Expecting BD soon #3

[unchien]

Lots of advice here about my desperation and neediness.

Outwardly I am not acting particularly needy to W. Mostly giving her space, validating, and when we do talk (about the kids or logistics for the week) staying positive and mostly listening. I do think a lot about doing things which would be anti-DB though, and I journal them here a lot.

Inwardly yes I am struggling. Improving, but struggling.

I try to stay super positive and act happy. It is hard when you are emotionally cut off, feeling used, feeling unsupported, unwanted. But I'm trying my best. I'm sure at times she can see through it.

The attractiveness question is hard. We used to go on dates, we watched movies together, we snuggled, we laughed, we shared feelings with each other. I showed her that I cared about her feelings, but most importantly, she shared openly. I was not an alpha male, and she isn't attracted to that. I was there for her, and she was there for me. Now we have 3 kids and a history of hurt. I'm in good physical shape. I don't think becoming attractive is the fix.

It still seems counter-intuitive to see a problem in a M and deliberately let it go. Rather than try to fix it.

[unchien]

sandi2 posted something on another thread here that got me thinking...

Should I move over to the MLC forum? Reasons:

- no EA/PA in my sitch
- W 39
- W has a ton of doctor appointments last 2 years, hormonal issues ongoing
- disruptive move 2 years ago
- W career disrupted, FT SAHM for last 2 years
- 3 young kids (2 not in school yet)

[AnotherStander]

The attractiveness question is hard. We used to go on dates, we watched movies together, we snuggled, we laughed, we shared feelings with each other. I showed her that I cared about her feelings, but most importantly, she shared openly.

Rewind back a little farther. Don't try and be the person you were during your early dating, that's not what I'm saying. Be the person you were BEFORE the dating. What did she find attractive before you started dating?

I'm in good physical shape. I don't think becoming attractive is the fix.

Physical condition is just one part of attractiveness. Don't be so quick to assume you are the ultimate example of attractiveness, if you were she wouldn't be treating you like she doesn't care. Confidence, charisma, magnetism, those are the things I'm talking about.

It still seems counter-intuitive to see a problem in a M and deliberately let it go. Rather than try to fix it.

Who said not to fix it? "Now we have 3 kids and a history of hurt." You are hopefully working on that history of hurt, doing 180's on your contributions to that hurt. THAT is the work you need to do. Not applying pressure on her with constant temperature checks and R discussions.

[unchien]

AS -

What she found most attractive was the connection when we talked. Before we dated we were friends for a few months. During that time we had deep conversations and really shared intimate details about our lives. We had both gone through bad breakups. It was a deep connection. It helped that there was a physical attraction, and we had fun, but more than anything it was those conversations. Over time our R evolved into an obvious mutual attraction and things just sailed along.

I don't think physical attraction has anything to do with my sitch right now. There's no obvious 180 there for me.

Regarding the hurt - yes I am doing 180s the best I can. I am taking on more responsibility at home, flexing my work hours so I can be with the kids more, also giving her a huge amount of space. She noticed I did a little bit extra this weekend, which was nice. Not because it means anything for our R, but just that it is a worthwhile 180 and gives me extra motivation to keep plugging away.

None of this may matter if she has tagged me with the abuse label. I talked a lot about this in my earlier posts and don't want to start rehashing everything.

If she thinks I'm an abuser, that may have sealed my fate already and I'm just not getting the message. Heck... she may end up filing an RO, or trying to get sole custody. It scares the heck out of me. I spent the month of April really digging into my behaviors and patterns. I admitted to some emotional abuse in my letters too W. These were primarily me begging for reassurance and getting emotionally histrionic even when she told me to stop.

Classic NGS behavior... Fear of abandonment, emotional codependency. I'm not fixed but I am working on it. FOA -- well I've been facing that down for a couple months now, I think I'm learning that abandonment is real and I just have to deal with it. In some sense this crisis is curing me. For emotional codependency, the obvious 180 here is to detach and not be dragged about by my W's emotions. Whether that changes her mind about me, that is outside my control.

[LB55]

The last 24 hours, a heavy reality is setting in for me. How many stories have I read here which actually involve reconciliation? Maybe 1-2%? And of those 2%, the sitches seem completely different from mine. Thread upon thread of hopeful newcomers coming in, only to face D down the road regardless. Many if not most people are stronger from coming here, some are not.

