It is a rough day. I guess because I am not with the kids. Or last year we were all at a 4th party together having a grand old time together. My past memories are what keep haunting me. Thinking what was she feeling last year at this time? Because it didn’t look like she was unhappy, disgusted or even thinking of divorce. I remember watching the fireworks with my arm around her. This roller coaster of emotions [censored]!!!
I went to the house this morning to bring them bagels, this way I could spend some time with the kids. W was in such a pissy mood. My d didn’t want to go to the beach. She was feeling down. So my w was annoyed with her. But because my w is in super selfish mode she really didn’t ask my d what was the matter. I knew what was wrong right away. After my wnattacked about what was wrong. I said to my w, “you really don’t know what’s bothering her?” She said I have no idea. I said it was the last time my d played with our friends daughter before she drowned (she didn’t die, but is basically a vegetable). As soon as I said that the tears started to roll down my d’s face. And my w being so insensitive says to my d, you have to move on and get over it. W says look that was a tragedy and they are still going out today so you need to move on. I told my d it’s ok to be sad, it’s ok to cry. I told her to let those emotions out and you will feel better. Again this just proves where my w’s head is at!!! No empathy for my daughter, no feelings of what was a year ago, all my wife cared about was that she was going to be late meeting up with friends, not that my daughter was having a rough time. Or that my kids hate the beach and was taking them anyway because a friend asked her to go. If it was the other way around and I was taking the kids to the beach, she would have made a comment like why are you taking them there, they don’t like the beach.
I wonder if my w will ever look back years from now and realize just how selfish she is acting and how cold she was to everyone? Who has this woman become???
This post really stood out to me. Your daughter doesn't want to go to the beach, but she also does not get to make that decision. Your W is advising your daughter that she's going anyways. Kids test parents just to test them. Maybe your W is in pain and is not the best parent at the moment. Maybe you aren't either. As far as what your daughter is upset about you say that you knew right away, but do you? Could it be something else? Could your girl be playing the role to get what she wanted? You showed up at the house you left with an instant diagnosis and solution. I don't see anything wrong with your W wanting to get going to the beach either.
Your W is right, to an extent. So are you, too. But your post paints her so negatively, as if she's hurting you and your family so badly and she just needs to change to stop. You're the victim, she is the victimizer. MWD discusses this in her book, comparing it self defense situations, saying "play the victim and you will be the victim". It doesn't help that society is infatuated with victims currently, but a victim cannot logically expect the victimizer to just stop in the name of righteousness, right? If the oppressor was so righteous, you wouldn't be here. So what can YOU do to stop it?
And you left the house and kids, why are you stopping in with bagels?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Question for everyone. While we are away for the week how do I handle down time? I want to be with my kids but I don’t want her to think I want to be with her. 2 if I keep too much distance then I feel like she will day I don’t want to be with my kids. With her she always twists things and finds the negative. Thanks!!
H:"I am going to go get ice cream. Anyone want to join me?" Kids:"YES!!!" H:"I am leaving in 5 minutes"
Wife can decided to join you or stay back. Either way you are fine with her decision. Same with kids. be fine if they say yes or no.
Ice cream, the pool, the mall, the park, the beach, the movies, mini golf, whatever
I second R2C for this. do not include her to be a part of your plan. No expectation, no let down. For me, I told my wife that I am intending to bring my kids for a overseas holiday. If she likes to, she can join us. if not, we will still go ahead. Don't feel bad for the kids thinking that you'll are unable to go as a family. Step up in your role. Make the session with your kids so enjoyable for them that they think that hanging out with you alone is so much fun (But not at the deliberations of doing it to let your kids choose spending time with you over the mother).
I understand where you are coming from. We all have that glimmering sense of hope in us that things is starting to improve and lure us into situations which we would slap ourselves across our own faces later. Yes it takes different duration for different people to get over it but I believe what everyone is trying to share here are the most effective or tested methods to get you out of this stitch, and get back being better together with your wife or by yourself. Thus as someone had mentioned before but I like to reiterate is, DB gives you 2 outcomes. Reconcile or Divorce. But either way, DB helps you to come out better of either situation. DB is for you, not anyone else.
I am going to ask you a question Wolf. Take time and answer this question to yourself. Find a quiet place or have a drink and think about it.
Who are you Wolf? Who were you before your wife came into your life? Before you had your family? What did you enjoy doing? What were your hobbies that you had given up these years? What was it that you liked to do and had shelved away for your family?
