How To Treat Spouse With Children

[crdcheck]

Hi Sandi - same sitch as Ben, would love your additional perspective (you had posted here and I replied, curious if you have anything to add):

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2853370&page=4

Apologies to HrtHsbnd for the distraction

[HrtHsbnd]

What are some of the things you feel you must trust her?

Because even I love her, I have to trust her. If I trust her then I have to respect her. I think this would be harder if I thought she was cheating, but I don’t think that anymore.

Why are you involved in the web chat? Isn't that when she talks to your son, or vise versa? Why can't it just be her and your son communicating?

We each have to hold the phone, so we’re there. I usually try not to talk to her, but she almost always answers anything I say to him. I’m not sure if that’s a good sign or not, but I try not to think about it. When I want to talk to her, I’ll ask her to go in the other room.

I get the feeling that you don't fully understand tough love. And, if you believe she is a WAW instead of a WW, then why would you need to apply tough love?

You are right. I’ve never been a tough love type of person. I would love to know what that looks like.

First of all, the two of you are physically separated. It comes right under getting a divorce. So, about the most you can do is protect yourself from disrespect. You must look at it as protecting yourself......instead of issuing consequences to her. If she is screaming, calling you names, cursing over the phone......then tell her you will disconnect the call if she doesn't talk to you respectfully. Same would go for web chat, or whatever type of communication. You don't have a discussion about it beforehand or afterwards. If she starts showing disrespect, you just tell her that you won't continue the call if she can't continue respectfully.

I like that very much. I have tried to start doing that, but I feel like she does that to me before I even get the chance.

So, what are some ways she shows disrespect?

How much do you feel MC is helping? Is this more of an opportunity where you get to see her in person and talk about the MR? Does the counselor give the two of you assignments, or is it just talking in the sessions?

Eye rolling or making face when I speak in person. Very moody on the phone. Tries to compare minor accidents when he’s with me to when he’s with her, etc.

It’s just very petty.

As far as MC, I do think it’s helping. We had our best session last week, but still a long way to go. Yes, we do get to talk about our marriage. I have been doing a lot of work on myself and both the therapist and I are very happy with my progress. She hasn’t done anything to work on our marriage at all and you can tell.

As far as assignments, the only things he’s given us to do is look towards the future and stop looking in the past, as well as give the other the benefit of the doubt with everything. We are going to talk about coparenting this next session and then go back to MC, I believe.

[HrtHsbnd]

So last night during webchat didn’t go well. She wants me to get rid of any privileges I won legally, as well as let her have our son this holiday on my day. I said no to both, so she got really really mad.

I offered to let all 3 of us spend the evening together, which she declined.

I didn’t think I really engaged, but I didn’t pull back as fast or as much as I should’ve, so the situation just escalated itself into an argument. She still doesn’t think we are in MC, but rather coparenting. She still has SO MUCH ANGER AND HATRED towards me 4 months out and I just don’t understand it.

I just don’t know what to do anymore. An outsider would look at our conversations and see that I am being rational and thoughtful and she is just not. She told me that she just doesn’t feel good at all when I’m around her and her life [censored]. Seriously?!? I haven’t really spoken to her or seen her in 3-4 months, so how in the world can she feel that way?!?

I feel she is being very selfish, as it’s her way or the highway. This person is just not the person I fell in love with and married. She is a shell of her former self.

I would appreciate any advice or motivation.

[HrtHsbnd]

I have also been validating very well, which just drives her crazy. I didn’t do as good of a job last night, but I don’t think I did bad, either

[AnotherStander]

So last night during webchat didn’t go well. She wants me to get rid of any privileges I won legally, as well as let her have our son this holiday on my day. I said no to both, so she got really really mad.

Listen and validate but stick to your guns.

"It sounds like you are very frustrated, I'm sorry you're having a difficult time with this."

"So you'll let me have S?"

"No, I already have plans with him that day."

You can be polite and validate without giving in to her demands.

I offered to let all 3 of us spend the evening together, which she declined.

I wouldn't offer that, that's relationship pressure on her.

She still has SO MUCH ANGER AND HATRED towards me 4 months out and I just don’t understand it.

This is exactly what happens. She's not happy with her life, she doesn't know why, so you become the lightening rod for everything from her getting stuck in traffic this morning to that time she forgot to turn in her homework in the 3rd grade. It's all your fault, you you you. So you DETACH. You listen and validate, but you don't get sucked into the vortex.

I just don’t know what to do anymore. An outsider would look at our conversations and see that I am being rational and thoughtful and she is just not. She told me that she just doesn’t feel good at all when I’m around her and her life [censored]. Seriously?!? I haven’t really spoken to her or seen her in 3-4 months, so how in the world can she feel that way?!?