U

So this isn't a story from this website to my knowledge. I have a friend in the military, he and his W got so bad, couldn't talk, she BD'd him, he panicked, didn't know what to do, did all the dumb stuff we talk about on here; they went through a nasty divorce, got their house foreclosed, lost almost everything. He went wild for a couple years, she did her thing, and two years after getting divorced, they decided to get back together. They've been at it for the second time for over 10 years now, and there is no looking back. He likes to joke that he has been married, divorced, and married a second time all with the same woman. Their kids are grown now and doing well, and he and his W are happy together. It can happen.

I don't think that anyone should take solace in that story and definitely shouldn't think of it as a guarantee that one can work it out, but hope is always a good thing when in a dark place.

I am having a tough time in my sitch too, I spend less time in these cheeseless tunnels, but I still go there once in a while.

I want my W back like nobody could believe. You know who I want back just as much? ME. I've become such a spineless sap that caves to whatever she wants or doesn't want all the time. Its hard to rebuild that muscle and stand up straight again. We are all having a tough time no matter where we are at in this horrible cycle. I struggle at times, recently I have been struggling, then I will go for a month without too much struggle. Its a cycle, hopefully I can go a couple months without struggling soon. Hopefully you can get there too.

I'm with everyone else. Stop writing letters and pursuing. If you can get those letters back, get them back and burn them. My WW used mine to claim all sorts of things in court to take away the kids, get more money, etc...we aren't final yet but all these mental health evals and alcohol evals are a pain and are expensive. All for problems I don't have. She blamed me for everything under the sun, i admitted to all kinds of crazy stuff in a letter, hoped she would see my change and come back and help me through my tough times. She promptly gave said letter to her lawyer as enclosure 1. Don't give her anymore ability to use a victim mentality against you. Don't F yourself with more pursuit. My $0.02.

[unchien]

I'm with everyone else. Stop writing letters and pursuing. If you can get those letters back, get them back and burn them. My WW used mine to claim all sorts of things in court to take away the kids, get more money, etc...we aren't final yet but all these mental health evals and alcohol evals are a pain and are expensive. All for problems I don't have. She blamed me for everything under the sun, i admitted to all kinds of crazy stuff in a letter, hoped she would see my change and come back and help me through my tough times. She promptly gave said letter to her lawyer as enclosure 1. Don't give her anymore ability to use a victim mentality against you. Don't F yourself with more pursuit. My $0.02.

Even if I found them, she would have copied them. This is my true worst-case scenario - W trying to get sole custody, RO, the whole bit. I admitted to a lot in those letters, I was apologizing, trying to win my W back. I don't think any of it would hold up, but I'm sure she could make the process more difficult and use the leverage. I guess this is why we have L's and forensic psychologists -- man this put a damper on my PMA.

[MLCxH]

Don't F yourself with more pursuit. My $0.02.

What LB55 says above is something you need to think hard about.

Reading through all your posts it appears you are still having trouble moving past the denial stage. I feel you need to accept the reality of things and start preparing mentally for the worst case. If things work out then great but if they don't you don't want to be caught unprepared.

You are desperate to save the marriage now and unfortunately this desperation will likely be your worst enemy in more ways than one. As many others have said let go of the rope. Accept that you have no control over the situation, take a deep breath and stop trying to fix things at least for a day and see how it feels. Give yourself a break from working hard to try and save the relationship. It may end up being the best thing you do for the relationship.

[unchien]

Journal -

W got angry about my distance a week ago so I’ve dialed back the aloofness. It’s an experiment in progress.

Yesterday I turned up the PMA a little bit. Told a few more jokes and tried to lighten the mood. Kept it going today. Came home from work and we all had an amazing time at dinner. Lots of laughter and the mood seemed lighter. I felt relaxed for awhile, like I was not in the fishbowl. Not back to normal but just lighter. W rubbed my arm as I passed by her which is a complete rarity. I had done that a couple times the past two days (very unsure of myself as W responds so neutrally you would think she didn’t notice). The reciprocation was a curious moment... what is she telling me?

I also sent her a text last night that I could tell the kids had a great trip with her, and she was a great mom. No response. This morning she sent me a text that she appreciated some housework I did, something extra I normally don’t do, something almost unnoticeable. But she noticed. Exchanging some gratitude doesn’t mean much but still.. another rarity from her.

