Steve, I'm in the process and I'm not silly. I know I need to protect myself. I have no worries that I'll end up with something fair.
So on another note, things just keep getting weirder. Day three of hard DBing and she is really reacting. Trying to pick fights but I'm not having a bar. Tried to get me to do an errand. I said "no". Said she is "depressed". I said I'm sorry she feels that way, she says "don't ever say sorry again". But then . . .
I get a very polite, soft SMS to pick her and the kids on the way home from work. I delay but respond yes (I feel like an ahole if I don't, it's really on the way home". And then I see this email:
"I’ve been thinking we should talk about our marriage together. I’ve been frustrated and I’m sure you are too that every or many conversation we have is either rushed interrupted or late at night which doesn’t do our marriage any justice. Are you willing to have a scheduled conversation over dinner. I have nothing I really feel like discussing just a sense of no communication for a long time, do you agree?"
She's angry and picking fights, we aren't rushed! I'm GALing and she's going to bed early so, of course, no time! And I didn't realise we still have a marriage anymore since she said clearly to me "I'm single". If she has nothing to discuss then why dinner?
Now I'm surprised about this. I will not respond right away and I will feign ignorance if she asks "Did you read my email?" when I pick her up. My thoughts on responses are:
What? We have a marriage still? I thought you said we are separated and you are single?
If you have nothing to talk about then what is the point of dinner?
How about an agenda on discussion points so I know what we will talk about? (Her pro-D IC told her this one)
I'll think about it
No
Yes
Yes, a good idea. Communication is always good.
OK
A good sign I guess, but I feel it needs to be "played" or addressed carefully. I know what I want (marriage) and I know what conditions are required (respect from W, W must attend IC, MC for us). But I feel it also risks going pear-shaped as well.
[*]What? We have a marriage still? I thought you said we are separated and you are single? [*]If you have nothing to talk about then what is the point of dinner?
These sound overly aggressive, implying faults (she said single then married, her proposal has no point).
Originally Posted by Josh T
[*]How about an agenda on discussion points so I know what we will talk about? (Her pro-D IC told her this one)
Well, I just said good idea, nominated a date, and a restaurant with one alternative. You know, I'm telling her this, not asking where she wants to go.
So I have no expectations about what she "doesn't want to discuss" and no idea where this is heading. It could very well be about Big D details and W presents property settlement details. It could be about trying to piece because she now realizes what Big D means. Who knows? I'm not reading into any of her positive or negative behaviors in the past week. No expectations right? All I know is that she has suddenly gone soft in her communication.
What I'm clear about is that if I'm staying in the friend zone, then it means I continue to DB. It means that if she moves out, I go dark. It means I want to keep the house. I will be perfectly clear if the convo goes down that path where I want to go.
If it means piecing, then the convo is about that which is not negotiable.
Josh - My Spidey senses are tingling but I don't want to project my sitch onto yours. Below will be a bunch of random disorganized thoughts:
As best as you can, try to go into this conversation with an open mind. It's impossible to script out every possible scenario, so the more comfortable you are in your own skin, and how you feel, you will respond naturally.
Do more listening than talking.
If the topic is D, keep it simple, along the lines of "I understand you want to D, that is not what I want, I prefer to work on the MR, but I will not stand in your way." Then, you are free to walk out. I used this line when my W asked for trial separation, it was really good to have this one script so I did not fall apart. You also don't even need to prepare now for this scenario.
If she brings up details about the D, I would also walk. She stated she had nothing specific to talk about. This would be catching her in a lie. You don't need to be bombarded.
It might just be she senses your DB'ing and is trying to feel out what is going on with you. Here is where I will bring in my sitch. I ended up DB'ing for about 6 weeks before I got the official BD. During that time, my W assumed I was mad, angry, losing my mind (for spending my time on hobbies)... all kinds of things. My W thought I was going to BD her with a D request! You can't control it. So be prepared your W may come out of left field with some crazy stuff. Rather than get offended, or try to correct her -- listen, validate, and, most importantly, maintain a PMA. You could even say, "Yeah, I've been trying to sort things out and work on my happiness and be the best Josh I can be" -- maybe that's too corny, but my point is spin it as positive, but also as *not about her*. Just be positive and don't defend. And don't go off on a wordy tangent about how badly you want to work on the MR and save things. Keep it short and simple.
If she brings up piecing, I would make sure not to be over-eager. I also suggest you don't go very far, perhaps just suggest going to MC full stop. I fear if you ask for MC + W in IC + W respects you, that's going to completely drive her away. You can request she goes to IC later, if you end up in MC. And respect is commanded not demanded, and would come much much later. Anyhow, I would spend the least amount of time thinking about this -- if she wants to work on things, say you do too but think you need the help of MC.
Finally, one of the more likely scenarios, she just wants to talk about the lack of communication the last few days. You could say, "Yeah, honey, I also feel like there has been a distance between us. How does it make you feel? I feel kind of sad about it." This might end up a little bit of a dance, because you don't know where she stands in the MR. It's really up to you... you could say "Yeah I feel like we are having unnecessary conflict" (i.e., she is picking fights). I don't know... if she shows some sort of willingness to WORK on communication, I think that is an opportunity to reconnect. If she's just there to complain about YOU not communicating, that's different. If communication has been a huge problem, use the opportunity, but I think you are right to be wary about her intentions.
Final piece of advice: Relax. Don't go into this thinking "This is a huge moment" even though it could be. You can handle anything that comes your way, Josh. That is AMOAFWL.
Some great advice and yeah I need mentally to prepare. Been running through all the scenarios in my head, questions, and responses without expectations.
Then something happened that I didn't expect . . .