You continue to give her time and space. 4 months seems like forever to you but it's very short on a WAS timeline. She probably needs 3 or 4 times that before she'll realize you're not to blame for everything.

I feel she is being very selfish, as it’s her way or the highway.

Yes, all you can do in response is detach.

This person is just not the person I fell in love with and married.

EXACTLY RIGHT. That person you knew and loved may return some day, but for now you are dealing with an interloper and that's how you should view things. It's very much like dealing with a stranger. You see your old familiar W, but that's not who she is inside right now.

[HrtHsbnd]

AS, thank you for all your advice. It’s very helpful and I love reading it and following it. Please post here as much as you can!

Listen and validate but stick to your guns.

"It sounds like you are very frustrated, I'm sorry you're having a difficult time with this."

"So you'll let me have S?"

"No, I already have plans with him that day."

You can be polite and validate without giving in to her demands.

I am trying to do this and feel that I can always do a better job. I know that I didn’t do as well as I should’ve done last night because our conversation escalated into an argument. I was more concerned with getting my point across and being right than validating her, so I was wrong there. I feel like that’s tough because I want to get out what I need to say, but I guess it doesn’t really matter right now. I will keep at it so that it becomes second nature to me. I feel that I do better at this in text messages than on the phone, though.

I wouldn't offer that, that's relationship pressure on her.

I thought that suggesting she come along and going regardless was one of Sandi’s rules. If I misunderstood, when would something like be appropriate?

I have also invited her to different activities my son and I do once every time he’s with me. She always declines.

This is exactly what happens. She's not happy with her life, she doesn't know why, so you become the lightening rod for everything from her getting stuck in traffic this morning to that time she forgot to turn in her homework in the 3rd grade. It's all your fault, you you you. So you DETACH. You listen and validate, but you don't get sucked into the vortex.

This is very interesting for me and very educational. From reading the board, I guess I understood that this happens. I just didn’t think it would apply to my situation though. I can tell she’s not happy with her life, even though she won’t admit it. I feel she is depressed, too. She does blame me for everything and I cannot win no matter what I do.

I’m trying not to get sucked into the vortex, but it is very hard. In some ways I wish I could have practice so that I had experience with it when dealing with her!

Do we know why or have a good idea as to why she isn’t happy with her life?

You continue to give her time and space. 4 months seems like forever to you but it's very short on a WAS timeline. She probably needs 3 or 4 times that before she'll realize you're not to blame for everything.

You are right, AS. 4 months seems like FOREVER! She just keeps going on like it’s no big deal at all. I have worked so hard for so long that I have totally passed her by. I think she is finally starting to see that, but doesn’t seem ready to want to do anything about it yet.

As far as time, I do feel that I have a fair amount of time, but I don’t think I have that much time with the legal system.

Yes, all you can do in response is detach.

This is easier said than done because I feel that if I completely detach, I’ll be done. How can I do meta hair without letting that happen?

EXACTLY RIGHT. That person you knew and loved may return some day, but for now you are dealing with an interloper and that's how you should view things. It's very much like dealing with a stranger. You see your old familiar W, but that's not who she is inside right now.

You are so right and I do. I look at her and she just has a different look in her eyes to me. I have always taken care of her, protected her and helped her through anything and I want so badly to just take it all away, but she just won’t let me.

I know I can make it all better, too. I have a game plan, but getting her to want that game plan is a different issue.

[AnotherStander]

I feel like that’s tough because I want to get out what I need to say, but I guess it doesn’t really matter right now.

You and me both. I really want to be heard, and when I feel like someone isn't listening then I want to MAKE them hear me, LOL! I think that's a NGS thing and it's something I still wrestle with. But yes you are correct, it doesn't matter because she doesn't care right now. It's 100% about her. So listening and validating is the way to go. There's no pressure or confrontation in validation.

I thought that suggesting she come along and going regardless was one of Sandi’s rules. If I misunderstood, when would something like be appropriate?

Maybe I misunderstood but it sounded like she wanted S on your day, you refused, she pitched a fit, you invited her to spend the day with YOU and S. In other words "you only get S if you get me too" which is more along the lines of relationship pressure. Now if you were picking S up and he said "we're going to the zoo mom!" then you might say "you're welcome to join us if you wish." That's a little more neutral if that makes sense, it's more S focused which is the intent.

I have also invited her to different activities my son and I do once every time he’s with me. She always declines.

Yeah that sounds more like what I mean.

Do we know why or have a good idea as to why she isn’t happy with her life?

Short answer- no. Long answer- no.

4 months seems like FOREVER!

