I am really well. Everything is going fine with me. I have some concerns about Eldest - mentioned on my thread - but day to day things are peaceful. I see H quite a lot - every other day or so - but I don't invite him into the house when he picks up or drops off, and if he's civil I will exchange a brief pleasantry and if he's angling for a fight or critical or moody, or I just don't feel like putting the energy into it, I focus all my attention on Youngest and leave it at that. I veer between pity and anger and sometimes still fear, but those feelings are very manageable.
That is so wonderful about your sons. I love to imagine you on your ranch with some fine young men who love and cherish you around you. I hope you let them coddle you a little bit, and you can have chances to coddle them right back.
I love your discussion of how you've grown through therapy, Hope, it's great to see. And you are putting in good boundaries there with other men and with protecting yourself emotionally in the situation with your friend. As women we get the message that we should always be nice and be there for others, and it takes a long time to get out of that mindset when it's not healthy for us.
That's so true, Dilly. And I wonder if it's the reason why we women get into such hot water when we try validating our socks off. It might be better advice for men, who (vast, probably unfair generalisation alert!!) perhaps are sometimes more likely to have a history of ignoring or dismissing or not understanding the feelings and emotional experiences of their wives. But women are socialised into performing that service from the cradle. Perhaps we women need to concentrate a bit more on saying no and setting boundaries - something that, as you say, we're often illequipped to do.
You both are so right, as women we are told to be there, be sweet, be a lady...etc. But you know my friend completely accepted my 'no' and then asked if we might go for a movie sometime. I was elated. Sometimes a no is met with hostility (they feel rejected, I get it) but in good, healthy, honest relationships 'no' is not only accepted, it's a form of comfort because you never have to guess with people.
H was here when I got home today. Met me outside as I pulled in and unloaded the groceries for me and then continued to flirt with me the entire evening. I strung him along and thoroughly enjoyed myself. He left and gave me the biggest, longest hug he has given me in 2 years.
I am not reading into it. I'd like to think he missed me while he was gone, or he could really enjoy the smell of sawdust, sweat and feed. lol It was nice to be pursued, not gonna lie. He asked me if I would lay with him in the hammock, I said sure and he picked me up like a bride. We lay there for a while. Not really talking, just being.
He is physically VERY drawn to me. I try not to think too much on it and just enjoy it. I feel good tonight. He left a little while ago. It's strange, but it's like my new normal. I asked him if he wanted some fruit because I didn't want it to go bad and I'm the only one who eats it and he said he'd take some with him tomorrow.
The trick to this, for me, is having ZERO expectations for him. I've said it before and I really want to emphasize it because it has helped me. What a terrific day that I was able to spend with an old friend. I don't know if/when I will see 'him' again, but I sure did like the visit today. Tomorrow, who knows? I have plans so I don't know if I will be here or not. Depends on what I want to do. I'm feeling like no matter what, I'm in a great place.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
You sound like you are doing really well and have a lot of things to keep you busy. Really practicing your PMA too which is so tough to do consistently. My only caution would be to be careful that your H isn't doing a lot of cake eating as it won't motivate him to make any changes or decisions. However, I do completely understand the lure and appeal of being with your "old" H when he makes an appearance. Just make sure you keep your expectations at zero. (((HUGS)))
I think you're doing really well, 97Hope - and your PMA is inspirational. I also worry about cake-eating.
I can't say I've ever understood the concept, really. I get it that a H who leaves and doesn't want to be in a marriage has no right at all to still get the benefits of marriage. When it comes to sex, wife-work, etc etc - that all makes sense to me. In my situation, my H coming to tea a couple of times a week and being waited on while he was grumpy, rude and sometimes verbally abusive was definitely cake-eating.
But where do we draw the line? When your H comes over and is friendly and affectionate and wants to get some affection and warmth and friendship from you, is that cake-eating? Is that him taking what he needs without offering anything in the way of real commitment in return? Would it be better for you to freeze him out and act as if he's 'the accountant' (as I know I suggested earlier). Or does returning affection once given, and making a space for those small friendly interactions as and when they happen mean you're keeping the door open and leaving the path home paved smooth?
