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Link to Part 1:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2841771
Link to Part 2:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2842502
Link to Part 3:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2845184
Link to Part 4:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2850893

Summary to date:
W was unhappy in 2018 and probably a few years earlier about her lack of career advancement, responsibilities of being a mother and wife, and lack of connection in our MR. She became involved in an EA with a co-worker in August. She was going to an IC without my knowledge and came to the determination that I was the cause of her unhappiness. BD and IHS in November. I made all of the classic mistakes of begging, pleading, doing all the chores (super husband), etc. She became obsessed with her physical appearance. Spending money on facial treatments, anti-aging creams, manicures, pedicures, etc. She was seduced by a 25 year old pickup artist (OM1) at a downtown bar and had a PA a couple weeks later which evolved into a limerant relationship. W went deeply underground with her smartphone when I found out and confronted. She has experienced the highest of highs when OM contacts her and the lowest of lows when ignored. She is full blown GGW and is currently cycling between at least 5 OM. W has distanced herself from anyone of strong moral character and primarily interacts with a recently divorced woman that became her BFF last year. W bought her own house and moved out in early April. We have arranged 50/50 custody of our kids, S8 and D4, rotating every few days.

I would characterize myself of experiencing PTSD symptoms after BD/PA discovery for about 4 months. Way too much pursuit, pressure, and R talk. I became obsessed with snooping and trying to identify and over-analyze everything that went wrong in our MR that led us to this state. In doing so, I pushed her farther and farther away. I've heard just about every WW catch phrase from her along with way. She has re-written our MR history and focuses on all the negatives. I've been doing a much better job of GAL and detaching since late February. Contact right now is like a business relationship, mostly limited to co-parenting and logistics. I confronted her in early May about no longer living in an open marriage. Her response was basically laughter and she said if you want a divorce, then she's all for it. That night she sent me an email requesting that I gather all of my financial records and decide what items I want to keep by the end of May. She hasn't mentioned it since.

The EAs/PAs with multiple OM continue. When we do interact, she generally treats me nice. I am securely in the friend zone as Iíve allowed her to cake eat this entire time with her horse at our marital home. I am living in limbo which [censored], but Iím having a great time with my kids when they are with me. Also getting out doing activities I enjoy and spending time with friends.

I feel that Iím at a crossroads, some days I just want to file for D because I donít trust her and donít know if I ever will be able to again. Other days I think maybe I need to continue giving her Time and Space. My son specifically asked me not to quit. So, Iím torn between doing whatís right and in line with my morals versus my kids hopes and my dreams of what a happy future our family could have if she ended her affairs and wanted to R.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Originally Posted by curtis7
I feel that Iím at a crossroads, some days I just want to file for D because I donít trust her and donít know if I ever will be able to again. Other days I think maybe I need to continue giving her Time and Space. My son specifically asked me not to quit. So, Iím torn between doing whatís right and in line with my morals versus my kids hopes and my dreams of what a happy future our family could have if she ended her affairs and wanted to R.


curtis, first, why wouldn't you file for D?

Your S8 asked you not to quit. Hmmm. What if he asked you to drink poison? Would you do it? Or would you explain to him how detrimental that would be? Now I am not saying to tell your S8 how bad his mom is. But sitting him down to explain that your life has to move on and he will understand one day would be the better approach.

Because you have hopes and dreams of what a happy future with your family could be IF she ended her affairs and wanted to R? And she couldn't do that after you file for D? During the D? After the D? That isn't an excuse.

Further, you don't want to R with HER, at least as she is now, you have a romantic delusion of HER as she used to be. sandi says "the girl you married is gone!" You have to assume she is never coming back. Even if this multiple cheating version wanted to R, could you trust that it was because she was her old self again? Or because she likes having her horses (cake) there??

You are at a crossroads only because you are stalling. You know what to do. You need to move on. I do not advocate most LBSs filing for D because that is doing the WAS's dirty work. But you are not in the same sitch as most. I'd think about it.


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Final thought. We teach people how to treat us. And our kids learn from us. What are your S & D learning by the way you are handling your sitch?

Fast-forward 20 years. And one or both of them are in a similar situation as you. What would you want them to do?


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Thatīs the main concern. You are a role model for your children.

You need to stand for yourself and get your respect back Curtis. Be proud of what you have done. You keep that fight. But you need to move on. Value yourself as your children value you.

Keep strong there man!


WW H(me): 50
W: 46
T: 26 M: 21
S: 16
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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by curtis7
Better late than never and knowing that I didnít give her a direct choice. I donít see how it could backfire, Iíve already lost her and sheís cheating, I feel Iím already living the worst ending. How much worse can it get?