These are ripples in a giant lake. Maybe I caught her on a good couple days. But my wife has complained about my distance and aloofness once, last week. Just because she has been ultra distant and aloof herself does not mean I need to mirror her. It would be dense of me to ignore this feedback. It could be the angry ravings of a resentful MLC/WAS. Or it could be her communicating something.

So I’m going to keep trying this little 180 for now. Stay close, be warm, expect nothing. Do nothing over the top. Not going to initiate affection or drop a bunch of ILYs. See if things consistently improve a little bit. If not, scale it back. Most importantly, make sure to keep my emotions in check. This all most likely means nothing. Stay true to the DB path. Do NOT hand over control of my emotions. Be Clint Eastwood inside. Tune in to what is going on, but don’t react. AVOID DESPERATION.

I post a lot of needy desperate ramblings here. I ruminate and obsess. I know I come across as someone likely to do something incredibly dumb like write another apology letter right now. I’ve done a decent job with DB the past month. Especially in how much better I feel. Still holding that rope I admit.

If distance is an issue in my MR, I think it’s worth trying to address it with some 180s. A newbie like me is in danger of overreacting emotionally. A lot is at stake. But I’m willing to experiment a little bit. If the sitch turns I can pull back. This seems consistent with MWD’s teachings.

[LB55]

Journal -

W got angry about my distance a week ago so I've dialed back the aloofness. It's an experiment in progress.

An experiment in letting her reactions control your behaviors? This is what wasn't working before. It won't work now.

If the dog pees on the carpet and you give the dog a treat, the dog will continue to pee on the carpet. The dog is able to recognize that misbehaving equals a treat. You are giving W a treat and she is peeing on your carpet. Keep handing out treats and cleaning up pee, or stop handing them out until the dog pees outside. Your choice and your life.

It is hard and I still struggle with this too, but work on doing what you want, not what you think she wants you to do. This doesn't mean be mean, vindictive, or rude. Be nice, be friendly, be considerate. Just like you'd treat anyone else in your life.

[unchien]

Journal -

Went to IC yesterday. He dropped a bomb on me of his own - he thinks my W is scared to talk to me.

I pushed back hard. Why would somebody with 3 small kids choose D over talking?

Well, I guess I can see it... I scared the hell out of her when I pulled over on the side of the road in March. This I agree with. Then I followed up with a series of long letters - apologizing for everything I had done, admitting to some abusive behavior, professing my life-long love for her, how I want a future together. Afterwards I asked to talk in person, as I intended to apologize F2F. This is when she said, "Maybe in front of your IC". Looking back at all this, I can see how she may have thought I was obsessive. She noticed my weight loss, said she was worried about me, asked me to see a doctor. The letters, intended to show her I cared and wanted her back, instead probably pushed her away because they were scary in their intensity.

Then I found DB...

I can understand now why she might be scared, but it still bothers me that she didn't open up a bit more beforehand. In March I think she started thinking about leaving, we had 2 months (since January) of not really talking about things. I thought she needed space, every time I approached her she seemed sad or hurt or angry, but maybe I didn't try hard enough. I know for a fact I didn't validate. I felt righteous, "I'm ready to talk and she isn't". We went on vacation and barely talked.

Then I had an aha moment in March, pulled over on the side of the road, and here we are. I've spent the month of May really just not acting on my intense emotions, showing W I am calm, steady, etc. June is arriving, and July I expect the BD.

So here I am again... I know I frustrate a lot of people on this forum with my posts. I don't mind the push back, this is a sounding board and I want to hear the opinions. I am working on myself. I know in the worst-case I can survive D. A month ago that scenario was so catastrophic I couldn't even think about it.

But I just don't agree that letting my W go right now is the "answer."

Jan-Mar: I assume she wants space. I probably went too far. I was basically DB'ing and not concerning myself with her feelings.
Mar-Apr: I freaked out, over-pursued, and scared the hell out of her.
May: I DB, she is upset about my distance.

Look... it's a pattern. I'm either distant, or she thinks I'm liable to flip out. I was basically DB'ing from Jan-Mar and it dug me a deeper hole in my M. I felt great about myself during this time, was exercising a lot, giving her a wide berth.

I'm not really sure what I'm going to do at this point.

- My W is not in an EA/PA. It's just not possible. She's always with the kids, or with friends, and she always send pictures when out with friends.

- If my W thought our M was abusive, she would not be upset about my distance.

I can only conclude that she is seriously unhappy and sees a life without me as a happier path. Why would that be? Perhaps because I have been either emotionally distant or writing crazy obsessive letters....