I know it does! But when you get as far down the road as me, it'll all seem like a distant, hazy memory. I know that's really hard to believe right now but it's true.

This is easier said than done because I feel that if I completely detach, I’ll be done.

I hear that a lot and I always wonder, what is so bad with being done with her? If you're "done" then you'll no longer hurt, and fret, and be anxious. Every one of the vets here will tell you- detachment is PEACE. It is zen. It is you being content NO MATTER WHAT happens to your M. Who wouldn't want that?

[HrtHsbnd]

You and me both. I really want to be heard, and when I feel like someone isn't listening then I want to MAKE them hear me, LOL! I think that's a NGS thing and it's something I still wrestle with. But yes you are correct, it doesn't matter because she doesn't care right now. It's 100% about her. So listening and validating is the way to go. There's no pressure or confrontation in validation.

I read the NGS, but I don’t think that’s really about me. I do some of those things, but not most of them. Listen and validate. Listen and validate.

Can I even start the conversation with her to ask her how her day was? If I don’t, I don’t think we will even talk.

Maybe I misunderstood but it sounded like she wanted S on your day, you refused, she pitched a fit, you invited her to spend the day with YOU and S. In other words "you only get S if you get me too" which is more along the lines of relationship pressure. Now if you were picking S up and he said "we're going to the zoo mom!" then you might say "you're welcome to join us if you wish." That's a little more neutral if that makes sense, it's more S focused which is the intent.

I understand and will continue to do what we had spoken about earlier.

You were right. She wanted him and I told her I thought we could all hang out together, but she refused.

Why would she do that?

Also, she is totally disgusted with me. Why does she feel that way?

I know it does! But when you get as far down the road as me, it'll all seem like a distant, hazy memory. I know that's really hard to believe right now but it's true.

Those first few weeks already seem like I was in a haze and I probably was in a haze. I don’t know how someone can do this and actually live with the self, especially her. She justifies it by saying she’s doing it for herself and what’s best for our child.

Why?!?

I hear that a lot and I always wonder, what is so bad with being done with her? If you're "done" then you'll no longer hurt, and fret, and be anxious. Every one of the vets here will tell you- detachment is PEACE. It is zen. It is you being content NO MATTER WHAT happens to your M. Who wouldn't want that?

This is just my feelings and I’m not judging anyone at all. I am a family man. I always have been and always hope to be. I took my vows seriously and I’m proud of my little family, even my wife. I’ll do anything to get them back, not from a place of codependency, but from a place of strength and pride.

[AnotherStander]

I read the NGS, but I don’t think that’s really about me. I do some of those things, but not most of them. Listen and validate. Listen and validate.

Most who read it will not identify with the majority of it. For me it was maybe 1/3. But that 1/3 really hit home and is constantly on my mind.

Can I even start the conversation with her to ask her how her day was? If I don’t, I don’t think we will even talk.

Respect her need for time and space. If she doesn't start a convo then guess what, it's because she doesn't want to talk to you. Has there ever been someone in your life that just really grated on your nerves? Someone that was always trying to start a conversation and you really just wanted to slap them into next week? Yeah that's how she sees you right now.

You were right. She wanted him and I told her I thought we could all hang out together, but she refused.

Why would she do that?

Because she doesn't want to be around you. I'm sorry if some of these things hurt, but they are your reality right now and the sooner you understand then the sooner you can go about detaching.

This is just my feelings and I’m not judging anyone at all. I am a family man. I always have been and always hope to be. I took my vows seriously and I’m proud of my little family, even my wife. I’ll do anything to get them back, not from a place of codependency, but from a place of strength and pride.

So you love her that much huh? Let me ask you something, if you love someone that finds you repulsive, doesn't want to be around you, doesn't want to talk to you and generally just hates your presence then what would be the ULTIMATE SHOW OF LOVE????? What would it be? Would it be to constantly get in their face, temp check, invite them to stuff, start convos, etc.? Or would it be to LET THEM GO? Please understand that you are actively pushing YOUR agenda, not HERS. That is NOT love. You want to love her? Then respect her desire to have time and space from you.

[HrtHsbnd]

So the W and I got into an argument today about MC. She thinks it’s Coparenting, but I know it’s MC.

When I’ve told her I’ve done everything to work on our M so far and I didn’t feel that she’s done anything, she told me that she’s going to therapy. What else did I want from her? Neither of us were being aggressive or arguing.

The therapist has told me that several times. In addition, when she brings it up he always shy’s away from it and calls it relationship counseling, MC, etc.

We don’t talk about parenting. We don’t talk about our child. We only talk about our relationship and what it will take for us to drop the D.

Anyone know why she thinks that it’s Coparenting and not MC?