From your reply, I felt that your "DB" is more on exterior and aesthetic. Something that you are doing to show your wife and that you are GAL and etc. I mean yes that is part of DB I supposed but, whats more important is, feeling happy from within. Happy that you are doing these things for yourself, not with an underlying intent at the back of your mind of subconsciously thinking that this will lead your wife back to you. Why not switching your thoughts to that you are DB-ing to become a great Dad to your kids and a much attractive person for your potential future partner?
Look. The problem with us guys is, when we got married, we know about the commitment, responsibilities and etc and we give up living for ourselves. Subconsciously and unknowingly. We always prioritize family over ourselves. So much so that we are just living for the family. Everything family first and blah blah blah. Pumping all resources we have into the family, taking an extra job to give the family a much more comfortable life providing a lifestyle they want, handling all the household chores and other stuffs yet what could have gone wrong?
Everything has gone wrong I feel. We have stop living for ourselves. Are you still the Wolfman you were before you met your wife and started your family? Overtime, your actions towards your family or some other things you might have done under your previous role had also contributed to this current marriage issue. Perhaps you were being too protective? Perhaps you had been taking care of all things that prevented your wife from growing up? Perhaps something triggered her childhood issues? Or it's a myrid of factors? I don't know. It could be anyone of the above or all.
You were you before you had this family. You had happy times too before you met your wife. But I guess the problem now is, you are making your wife and family your life which is not very healthy. You have to find back who you are. I mean look, putting yourself in your wife's shoes now. If you are her and looking at you now, and able to read your mind, do you think you will find yourself attractive?
I hope you don't mind me saying this but I feel that if she happens to chance upon this thread and your input in this forum, I don't think that she will be touched about how you are feeling all these for her and what you are doing for her. I think she will feel scared and put off, very much in fact. The reason which she is still behaving this way if she has not come out is also because, she is still not at ease with you and in fact, she may be feeling threatened, and also thinking you do have ulterior motives even though, you might not have been doing anything to her. And this ties back to the fact that her perception for now is that marriage is all bad, and you have to accept and respect that. Like how you felt your marriage was all wonderful. Unless she sees it that way as well, she would not agree with anything you do that justify your cause.
Thus fore, the actions the vets are telling you to do here is, how to take this feeling off away from her through tried and proven methods. And I can tell you in short is, leave her alone. And validating in the right way also helps to take the edge off her. This is really the first step towards anything. Likewise for example, a woman is madly in love with you now. But you hates her. Everything she does just turns you off. What's the first thing to happen to let her even have a chance with you? That is, to stop turning you off and taking the anger or hatred away from you first. Before you even see her in a neutral light for any future potentials.
Yes, we have a long history with our spouses. We may like to think that we have happy times together. But I can tell you this history is working against us now. Because what's in their mind are not the happy times for now, but all those unpleasant moments which you are also surprised that they remembered all those arguments so well.
I would love to share about what I went through too wolf, but repeating those tires me. And negativity breeds negativity. I can go on picking out every of the nonsense she did but if I do that, I am not being kind to myself. It will pull me back from my progress. I would rather share the positivism and some methods that may help you to feel better. Sure there are also moment and days which I felt low as well but I keep looking forward to anything positive and keep me going. It can be a catch up with my pals, a playground trip with the kids, or a jog or simply time for myself after work simply reading or get onto some games. These were things which I gave up for family back then as well. In a nut shell, I keep finding things to keep myself occupied, keeps myself busy and happy. If I run out of ideas, I try new things.
Just to share, I actually do not think that this episode happening in my marriage is a bad thing. Because it highlighted the problems in the relationship with my wife and also surfaced the personal issues that she buried in herself. If she managed to get through all these, great she will be a better person. And for me myself, I reflected deeply on whom I was. What I wanted in life instead of thinking I am fulfilling my role as a wonderful husband by fulfilling anniversaries celebrations and gifts, making enough for the family to get by, non-negotiable if anything involves my family that I thought might be detrimental... etc.
I was not perfect too despite of me then thinking that I had fulfilled the role of a husband to the best that I could. If I could have turned back time, I would have done a lot of things very differently but if I keep thinking like this, I will be stuck in this state of being emotional and allow my emotion to dictate my every move which, I can tell you is not very attractive. This is what our spouses are doing now. Fuel by emotion and living according to it.
