If you can't beat em, cheat em (thread 2)

[sandi2]

I do agree that she's gone, so I'm not willing to push them underground until I have the evidence collected that I need, though, which is why I'm staying the course. Based on what I've discussed with legal counsel, I know what I need, and I don't quite have it yet.

Sounds rather mysterious. Is your lawyer telling you that evidence is required for the D, or to protect you financially? I'm just trying to understand.

You have not said how you know it went to PA, only that she they went to his house. Did you have someone follow her, or did you read some texts they wrote each other.....or just observing them from the workplace? You are documenting when they leave work together, but this doesn't actually prove they had sex. More than likely, they are in a PA.......but I'm asking if you are certain in your heart, or if you need more evidence for yourself?

From the stories I've read, most LBH's initially say that a PA is the deal breaker. Then they discover the PA, and they get angry, try to convince themselves they deserve better, don't find the WW so attractive, don't really desire sex with her, etc., etc., etc. However, they don't pull the plug. They carry the information around. Which it's okay if they aren't certain what they want. I'm just stating some common things I've noticed.

The other thing that stands out to me with many LBH's is how quickly they start mentioning dating or finding someone new. I usually mark it down to the fact their esteem has been crushed and they want to know that other women find them attractive. I do wonder why the rush, when they haven't even gotten out of the M with their current W. I suppose it may be how the LBH processes things.........but IDK. I try to learn about the mindset of betrayed H's, just like you guys want to learn about the WW.

((hugs)) I'm sorry you are going through this pain. Whatever the outcome, I hope you rise from the experience as a man who likes who he has become, and who no longer is dependent upon another person to define his value, his maleness, attractiveness, or his happiness.

Take the time you need. This is your life, and one of the most important decisions you'll ever make.

[Hallzy9]

Just wanted to give my opinion on why LBS want to start dating or seeing other woman so quickly. I don’t speak for everyone but the reason I am rushing into dating is because my W doesn’t seem to want an R with me. That being the case, I am going to act like a single man and interact with other single woman. Also, in my mind, I could not R with my W in the future knowing that I did not interact with woman if she was interacting with other men. Sort of leveling the playing field so to speak.

I imagine there are some thoughts that seeing another woman can help the LBS to detach. That when they see that there are other interesting and attractive woman out there they will have less of a hard time moving on from the W.

There is probably an aspect about being wanted again. A lot of LBS feel hurt and unwanted after their W decided the single life or OM was better than being with the H. You are accurate in your view on self esteem and confidence. If the LBS sees there are woman who are interested in them, they will gain confidence that their world isn’t over with the leaving of their W, and that life will go on.

[IHCLACS]

^^^^^ What this man said!! Also. At least for me anyways, its also about rebuilding social circles, and having new experiences, as well as feeling wanted again, boosting ego, self worth, ect, to move on.

[SoTorn]

Just wanted to give my opinion on why LBS want to start dating or seeing other woman so quickly. I don’t speak for everyone but the reason I am rushing into dating is because my W doesn’t seem to want an R with me. That being the case, I am going to act like a single man and interact with other single woman. Also, in my mind, I could not R with my W in the future knowing that I did not interact with woman if she was interacting with other men. Sort of leveling the playing field so to speak.

I imagine there are some thoughts that seeing another woman can help the LBS to detach. That when they see that there are other interesting and attractive woman out there they will have less of a hard time moving on from the W.

There is probably an aspect about being wanted again. A lot of LBS feel hurt and unwanted after their W decided the single life or OM was better than being with the H. You are accurate in your view on self esteem and confidence. If the LBS sees there are woman who are interested in them, they will gain confidence that their world isn’t over with the leaving of their W, and that life will go on.

I decided in January that I was going to be open to meeting new women. I ended up meeting a woman 13 years younger. its nuts that she is more mature than my EXWW. She is very sweet and very nice. Meeting her honestly showed me that there are plenty of women in this world that will be happy to be in your life.

Ill be heading out of town to visit my new GF after work today. Looking forward to it.