So how does this command respect?
Steve, great question. This depends on what I include in my confrontation script, i.e. if I expose knowledge of her continued Aís which she believes have been kept secret from me. Yes, I may have waited too long. My love for her made me delusional. I accepted her bad choices and hoped she would wake up and exit the fog on her own and within my timeline.

This shows that Iím a man that respects himself to no longer be part of MR that involves a third party. Even if Iím no longer important to her, Iím important to myself, Iím moving forward, and I donít need her to live a wonderful life.
Originally Posted by Steve85
curtis, first, why wouldn't you file for D?
Reflecting on the big picture of my sitch, I feel that simply filing for D is weak. It gives the impression that I just gave up on my fight and stand with a meek exit. I want to regain some respect and let her know why I have decided to take the action of filing. Itís as much for me as it is her and I donít want to go out like a whimpering dog with his tail between his legs.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Your S8 asked you not to quit. Hmmm. What if he asked you to drink poison? Would you do it? Or would you explain to him how detrimental that would be? Now I am not saying to tell your S8 how bad his mom is. But sitting him down to explain that your life has to move on and he will understand one day would be the better approach.
Parents make many personal sacrifices for their children. My kids gave me much of the strength I needed to standby this long. I do want to do right in his eyes; however, I agree heíll understand when I decide to take action. He has seen the turmoil Iíve been through and how hard Iíve fought and changed to become the best version of myself, AMOAFWL.

Originally Posted by Steve85
Because you have hopes and dreams of what a happy future with your family could be IF she ended her affairs and wanted to R? And she couldn't do that after you file for D? During the D? After the D? That isn't an excuse.
Sure, we could R after filing or during the D. Iím not so sure about after D. I place such high value on commitment and the sanctity of MR and once that ends I donít know if I could find the forgiveness to R.

Originally Posted by Steve85
Further, you don't want to R with HER, at least as she is now, you have a romantic delusion of HER as she used to be. sandi says "the girl you married is gone!" You have to assume she is never coming back. Even if this multiple cheating version wanted to R, could you trust that it was because she was her old self again? Or because she likes having her horses (cake) there??
Youíre right, not with who she is now. Trust would take a LONG time to rebuild. She would have to show genuine change through consistent actions for me to see that the girl I married had returned.

Originally Posted by Steve85
You are at a crossroads only because you are stalling. You know what to do. You need to move on. I do not advocate most LBSs filing for D because that is doing the WAS's dirty work. But you are not in the same sitch as most. I'd think about it.
I know that you are more pro-MR than most on here and advocate earning your way out of the MR. I must have really portrayed my WW to be a monster in this sitch. Of course, cheating with multiple partners and ripping a family apart while cake eating the entire time is not the typical sitch. When you are in the thick of it, itís not always easy to see reality from the inside and itís helpful to read and hear the assessment of observers.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Final thought. We teach people how to treat us. And our kids learn from us. What are your S & D learning by the way you are handling your sitch?
Well, from me they are learning that you donít cut and run when the going gets tough. They are learning the meaning of commitment, love, and forgiveness. They are learning that you do everything in your power to stand for what you believe in. They will also learn that once youíve given all you could, itís okay to move on. You canít control others and respect that they are free to make their own choices. We will emerge as better people regardless of the outcome.

Originally Posted by neffer

You are a role model for your children.

You need to stand for yourself and get your respect back Curtis. Be proud of what you have done. You keep that fight. But you need to move on. Value yourself as your children value you.
Nef, thanks for the encouragement. I am proud of my journey. While I never would wish this upon anyone, I have grown so much as a man and a husband. Iíll probably never fully understand women, but I have discovered my shortcomings and learned what it takes to have a healthy relationship. I am a better father and have grown closer to God. All of these things make me appreciate that I went through this life changing situation...and I havenít lost all hope that my MR could be stronger than ever if we were to R.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Curtis,

You've come a long way. Keep going! I like your last post. You've thought this through and I see both your perspective and Steve's. Do what you think is best. Good luck.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Journaling.

GAL was fun over the weekend. W had the kids. I played volleyball on Friday night, then went out with a friend after for food and drinks. On Saturday, I worked out, then met up with some co-workers and we went to a sketch comedy show. Very funny, I enjoyed having some good laughs. On Sunday, I worked out again, then did some projects around the house until the kids came back over with W from her place.

I placed the kidís summer camp shirts in her car for the field trip this week. There was a book on the seat. I wonít give the title as itís against forum rules but itís about stop trying to be "positive" all the time to become better, happier people. Itís a counterintuitive self-help book about learning what to care about and what not to care about.

