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kiro #2856935 07/13/19 06:37 PM
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And even non-believers still follow some religious practices without realizing it due to culture and traditions. Marriage itself has its roots in religious practice. The more societies move away from religion, the fewer you will find long term marriages.

As societies become more liberal, we rely more and more on human ideas and Ďscientific studiesí than we rely on Godís texts. This is found everywhere around us. Weíre bombarded all the time with research studies about happiness, about healthy habits, healthy food, etc.

But human ideas evolve all the time. And these studies are often biased and limited. People have more and more options to follow. And with the explosion of the information available, we can find studies that will justify almost any theory we want.

So people are more and more confused because of all of the options available. And this is the only possible result from loss of faith. This is Satanís final and most brilliant contribution: total chaos. Convincing people that God doesnít exist is a very difficult task, but overwhelming people with contradicting information to make them lose sight of the righteous path is a much easier task.


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2856936 07/13/19 06:49 PM
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To the point that it becomes ironical and comical how public opinion on important topics in life have become random choices. This is why people are split 50/50 between liberals and democrats. And this is why 50% of marriages end up in divorce. Itís not much different than tossing a coin.

Iíd say that if we didnít have law and enforcement, weíd probably have 50% of the people who would be criminals.

Without guidance from God, the human race is bound to go astray.

So yes, you will find non religious people who still do good and you can find successful marriages away from religion, but getting married becomes like tossing a coin. Am I going to be in the lucky 50% or in the unlucky group?


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2856948 07/14/19 12:57 AM
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K,

I believe that there are so many variables to couples staying together or getting divorced and not just randomness.

I really wonder if people were taught how to love in grade school and high school would divorce numbers be lower.

I really feel like our society has made M to be this fantasy place of sunshine and rainbows, when in reality it's much more and a bunch of hardwork and compromise.

I think people choose who and what they want with the information they have been presented with. But, when the dust settles what they really was looking for isn't what they chose.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
kiro #2856970 07/14/19 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kiro
From the point of view of a believer, life has a meaning. We donít believe in the absurdity of life like existentialists. We believe in an Absolute Truth. God is not an idea that we create in our mind. Existentialism and Relativism believe that reality is subjective and that each person creates their own world. Each person is a creator of their own truth.

Because there is a true meaning to life, as believers, we know that our acts matter to us and to others. Life is not an absurd haphazard thing. Marriage and family have a true purpose to individuals and to society.

Non-believers, on the other hand, donít have this moral foundation. They only take into consideration their own happiness and other pragmatic considerations. And since their views are relative and subjective, they also have a changing dynamic nature. Itís a pragmatic equation for them, and they follow their feelings and mind to make their decisions. But feelings change all the time. Also, as we grow older, we go through many physical and hormonal changes. I canít list all the reasons peopleís feelings and priorities change with time, but my point is that without a constant moral foundation such as the one that religion provides, most marriages are bound to fail sooner or later.

Of course, there are exceptions to that rule. And even religious people need to learn good relationship habits to have a happy marriage.


This is exactly what I was trying to emphasize.

kiro #2857054 07/15/19 01:55 PM
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MEETING WITH EXW

Long Post... sorry.... but I thought it was worth recording the details because it shows an evolution in our Sitch... 2 years later...

Yesterday, out of the blue, I called my ex and asked her if she wanted to go out for a coffee.

Chit-Chat about work and studies:
We went out a few hours later. She seemed very relaxed and happy. She talked a lot about her studies and her work.

About her feeling unsafe during MR:
I brought up our MR. I told her that I thought about the fact that she felt insecure during the MR, which is something unpleasant in a relationship. I hadn't felt the same. I always felt secure in our MR (until BD). I explained that I understood what she did and I accepted it. And that I had no bad feelings anymore.

She opened up and explained that she didn't feel safe in the relationship. She felt always judged. She always had to give in, and didn't feel the freedom to be herself. She always had to walk on eggshells out of fear that I would criticize her. She couldn't be vulnerable in front of me and couldn't show her weaknesses due to that. And that made her feel unhappy and made her lose her identity. So she needed to rediscover herself.

I explained that I had no clue that she felt that way during the MR. She was surprised. She thought she mentioned it to me over and over and that I never took her seriously.

I explained that I had read dozens of other people's stories and that it was very common that the LBS had no idea what was going on with the WAS until BD.


Her uncertainties about moving on:
Reading between the lines, she showed that she wasn't sure she did the right thing for the long term.