[Davide]

I think the question of whether or not to date and when to begin doing so is a personal one, so I only feel comfortable talking about my own personal experience.

Dating has helped me detach and focus more on my future and less on my past. Without a doubt. It can be a form of GAL as well. Interacting with people in a social environment is crucial. It is easy at times to fall into the trap of social isolation when we are grieving.

I am very wary of dating for the wrong reasons. And I think I have been guilty of this at times. I don't think it should be used as a way to rebuild your self-worth, nor as a distraction from the pain associated with the grieving process. I do think that a lot of the growth and work we do on ourselves has to be done alone. I firmly believe that taking responsibility for our own lives and our own happiness is absolutely crucial in this process. I don't want to look outward for validation that should be located within. That is the recipe for an unhealthy or even co-dependent relationship.

I started dating about 7 months post BD. At the time I felt like I was operating from a place of strength, that I had a love and positive energy to share and wanted to find people I could do that with. I also came to realize that forming a family (my EW and I had no children) was something important to me as I moved on to the next phase of my life. I also looked at it as an opportunity to practice vulnerability -- putting myself out there with no guarantee of success but letting my true self be seen. It was also great to be able to put into practice the idea of approaching these dates with no expectations. My metric for success was not meeting the love of my life, but rather simply having an interesting conversation. Looking back now, I don't know that I was ready to be in a long-term relationship at that point (I'm still not sure if I am there) but I am happy with the intentionality and thoughtfulness that I brought to the process.

However I have also found that at times I have allowed dating to become a distraction from the work I still need to keep doing on myself. I have also found that I have at times let my self-worth become tied up in it, and let expectations creep back in. It is hard not to revert back to familiar patterns even if we recognize how unhealthy they are for us.

I would simply encourage all LBS' to be reflective and intentional about why they are dating and what they are looking to get out of it. Does it align with your core values?

[SoTorn]

Meeting my new GF helped me detach 100%. I actually read an article on Psychology that talks about people who are betrayed getting to a much healthier point emotionally and mentally when they completely move on from being an LBS by dating.

I agree with the article 100% because I am happy now not only with myself but with my new relationship. I wanted to move on and I feel fortunate that I met my GF when I did because she made it much easier to do so.

[Wanted1]

Meeting my new GF helped me detach 100%. I actually read an article on Psychology that talks about people who are betrayed getting to a much healthier point emotionally and mentally when they completely move on from being an LBS by dating.

I agree with the article 100% because I am happy now not only with myself but with my new relationship. I wanted to move on and I feel fortunate that I met my GF when I did because she made it much easier to do so.

Agree completely, ST. Same situation for me. I needed to detach in the worst way and it helped do just that.

[SteveLW]

Starting a new relationship before dealing emotionally with the previous one is not healthy. And will lead to problems in the new relationship eventually. Most guys think they have to do that from a sexual standpoint. Believe it or not you can survive for a few weeks or a few months without sex.

Good luck to both of you, but proper detachment is not going from one attachment to another. That's a good way to setup another future BD. Detachment is about finding happiness inward. There will be time to "move on" with someone new once you find peace and contentment by yourself.

[oops13]

All of you have written so much, and I've only got a few minutes (GAL too effectively lately).

I dont know if there's much to say besides she's following the cheater's playbook to a T. I'm still being as strong of a person as I can, albeit imperfectly, while also keeping on the mask of ignorance (giving some affection, R talking some when she initiates which has only been once, saying "i love you too" if she says it first, doing a cake thing here or there like going out to eat). Shes loosening up some and putting on the show still. Perhaps there are echoes of truth but I dont let myself believe anything she says or does.