Thus, I apply the logic on myself. Using this period to revisit what I missed out on, improve myself and becoming a better person for myself. For any positive outcome to happen be it if we reconcile with our spouses or move on by ourselves, we need to step out from here. Whats the worse that could happen? Divorce? We would not lose a limp or what if we are divorced. We will still be the Dad of the kids after we are divorced. What's worst that can happen is already on the table. Is either we accept or still deny it. Thus what we can do is, using our logic, to make the best of what future we can build for ourselves.
I would say that you had lost yourself in your marriage. Likewise me too. Thus, I am also finding myself back too. It takes time but slowly and surely, we inch forward. Find your life back and don't live for your family. It is certainly not healthy and I would say like a form of obsession. Even in the better times, I don't think your family would want you to live for them solely. They want you to be happy. Likewise I do not think you would want your wife to be living for you but to be happy with her life because you are in her life.
Cheers.
M:38 W:38 T:14 M: 12 S:9 S:6 BD: 07/18 W Moved out: 5/19 W Moved in: 7/19 D draft received: 12/19
Ovr my kids really do hate the beach. As a matter of fact my w told me the next day what a hard time my d have her. I understand kids can’t have their way all the time. But when both kids are adamant about not going and you take them anyway that’s when I think you shouldn’t take them. It’s not my problem but evidently they did not have a good time because my kids don’t like it. My w even told me that my d said to her that she was only going to be with her friend. I bring up that point because if it was the other way around my w would have made it a point to say why am I bringing them their when they don’t like that. Ovr on here I just vent and talk about my feelings so I may look like the victim. But when I am with my kids and around my w I am happy and fun. I don’t want to show her a sad or unhappy person.
Tosmile another great post. There are a lot of things I would like to address from your post. Before my w I was a very independent strong person who loved to play sports. When we first got married I continued to play in a men’s baseball and flag football league. Once we had kids I slowly phased it out. Why? She complained that I cared more about my sports than the family and that was not true. So, eventually I stopped playing. We would argue at times that I had to leave to play sports. If you are thinking compromise, accordingly to my w there was always something going on. I could see how angry she was getting about me playing.
Since we separated I have got back into playing sports again. I try to play as much as possible.
You also talked about it not being healthy making my family my life. If you meant in the past I disagree with that. I love my family and they will always be number one. If you meant now then yes I need to detach more. It looks like one of the mistakes I made was trying to do everything for my w. The more I did the more she asked of me and even said it was too much for her to keep up with her stuff. I don’t know what she was implying, the only things she did was laundry and cook on occasion. I did everything else. I think that stunted her growth into adulthood. Where now she is rebelling like a teenager. Again, I always tried to be the best husband and father possible. Some how it wasn’t enough and that scares me. It scares me because that could happen in the next relationship. Where I think I am being a great spouse or companion and the next one leaves.
You also talk about what is the worse that can happen? Divorce? To me that is pretty bad. This whole thing has really got me down. I have never felt so depressed the last year. That I am on 2 meds I go to IC. And yet still struggle. Some people can bounce back I think for me it will be a long time before I fully recover from this.
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
Also received an email from the lawyer about the divorce decree. I am one step closer to this being done. I am still in shock that this is happening. I am very sad that I will not be in my home anymore. That I will not be with my kids all the time. I am away for my kids dance competition. There is literally only a handful of fathers here. I have also been so dedicated to my family, why doesn’t she see that. How many fathers did not come, about 90%. And yet I am the one going through this. I’m sorry just having a rough morning. I woke up from the most amazing dream that we were a family again!! So when I woke up I was so sad it was just a dream!!
Tosmile for someone who is new to here I don’t know how you do it? I just feel like crying this morning. Thank god my son doesn’t perform till later.
M:42 XW:41 T:19 M: 15 D:13 S:10 BD: 8/10/18 Moved out: 8/18 Moved in: 9/18/18 Moved out: 4/22/19 D papers signed 11/4/19 D final 3/18/20
I am going to challenge you on your last to posts. Maybe the other fathers are away on business. Maybe they are running marathons or climbing Mt. Everest.
I worry that this will happen to you again because I feel you haven’t learned anything from this experience. A woman is not attracted to a man she can have her way with. One who spends 100% of his time trying to please her and the kids. She wants someone who is his own man and spends time playing sports, running marathons, golfing, hunting hanging with his buddies and being a man. Not all his time let me be clear on that.
W I think I explained this to you before that this $hit is hard wired in humans for thousands of years that a woman wants a man she can feel safe and comfortable with and one she knows can protect her. When you don’t stand up to her she thinks, well if he can’t stand up to me how is he going to protect me.
