Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.
Doesn't seem to make sense does it? Goes against everything your logical male mind is telling you to do. But it is absolutely true.
And don't overanalyze my sitch (if you look at it all) as some sort of validation that "hanging on" or "sticking it out" is the best path to reconcilliation. My sitch and my WW, as everyone's, had unique elements/dynamics but, in the end, the bottom line is that things didn't make a hard 180 turn for the better until 1) I was completely strong, confident, independent, and committed to MYSELF and 2) I walked and she knew i was serious about it. And you will see that pattern play out over, and over, and over, and over again on these pages.
I haven't looked at your threads in depth as i've been absent for awhile and was just bored and doing a drive-by, but if I get a sec I'll check them out. Been thinking i need to try to do a bit more "paying it forward."
At any rate, listen to what the folks on here are saying-- most have been around the block a time or two-- but at the same time don't be afraid to challenge/question (respectfully, of course) and keep an open mind on SPECIFICS... but always keep in mind that the GENERAL pattern with WWs is the same in EVERY SINGLE CASE. It's like they have secret weekly meetings and blogs that none of the rest of us know about where they distribute the "standard script"... either that or like they are all subsumed/taken over by the same alien pod collective...
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
That is why I asked you guys. Thank you!! I needed the 2x4s to keep me from making a mistake.
Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.
Destroyd, you asked how to get out of the friend zone. I told you that you have the choice of the status quo (IE remaining in the friend zone if she has indeed FZ'd you), or if you can't handle being in the friend zone...walking away.
In other words, whether or she friend zones you is not UP TO YOU. It is up to her. Your only choice to get out of the FZ is to walk. This is difficult for LBSs to understand. By nature of BD, after BD you are friend zoned. You don't get to decide, that is up to her, it is out of your control.
Eventually she may be reattracted to you if you COMMAND RESPECT. Or she may never will be and you are looking at the FZ for the rest of your life.
The only thing you get to control is how long you put up with the FZ. Lots of LBSs eventually get sick of it and walk.
Also, listen to LH. The fact that you will never walk is working against you. One of the best things I did in my sitch is to consult with a divorce attorney. When my W found out the fact that I could move the D for her got real!
Steve, I 100% agree that getting out of the friend zone is 100% up to her. But I am doing my 180s, and I certainly hope that they make her think twice about leaving me. When I look at your sitch threads, it seems like you and your W were in a similar place to me. However, you wife seemed to give lip service to wanting the marriage to last more than mine is. My W says she is working to fix our relationship, but I don't trust that she actually is. I think she is struggling because she knows I am a good man and a good father, but she is fighting a deep need for independence and freedom to find herself. I hope that she knows that she can find herself and happiness with me.
That is why I asked you guys. Thank you!! I needed the 2x4s to keep me from making a mistake.
Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.
Destroyd, you asked how to get out of the friend zone. I told you that you have the choice of the status quo (IE remaining in the friend zone if she has indeed FZ'd you), or if you can't handle being in the friend zone...walking away.
In other words, whether or she friend zones you is not UP TO YOU. It is up to her. Your only choice to get out of the FZ is to walk. This is difficult for LBSs to understand. By nature of BD, after BD you are friend zoned. You don't get to decide, that is up to her, it is out of your control.
Eventually she may be reattracted to you if you COMMAND RESPECT. Or she may never will be and you are looking at the FZ for the rest of your life.
The only thing you get to control is how long you put up with the FZ. Lots of LBSs eventually get sick of it and walk.
Also, listen to LH. The fact that you will never walk is working against you. One of the best things I did in my sitch is to consult with a divorce attorney. When my W found out the fact that I could move the D for her got real!
Steve, I 100% agree that getting out of the friend zone is 100% up to her. But I am doing my 180s, and I certainly hope that they make her think twice about leaving me. When I look at your sitch threads, it seems like you and your W were in a similar place to me. However, you wife seemed to give lip service to wanting the marriage to last more than mine is. My W says she is working to fix our relationship, but I don't trust that she actually is. I think she is struggling because she knows I am a good man and a good father, but she is fighting a deep need for independence and freedom to find herself. I hope that she knows that she can find herself and happiness with me.
It took things getting real, and not just some fantasy in her head, for my W to start to wake up. That getting real was her seeing me move on. When she felt she was in full control of whether the marriage lasted or not, she kept me FZ'd, and was not willing to even consider recommitting to the MR. When she felt like she was losing control, that I might be moving to end the marriage myself, she would take steps toward me and the MR.
As long as you are solidly in place as Plan B, she will continue to pursue her fantasy.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
My W says she is working to fix our relationship, but I don't trust that she actually is.