EXW: "What do think I will go through next since you read so much about midlife crisis and other people's stories, and you're a few steps ahead of me? smile "

ME: "you have become the opposite of who you were before. Most probably, you will slowly revert back to your old personality and would end up somewhere in the center, a more mature but balanced and moderate person."

ME: "At the beginning, I didn't agree at all with you leaving, but now that I am detached, I accept the fact that you needed to go away. You needed to live on your own and learn to become independent and rediscover yourself. You are definitely a stronger and more confident person in that regard."

She agreed and really appreciated that. Then, she brought up how difficult it would have been for her to study and work such long hours if we were still living together.

ME: "Midlife is a difficult age anyway. Did you know that people are at their lowest happiness during these years and that their happiness improves as they grow older"

EXW: "Yes, I know. I even read that many people will later wonder why they were so unhappy before and regret what they did. And I told myself OMG! Do you think that will be my case?"

ME: "Maybe"

About being a good LBS:
ME: "I have never once blamed you or been disrespectful to you since BD and separation."

EXW corrected me and reminded me of a few examples that I said things that were disrespectful to her. Oops! I guess I had an over-inflated view of myself! lol blush grin


About MR and R:
I talked about the advantages of MR and stability and said that I knew she didn't believe in MR anymore. She disagreed and said that she still believed in MR. I talked about the fact that her parents and many people in her family were divorced, and this normalized D for her.

EXW: "But I always cared about our MR and really wanted it to succeed."

ME: "I know and this is why I still embarrass myself blush and have these conversations with you."

ME: "I know you are a focused and goal oriented person. You always want to succeed in what you do and you don't look back."

EXW: "Not always. There are many things that I did and then realized I was wrong. Then I learned from the experienced and moved on."

ME: "I want you to know that there is still an opportunity if you wanted to. (Re-)MR is still a possibility especially that we both agree that MR and stability have many benefits for everyone.

EXW: "But would you be willing to Reconcile after everything we went through. This was traumatic."

ME: "Traumatic for you or for me?"

EXW: "For you mostly. I just left."

ME:"I would be open for R because since day 1, I made sure I stayed in a positive mentality especially toward you. I always tried to understand where you were coming from instead of blaming you."

EXW showed a true interest in the possibility of R.

About love:
ME: "You know? If in the future, you gave me a chance, I think I can gain your heart again. blush grin"

EXW: "I know. Love is easy to revive."

Wrapping up:
After that, there was an awkward silence... none of us knowing what to say after that or what to do.

... a few confused looks... awkward smiles... small talk...

Then... ME: "It's starting to get cold", EXW: "Yes, maybe we should get going"...

Then as we're leaving, I tell her that it was a good conversation. She agrees and gives me this look with a smile that I haven't seen for a very long time... the smile of a woman telling a man that she likes him... almost like the first time I told her I liked her 20 years ago.


Nothing further to say and no intention for the short term to do anything about it. It was a spur of the moment thing.


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2857056 07/15/19 02:08 PM
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K,

Correct me if Iím wrong but didnít you have the same conversation about 4 months ago on the phone?


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ÔŅĹHappiness equals reality minus expectationsÔŅĹ- Magliozzi
LH19 #2857081 07/15/19 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
K, Correct me if Iím wrong but didnít you have the same conversation about 4 months ago on the phone?

Sort of... but it wasn't the same.

Last time, she was defensive and mostly responsive to what I was saying. And it was over the phone.

This time, the conversation was truly 2-sided. We were much more relaxed and not emotional. It felt genuine. We both seem to understand the other much more than before.

Yesterday, I just felt I was ready to be friends with her and kinda wanted to have another meaningful discussion with her to understand where she is in her progress. These discussions help me get closure and free myself of any bitterness. I think bad feelings are mostly due to misunderstanding the other person and making a lot of assumptions and speculation...

Anyway, I don't have any expectations or any hopes. And I'm not planning to act on any of this any time soon. My post was mostly to record the conversation and let other newbies know how WAS/WWs behavior can evolve with time...


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2858823 07/26/19 03:28 PM
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Court finally approved our D on July 16th. I can officially say I am divorced now smile


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2863891 09/03/19 04:48 PM
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ďDear Algebra,
Please stop asking us to find your x.
Sheís never coming back and donít ask y.Ē

laugh


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017
Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
kiro #2863897 09/03/19 05:38 PM
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Hey Kiro, not sure whether to congratulate you or offer condolences on the D, LOL! So I'll ask instead, how are you doing? Did it affect you positively or negatively emotionally? I felt like it would send me spiraling, but instead I walked out of court and just breathed a sigh of relief. It felt like I could finally put it behind me and work on rebuilding my life. I hope it was the same for you!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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