W fed the horses while I was cleaning the pool filter, then came up to me to tell me that S8 was grounded. She started to talking about him not respecting boundaries. I thought to myself, yes, and there are consequences for violating boundaries, but I didnít bring that up.

She went on to talk about how her horse was gaining a lot of weight and that morphed into her saying she was putting on some weight as well. My W is very slim and athletic and has always had a fast metabolism to the extent of being able to eat whatever she wants without having to worry about her figure. She lifted her shorts slightly to show me her thighs. I donít see any weight gain and didnít pay much attention, just validated.

She went on to say that she thinks she finally recovered from her hospital stay and itís going to force her to start working out again. 4 years ago, my W had a life threatening infection while she was breastfeeding our D. She spent 9 days in the hospital and they pumped her full of every antibiotic you can think of trying to combat it. I really think these drugs affected her hormones and chemical balance for a long time, but now she says sheís recovered, so I guess thatís good. Maybe that means my W of 4 years ago will come back.

I finished up the weekend by cooking dinner for the kids, then reading some books to them before bedtime. I love my kids so much, things just feel more right when they are home.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Originally Posted by curtis7
Originally Posted by curtis7

Letís call that post part 1, part 2 will include scripts for the possible confrontation that gives her the choice.

OK, here is where part 2 begins. I have compiled scripts and excerpts from my research on 100's of sitches. The posts that follow will be broken up into several parts by groups of members due to the length. DBers may benefit from these consolidated scripts at some point in the future. Hopefully, others find this to be a helpful resource.

For me personally, I'm still working on my script and will share to receive community feedback soon.

I've been thinking a long time about what to say to my WW and my subsequent actions. I am debating 1) whether to mention the A's/OM and 2) going NC for a period of time or filing for D after stating my position. On the former, it lets her know that I really know what's going on and what she's done, but I'm not sure it's worth even giving the OM any attention. On the latter, I don't know that a period of NC will shake her from the fog. I feel the A's would continue to run their course. I'm okay with the outcome of D based on everything I've gone through. I've accepted that. So, starting the D process will be moving my life forward.

Here are the scripts that I am considering. The first two are hard stance bust the affair scripts largely based on PuppyDogTails and Robx posts. The last two are more cool deliveries of accepting things as they are and calmly stating what I've decided largely based on Bustorama posts:

1) "Maybe you should sit down, we need to talk about something. I know all about you and the OM and it needs to stop. It's incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage, and to our family. We always taught our kids the importance of honesty; I've decided that WHATEVER happens with us, I am going to insist on that in our family moving forward. If contact with the OM does not immediately cease, I want nothing more to do with you and I will prepare to take steps for D."

2) "Maybe you should sit down, we need to talk about something. From now on I'm moving in this direction, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore and you already know that if you're with the OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that. If you really want to be with the OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to me and that's all that matters - I see that now. If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had alot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with the OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for too long. I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me."

3) "Maybe you should sit down, we need to talk about something. I have decided that this separation is no longer working for me. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for too long. I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I probably would have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. People make their own choices, I do not own you, you are free to make your own choices and I respect your decision to not work on our marriage. I would have preferred to work things out, but I understand that is not what you want. So, I am letting you go and moving forward with my life. I will be putting my things in order to file for divorce. I think you should find another place for our horse as soon as possible. I want NO CONTACT with you except for emergency stuff about the kids to make it easier for me to move on."

4) "Maybe you should sit down, we need to talk about something. I have decided that this is no longer working for me. I have neglected my wants and needs and pushed my values and beliefs aside for far loo long hoping you would do the right thing. I realize that I could be waiting my entire life for that to happen and that's not fair to me or our family. I accept that you don't want to be with me and that's okay because I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me either. I respect myself too much to remain married to someone who doesn't want me. I have decided to move forward with my life. Please do not contact me unless it's an emergency related to the kids as I feel that's what I need to move on. I think you should find another place for our horse as soon as possible. Please prepare your requests for a settlement so we can get moving on the D."

I wanted to run these by the board for feedback as I'm thinking about delivering these messages soon. Thanks in advance.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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1-4 all suck.

You don't say anything. Talk is cheap. We tell LBSs all the time...don't say.....do!

So what can you do? Stop thinking about what to say and think about what you can do?

Here are some questions: How much are you charging her for boarding of the horses? Have you talked to a L? Does she have a key and come and goes as she wants? If so, why? I know early on there was talk about not being able to afford the house without her, is that still the case? If so why not put the house up for sale?

Any words you say will be weak and not commanding of respect without action. Actions speak louder than words.

ACTION...NOT WORDS.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
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How about:

This arrangement isnít working for me anymore. I have decided to move forward with the D process and would like us to come to an agreement on custody and finances so the lawyers donít take all our money.

Less is more.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
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