Stbx : I think you’re playing too much softball and not spending enough time with the kids and I. W: Baby I understand you feel that way but it really helps me relieve stress which will allow me to spend better quality time with you and the kids. Stbx: it’s too much! Blah blah blah W: I’m really sorry you feel that way. Let’s discuss it over a glass of wine later.
If you’re being reasonable a reasonable woman will want to make you happy.
To me, you are making very unhealthy statements, like, "You also talked about it not being healthy making my family my life. If you meant in the past I disagree with that. I love my family and they will always be number one." and "Again, I always tried to be the best husband and father possible".
The first statement shows unhealthy attachment issues. You have to have your own identity in your M. You have to be able to be your own self, go and play your sports with your W supporting you. You have to have a healthy balance. Your family can be your number 1 priority and you still have time for yourself.
IMO, like you stated you did whatever it takes to make her happy, inside of that you lost yourself. In your next relationship, with whoever that is, you have to remember to not lose yourself. Have your identity in your relationship.
Also, IMO your issue is allowing people to deal with consequences, if the consequences makes people unhappy you have to fix what makes them unhappy for them. You are a fixer!!!! Stop fixing and start LOVING!
Joe
Onward and upward
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
I am away for my kids dance competition. There is literally only a handful of fathers here. I have also been so dedicated to my family, why doesn’t she see that.
I'm sure she sees that you are a great father to the kids. Unfortunately that doesn't equate to her being attracted to you. It was the same for my XW, she raved about what a great dad I was even after S and D. Unlike a lot of WAS's, she never did lose respect for me. Anyone that asked she always told that she respected me very much, I even heard her say it when she didn't know I was listening. She respected me, she loved me, she thought I was a great parent, she enjoyed the sex. But she didn't want to be married. It is damned tough to wrap your head around that. Yet that was my situation, and it is yours. There is no figuring it out.
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Tosmile for someone who is new to here I don’t know how you do it? I just feel like crying this morning. Thank god my son doesn’t perform till later.
Then find a private place and cry. However long it takes you to grieve and recover is how long it takes. It may take me 9 months and someone else 2 months and you 2 years. There is no right or wrong, it takes what it takes. Let it happen.
Yep I might be new here but I'm still going through it for more than a year. If you like to ask me how I do it, I guess I just sum it up in 1 word which is, Acceptance.
I accept whom my wife has become, and recognize her for who she is now. I accepted the grief I have to go through and I face the pain heads on. I too, do have those nights when I woke up at wee hours like 3 or 4 am and couldn't get to sleep till the next morning and continue with what the day has in for me. My job and extended family had not been kind as well and I have a key role at both areas.
It was so bad that doctors told me to take a break and prescribed me meds to remain functional. But I just appreciate the rest that was given to me away from work and put the meds aside because, I want to face this heads on. I do not wish to depend on any substance as they are just relieving the feelings temporary which is not what I am looking for. I thought by pushing through the pain, I will be used to it and if I want to emerge a stronger and better person for a much more wonderful future, I have to live through this.
And I look back and think about this period since BD. On those days that even though I felt crappy, it din't help my marriage. During better days, sure it might not have helped my marriage as well but I radiates much positivism. I am feels lighter and happier as well. I enjoy more with my children (mind you they can feel if you are genuinely happy or not) and performs much better.
For some people who gone through such turmoil in their marriage, physical separation is one of those point in time that is very painful for them. For me, when my wife mentioned that she is moving out, I felt a sense of relief. I am also glad about it and happy for her. Relief because I would not need to face potential outburst from her sudden emotional berserk and giving her the space and time that she would require to sort herself out. This time is also good for me so I can experience life without her. Previously she proposed that I move out of the house but I did not and stayed put because to me, she is the one who wanted the new. The new is out there and she can go for it. I am happy with my family and why should I move? Thus in the end she made the move which came as a surprise and is fine with me.
The more I work towards focusing on myself, the more the anger, disappointment and sadness leaves me. I think this is what they meant by dropping the rope. In fact, I might have already forgiven her for all she had done even though she had not came back with an apology yet "that some books mentioned she eventually will" but I guess that does not matter anymore. When families and friends rallied and took sides (even her family and friends) with me from her outrageous antics, I just told them it's ok, just let her be. By accepting, forgiving and dropping the rope, then you will be truly relieved and detach. In fact for the same crap that I reacted badly when she threw it at me previously, nowadays I just laugh through it. (I feel especially time and time again she will try to provoke to get a reaction at me in order to justify for her actions or cause. But I refuse to fall for it.)