You say you don't trust that she is actually trying which is completely understandable. What would you need to see in order to change your mindset? Just remember that you can't control her actions...you either trust her or you don't...she can earn your trust, and the question I am asking you is just that. What do you need to see to be able to trust her again? Just a question you need to answer for yourself, nobody can tell you the right answer.
I can't trust my wife as far as I can throw her right now. I'm not sure I will ever be able to. However I know that I must trust myself, my instincts, and not let my emotions dictate whether I trust her or not. She hasn't tested me yet, but I am sure it will happen eventually when some fantasy bubble bursts for her. She will say all the right things, do some right things, and will try to lure me back with some smiles and flirty behavior that eventually leads to sex...however I cannot let myself go there because when she pulls back again I will be emotionally destroyed again. Some folks can go there and not attach any emotion to the act; I am not one of them. I know this and knowledge is power. I don't even know the answer to my question I posed above...someday I will and perhaps that will be when I am ready to trust her again. Whatever happens, actions will show me which path to take, there isn't a word she can say to make me trust her going forward without the accompanying actions.
Originally Posted by Destroyd
I hope that she knows that she can find herself and happiness with me.
Hope is not a plan brother. Show her that you can be happy with yourself...she won't be able to even have a chance to see happiness with you as a possibility until that happens.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but any kind of emotional attachment/interaction that would occur with my W would just confuse and hurt me right now. At least W knows that and has made sure not to pursue it.
But I would caution you. "Pursue" is pursuit. If you're okay possibly getting hurt again, and I think it might sound like you would attach meaning to the physical side of things but that's just my interpretation, it could leave you in a worse state if or when she pulls away again. That's the pursuit-distancer dynamic.
Plus if she's still in the uncertain zone, a lot would be riding on it (pun intended - sorry) and it could mean nothing to her, while meaning everything to you.
I'm a relationship guy, I figuredthat out a long time ago, so it has to mean something to me. Others here aren't and I understand and respect that. Everyone is different.
Whatever you do - make sure it is only for you, and not for the R.
IW, wouldn't getting married imply that we are "relationship" guys?
Good point, Steve. Kinda considering myself passed the old MR at this point so my viewpoint has shifted somewhat.
I meant it more inthe context of "single guys out for a good time" versus "guys that wait and are in it for the long haul"
Maybe I'm just too old school haha
I think most of the male posters on this site are relationship guys, that was my point. I am as about pro-marriage/anti-divorce as you can get!
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do what works. DBing work. And Destroyd not being willing to show her that not only will he move forward without her, but that he will thrive in doing so, will cause her to continue to keep him in her back pocket, just in case. Sometimes not having a safety net will keep someone from jumping off the platform. As long as she feels he is securely in place as the safety net, she may jump as much as she wants. (Jumping being an analogy for affairs, etc.)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I think most of the male posters on this site are relationship guys, that was my point.
Definitely. I think the women here are very pro-marriage and loyal as well. These are fantastic characteristics in this disposable world we live in.
One of the women I dated after my D kept telling me I would mess around on her, that it was "normal" and "all men do it". I told her "no I'm not wired that way, I didn't so much as kiss another woman even as a friend in the 25 years I was dating and then married to my ex." She laughed and told me I was a liar, that there's no such thing as what I was describing. And she was 100% serious! She never did believe me, needless to say the dating didn't last long because I am not a fan of being called a liar, especially because I place so much personal value on being honest.
Anyway, that's what things have come to, a lot of people don't believe in loyalty and integrity and don't even believe it exists anymore.
[quote=Steve85]IW, wouldn't getting married imply that we are "relationship" guys?
Good point, Steve. Kinda considering myself passed the old MR at this point so my viewpoint has shifted somewhat.
I meant it more inthe context of "single guys out for a good time" versus "guys that wait and are in it for the long haul"
Maybe I'm just too old school haha
Quote
I think most of the male posters on this site are relationship guys, that was my point. I am as about pro-marriage/anti-divorce as you can get!
Ah, I get you now. I was a little confused - not trying to insinuate anything about anyone here or not here. Just a general feeling of malaise at the current societal "accepted norms" on my part. All good now
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Definitely. I think the women here are very pro-marriage and loyal as well. These are fantastic characteristics in this disposable world we live in.
Anyway, that's what things have come to, a lot of people don't believe in loyalty and integrity and don't even believe it exists anymore.
I very much agree, AS. I'm really not fond of the disposable society ideals that exist today. IMO If you get married and say those words, that is a contract and a bond that you made. Make sure that you have thought about what you are going to say and what saying those words entails.
Mean it. If something isn't working, work on it. Dont just throw it away. Try. Do something different. At least then if you've done all you can possibly do and it still doesnt work out, you know you gave it your all.
Maybe it's the ex-military mindset, or maybe my way of thinking is out of date. But it would be nice to be able to trust that someone has your back no matter what.
