continue reading over all this and let it sink in. I think I need to take a step back, stop over thinking everything and do a better job at GAL and detaching. I don't think I'm going to do anything just yet about her moving out. I need to get my head straight before making that decision.

And no letter writing...


Me 48, W 47
T30, M24
D22, S18
BD 7/6/2019
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