Making the best of the mess.

[97Hope]

I've been having some fun with my gf on the response...ideas:

“Everything is fine. I’ll let you know if there are any issues. Have to run, making chocolate chip pancakes”

"we had a fire all is flat"

"just back here waiting for you to have the courage to be all in in this marriage"

[BluWave]

And for the record, I can certainly swing as many 2*4s at myself (and I do!) as I can at all of you. I promise -- I can dish it out and I can take it! Has anyone read much about Gottman and contempt? Well, it is the worst thing in any relationship and the number one marriage killer. So here I am -- I got the H back that we all want and he is doing all the right stuff -- yet I am still over 4 years later full of resentment and contempt. It has been a huge struggle.

97Hope, I am not sure if I have read all of your thread, but instead of a 2*4, I do have some advice for those struggling with detachment. Most of my advice I would like to have given my previous self back in my post-BD days but cannot of course. Always keep your head above your heart. By that I mean to base your actions on thoughts and not feelings or emotions, and mainly fear. Fear is the killer.

The emotions and feelings are all over the place when we have been hurt, and they are not rational. When you look back on choices you have made in your life, you will often feel better about the ones that were well thought out and planned. That is even harder to do when you are in crisis mode and flooded with emotions every day. However, it is not impossible. It just takes work, dedication and some grit.

I like to steer people back to Sandi's rules because those are all the choices and decisions already made for us -- it is the blue print of how to "act" without allowing the emotions to take over. I would challenge myself to read them every day and sometimes I would read them multiple times a day. That way when I had to see H or interact with him, I could hopefully respond on autopilot.

What about all those times you really do not know what to say, do, or how to reply? I know a lot people here are big on validation and reading the validation threads. I just would caution you guys on that because validating is one thing, however enabling bad behavior or allowing abuse is quite another. We teach people how to treat us (by what we allow) and we have to value ourselves enough to demand people treat us well if they want to be around us.


But still, what about those times you still do not know what to say, or how to reply? Well that is where you put your head above your heart. Don't form your reactions based on anything you feel, used to feel or want to feel about your S. What would you tell your best friend, assuming you feel nothing for her/his S? What would your solid, unbiased, no agenda, advise be? Chances are you know what the best thing to do or say is, but you allow your fear to constantly get in the way. So take control of the fear. Be stronger than it. Because here is the thing, you have nothing to fear -- you have already lost them. The only fear is the fear itself.

Blu

[97Hope]

Has anyone read much about Gottman and contempt? Well, it is the worst thing in any relationship and the number one marriage killer. So here I am -- I got the H back that we all want and he is doing all the right stuff -- yet I am still over 4 years later full of resentment and contempt. It has been a huge struggle.

Contempt is part of the reason we are where we are. My part. H and I have been down this road before and when we reconciled, I had all the contempt in the world and acted as if I had forgiven him, until I learned how to truly forgive.

My fear is that I am spoon-feeding him the cake. I fully believe that I have been allowing WAY too much cake-eating (I eat it with him and it feels good until it doesn't) So I'm in a new area. Friend zoned with benefits. If I had a friend that treated me like he does, I would have already blocked their number. But if my accountant called I would tell him no damage. So that's what I did. 5 hours later.

It's good that you are plentiful with the 2x4's - when you give advice, you are somewhat forced to follow your own advice. I've seen that in my life.

[97Hope]

Journaling,

MAJOR eye roll. Have you ever read 'if you give a mouse a cookie' or it's companion book "if you give a moose a muffin"? That's what it's like with H. I answered his text about the storm. Next "do you know how much rain we got?" "no" do you have any checks? "no". Now wants to chat about the guy building the barn and how he has been slow in getting it built and quick to ask for payment. I responded with "sounds about right". THIS is how I get sucked in. While these aren't temp checks per se, I do feel like he texts me like nothing is going on. Because for the most part, he acts like NOTHING is going on.

I am just as guilty. Now, how do I get off this ride?

Let me know if you think I'm reading into this too much, or maybe I should have told him that I'd like some time alone?

I don't want to be cold or ugly (that's not how I'm feeling) I just don't want to be bothered with the trivial stuff. I'm not his friend right now.

[Goddess8]

97Hope,

I feeling exactly this everytime my H texts me or comes to the house to get the kids and is all chatty. Like what the fluff guy?!?! You are having an affair why are you acting like nothing is wrong with this picture. I feel like instead of spoon feeding cake I might as well be ladling it down with throat while he lays back. At the same time i do feel he cares. I could be completely off base. Add me to the crap at going dark list

[dillydaf]

Hope: just take your sweet time answering those texts, if you bother at all. My H often uses the weather to get in touch with me. He'll text me 'looks like a nice day' and I sigh and think I want to be married to someone I can have a proper conversation with (in person) not someone who texts me about hours of sunshine.
The texts are 'are you still there for me?', and we're texting back 'yes, I'm still here and waiting for you'. Maybe think whether that's the message you want to be sending? If you're DBing you should probably be too busy laughing and having fun with your new friends and hobbies to be debating yourself about whether or how to answer texts.*

*I'm much better at theory than practice, maybe we need to pretend to be each other!