I don't know what the answer is and I've really struggled with the concept because it seems to make love so transactional. 'I'll only show you love and kindness if you show the correct amount of remorse and commit to the marriage in ways that I decide matter to me,' does not sound like love or marriage or kindness to me.
But then I DB terribly, so I am not making a suggestion, only raising a point for discussion and advice from those more clear headed and experienced.
(((Deja)))) Yes. ZERO expectations! Too true!! The cake-eating thing is tricky, isn't it? I'm stuck between cake-eating and 180 land. One of my biggest 180's was to not be emotionally erratic, H pointed it out early on and he wasn't wrong. He didn't feel safe with me. For the past 2 years I have been steady-Eddie. So I don't always know when it crosses the line to cake-eating, and him sniffing around to see if I'm safe.
I've worked very hard on my emotional stability and I feel amazing. So while I wonder if I'm feeding him cake, I also know that he's mentally and physically in a bad way. I can be a rock right now and if he's cake-eating, then I think, that's on him. Now, I don't go crazy or anything, he still pays the bills (as he should!) and does a lot around here for me (also as he should) but he is also taking care of a lot of other things for me: he picks up and delivers my dry-cleaning, he cooks dinner for me, he still fills up my gas tank, he asks me every time we talk how I feel, how's my job, how everything is. He wants to give me 'go nowhere' back rubs...I could go on. If he's eating cake, so am I. Maybe that's my problem?
It's a weird sitch. I have to apply DB principles as best I can. I certainly don't do it perfectly (CAGD) but he is very drawn to me and I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. There was a time where he completely went dark and I left him alone. I just stopped everything. He slowly started coming back, and I think I let him too far back in, because he bolted like a bunny and lost his head. While I try to temp-check him, I worry that I'm too focused on him, so I default to doing what I feel good about doing and leave him to manage it on his own.
Alison, you know you are not alone!!! This is exactly the thought that goes through my mind!! The 'transactional' relationship. If I'm honest, H does more for me now than ever. We have dated more in the past 6 months than the past 10 years. I think it's because he felt me let him go. I truly have no expectations right now. I really don't know some days if he could ever be the man I want long-term. He has a lot to work through. So it's like we are dating, and feeling each other out. I know for a fact I don't want our old MR back, but this one? It's really nice. I don't know if I"m delusional or well-adjusted, and I'm not sure I want to know!!
Advice from the vets always appreciated.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I think I've pinpointed what it is I struggle to understand about cake-eating.
So, in a committed relationship, it's fair for each person to expect certain things of the other - marriage is a contract as well as a covenant. I'm going to be my husband's wife, with all that that entails, on the assumption he's also going to be my husband. One or both of us might drop the ball from time to time and neglect our responsibilities, but generally, that's how it is and we both commit to that and agree on it.
Then BD happens. Marriage as we know it is dead. We might struggle to accept that, but eventually, we do. Which means husband does not want to be a husband, so he doesn't get a wife. Yes - that makes sense to me.
But the wife - she stands and waits. She's faithful. And eventually R starts to happen. Which doesn't involve resurrecting an old marriage, but building a new one. Dating.
And dating might look a lot like cake-eating - two people trying to size each other up, offering just a little, coming close then moving away again to process, to think, to recover. If I was dating someone and there was some form of 'no, we're not going to hold hands and watch the sunset together unless you commit to marriage and all that entails, today,' or 'no, I won't respond to any of your messages unless they contain a direct question about money and then I will reply with a one word answer and that won't change until you promise me commitment and fidelity and husbandly care and cherishing for the rest of our lives,' then it would be a CRAZY situation. How can the LBS know they want to R unless they get a little closer to the WS and see what is on offer? How can the WS decide if they do want to R unless they get a little closer to the LBS and see what has changed?
I'm not in that situation myself, obviously, and my H was very clearly offering not much at all so the situation is clearer with me and him than it is with you. But I can well see why it is an incredibly difficult line to draw out.
Reading this with interest. That emotional stability is something I am really struggling with at the moment, I was there for a while but I've had a spiralling recently, and that is no good for anyone. I'm glad you have that, hope. You sound like you're being thoughtful about your interactions, which is good. I know it's not possible to keep expectations at zero, but maybe low expectations and no thoughts about the future is where it's at?