Our one R talk was initiated by her. I took the bait a little more than I should have. I held my composure. She again said I was a stranger (in the sexual context) because I've changed so much in good ways. I simply agreed. She says shes only worried about sex, leaning somewhat on me being a stranger - shes fine with me touching her, small kisses, hugs, cuddling, etc. but if it's sexual (e.g. if I have a boner) or deep making out kissing, boob touching, etc. she panics and feels fight or flight. I validated, told her I'd respect that boundary but that I'm aware it's the friend zone and I can't live that way. She said she was mad that I seem to be so happy and fine and strong and like this is all easy for me, while she is in pieces and a heap and needing psych help. I validated, assured her that it only looks easy for me because I chose to confront the situation and not let it kill me. She asked if I wanted her to move out, I told her no but I wouldn't stop her. She said she wanted to stay, wanted the marriage. I agreed and asked if she'd like to sleep in the spare bedroom in turn, she said no she doesn't want that either. She said she didn't want to make any big decisions until shes on medication, and that she didn't want to leave me with the burden of managing the house alone. I told her she has to do what she has to do. She said despite her "issues" I'm very attractive and would find someone immediately if we do split. I told her I didn't disagree, but that I meant my wedding vows and had never been interested in marriage before her, and the whole point of marriage and the vows is that we admit we're flawed and that we do. not. quit. The subject turned to one of our very old pets who needs to be put down soon. She didn't want to leave him while he needs us so much and didn't want to leave while he's still here in his last moments. At this point, thinking about my buddy, I started to cry. I held strong considering all that came before, but putting him down is going to be hard. I stayed strong through the tears too. She cuddled up against me and laid on my chest and we each candidly noted that we wished we'd realized that we couldn't bank on "being special" and that marriage was actually more work than we thought. We each said we never thought this would happen to us. We each said we loved each other, I let her go first every time though.

Obviously not perfect. I shouldn't have even engaged. But I'm not mad at myself, I'm still hanging tough day to day and talks are going to happen. If anything shes opening up more but again it might be manipulation.

We had a family even later that day she was invited to. She clung to me quite a bit and was touchy even. When she got in bed she cuddled up against me for a couple of hours (I didnt react). She grabbed and held my hand this morning when she could sense that I was thinking hard. I was thinking about how I wish she'd just move out but kept it to myself. Anger over the sexual rejection. Said she loved me a couple times this morning too.

Ive been mad and gone through every possible emotion. I still love her though. I miss her. I'd give anything for things to be different. I hate that I have to ride the middle ground of being a strong man that still gives her some cake right now.

I've gotten some attention from other women, but what's hard for me at this stage is mourning the death of an ideal. I think I've realized that a woman can never love me unconditionally, or the way I want to love and be loved. I will never be allowed to be my broken, weak self around someone. This woman adored me, and she lost interest because she lost respect, because I lost my mojo. The world is cruel everywhere. I thought love was the one exception. I thought I was safe with her, forever, I'd always have her. How wrong I was, and how wrong of me it would be to believe anything like the ideal we are sold can ever exist. She, like everyone else, is an opportunist. Vows don't mean [censored] once the feelings change. I love her and miss her, but this would be a lot harder if I thought this was just unique and what I thought I had existed. It just doesn't. I'm grieving my worldview and regrettably and painfully coming to accept a much emptier, depressing one.

[SteveLW]

"I will never be allowed to be my broken, weak self around someone."

This isn't true. We all are broken and weak. The difference between being broken and weak and attractive, and being broken and weak and unattractive is whether or not we wallow in our broken and weak. Broken and weak and working on it is always more attractive than broken and weak and saying "oh well, woe is me".

oops, what exactly are you waiting for on letting her know you know? I think the R talk she initiated was the perfect time.

Her: "Do you want me to move out?"
You: "As long as there is someone else, yes."
Her: "What?"
You: "I know what is going on. And I want you out of the bedroom and into guest bedroom at a minimum. If you can swing moving out, even better."
Her: "But what about us?"
You: "There is no us with someone else in the picture."
Her: "What do I need to do to fix this?!"
You: "You need to prove to me that it is through for good. I want to be with you when you send him a cease and desist message. I want full transparency from here on out. And then I will need to see that it stays that way for some time before I am ready to recommit back to "us"".