[SoloUk]

Goddness, hope and dilly add me to that list yep something benign and then before you know it texts back and forth about crap. Goddness I love that image as it is exactly me, all chatty feel like I should just say you sit down in your favourite chair whilst I bring you a range of your favourite cakes and I will feed them to you. Well I will shove them all in your mouth, till you cant speak anymore.
Hope i loved your accountant annology, use that. You are talking to much, god me to and i know we dont want to be rude, but we are not there for them to ease their guilt. Look we can be friends erm no not at this time, whether we are in the future will be my choice. Dont enable him with boring text messages, you have more important things to do with your life.

[AlisonUK]

I know a lot people here are big on validation and reading the validation threads. I just would caution you guys on that because validating is one thing, however enabling bad behavior or allowing abuse is quite another. We teach people how to treat us (by what we allow) and we have to value ourselves enough to demand people treat us well if they want to be around us.

This is so useful for me, Blu. I know I've worked really hard on validating, and all its done is made me a sitting target for more abuse. I've found it very difficult to distinguish between verbal abuse and someone telling me about their anger and me being able to validate it. I can see the roots of that in my childhood. The moment when I realised that there was a difference between angry behaviour and a conversation where feelings are described, I was able to make process.

It's a moot point now, because I don't feel like validating H's feelings - whatever they may be - anymore. I'd rather spend the energy on myself and my children.

But I think you've hit the nail on the head with this statement. I can see validation is an essential tool in marriages where one spouse has ignored the other's feelings and complaints for a long time. But others of us have been soaking up anger or resentment for years and it's healthier to put an end to that.

I think of validation as a 'supply' that I give to people. I think in some cases the Wh or W gets a bit addicted to that 'supply' and the validation only helps them carry on spewing, it moves nothing forward in any good direction.

[97Hope]

Dilly,

I thought the same thing about pretending to be each other, that's why I've been more active here. Reading your sitch, I can tell you exactly how to act!! Then I'm stumped on a text message!!

Solo,

We will order you a shirt CAGD 'crap at going dark' but the membership requires that you start doing better now! No more cake-feeders.

Alison,
That is so true re: validation. Doesn't sound like now is the time to be validating any of these fools!! They need to sit in their pig-pens by themselves. I felt a shift when validating in my sitch went south. My H was just going on and on and I stopped him and said, "I can't listen to your list of complaints about me anymore. You have spoken, I have listened. Enough". At that moment it was no longer about saving our MR (which was already past dead, I just didn't know it) but about what was good and beneficial to me. For a time, it was appropriate to validate during our R convos. But after a point, it turned into me being a whipping post for every bad thing in his life. That crosses a line.

I hope you know where that line is for you. Any past trauma or abuse can make it hard to see. I strongly suggest IC for you so that you know what to look for.

Believe it or not, we can become acclimated to things that are wrong. I didn't realize how consistently my H invalidated me, and that's a terrible awful thing to do to a person. I didn't realize what was wrong, just that something wasn't right, until I understood what healthy relationship looked like. Since I'm now aware of it, I simply don't accept it. And I certainly don't let him read the list of my iniquities off to me. I am aware of what they are and I'm focused on being the best me. Certainly wouldn't take his advice at any rate on what makes a "good person" based on his current behavior.

[AlisonUK]

Hi 97Hope

I guess it's about being constructive, isn't it? If the context of the conversation was 'here's how I feel when you do x and I would like x instead' then I'd listen to that, and validate, even if I didn't agree or wasn't able or willing to do x. The spirit of the statement is constructive. But I'm done with listening to 'look! a dead houseplant! one more example of how you are a terrible person, and I need to remind you of this while sitting on your sofa and eating your food because I am feeling terrible and you need to be responsible for it!' - the line has well and truly been found for me (I've been in IC for over two years and it has taken a long time!).

And I'm with you on not knowing what is wrong. I guess neither H nor me had much emotional intelligence when we got together. Love and good luck gets you so far but when life happens, you need skills that neither of us had. I think I am working on developing them - at least I hope I am - and the healthier I get the less appealing he is to me. That is sad, but I accept that's the reality of where we are right now and where we will probably be for a very long time, unless I decide to divorce him - which to be honest feels more likely by the day.

You sound in excellent spirits. Any GAL plans?