I like this analogy I read somewhere. One day, a teacher walks into the class and asked one of the student out. He then passed a glass of water to the student and ask him to hold it straight with his hand. Then the teacher asked the student is the glass heavy? The student replied no. The teacher ask the student to remain holding it. 10 minutes later, the student started to feel abit of strain. 20 minutes later, his hand starts to tremble and the water spills out. A short while later, the student gave up.
Moral of the story is, the glass of water is like our emotions. the longer we held on to it, the more painful it will be. By letting go, then we will be released from the pain and be in a better state which we can think and perform better.
Thus nowadays when I wake up in the middle of the night, I just tell myself to empty my thoughts and get back to sleep. It will not help anything even if I stayed awake. When I start to feel the sadness creeping up to me, I distract myself by thinking about something happy. Because I do not want my mood or performance to be affected. I focus on working on myself to have a better me for others.
You have to love yourself first. This is not a selfish analogy. This is because if you do not love yourself, how do you love others? Put forth some examples: You have to love yourself by doing things you need to do to take care of your own health like exercising and such. Otherwise someday if you fall sick, you will become the burden of your family, like it or not. You have to tell yourself to be emotionally strong so that those who depends on you can genuinely believe that they can fall back on you when they need to. Putting up a strong front is not enough because from time to time, there will be some water that spills out of the glass and onto them. We all know how it is when we are dealing with someone that we know they are holding back their emotion. It's kind of like threading on ground laid with land mines.
On the whole, I think everyone here is focusing on you, instead of your wife. On how to help Wolf out of this, with or without his wife. In the Chinese idiom, there is this saying. "Those in the situation does not see it as clear as a third party" Thus they are singling out issues which you might not have seen that would have contributed to these. Because you are in the situation, while we are out of it. And you have to try to bring yourself out of your situation to view it more holistically.
As like in my previous post, I had also mentioned. Sure, I thought I had been doing everything right? But why it came to this? It may be easy to put it on my wife's MLC, Childhood issues, being spoilt and etc. But does that absolves me of my responsibility in this marriage? The answer is no. I accept that I have a role in this as well. It would be some actions I have done or how I have treated her that leads to the breakdown of the marriage. And my mission now I feel is to ensure I do not repeat those mistakes again if we get back together, or if I am with someone else.
For now, I am looking at 2 directions. If we get back together, what kind of marriage are we going to build and what kind of future I would like to have with her? But if we do not get back together, what is the future for me or with someone else? I reiterate that I am doing this not because that I have lost my love for her. But I accept reality as it is and what present situation and potential future may be. Past memories are to be appreciated and thankful of. Then we should leave them as it is. Even if I get back with my wife, I want a different marriage with her and doing things differently. Or would you rather go back to how things were?
When a walk away or MLC spouse is in this situation,the wake up call for them may not from us the left behind spouse. It may be from other incidents in life, or divorce when they finally free themselves of the feelings they have of you and drop the history to see you neutrally again, or after they met someone else and then realize how wonderful you had been. But for the later statements, we are not the one that can doing anything about it because the more we behave in ways they expect us to be in the situation, the more it proves to them they are right in their campaign. Thus though sometimes what some of us suggested you may think is counter-productive for your marriage, it may actually works. But one thing for sure is, even if it does not work for your marriage, it would be beneficial for you as an individual as it redeems your pride/confidence/respect from someone that thrashes on it.
My 2 cents
M:38 W:38 T:14 M: 12 S:9 S:6 BD: 07/18 W Moved out: 5/19 W Moved in: 7/19 D draft received: 12/19
I'm sure she sees that you are a great father to the kids. Unfortunately that doesn't equate to her being attracted to you. It was the same for my XW, she raved about what a great dad I was even after S and D. Unlike a lot of WAS's, she never did lose respect for me. Anyone that asked she always told that she respected me very much, I even heard her say it when she didn't know I was listening. She respected me, she loved me, she thought I was a great parent, she enjoyed the sex. But she didn't want to be married. It is damned tough to wrap your head around that. Yet that was my situation, and it is yours. There is no figuring it out.
AS, do you mean she didn't want to be married to you or just married in general? Did she ever remarry? Did she get into other relationships?
I ask these questions because my wife has hinted that she just doesn't like the institution of marriage. I think she resents the expectations and responsibilities that come with it. I personally feel that once you have married and had three kids its too late to go back and incredibly selfish, but I think that is what she is struggling with.
