Start living YOUR life. Stop thinking of this as figuring out a tactic that will work. Tactics have a short shelf life. You having a totally different mindset and approach to life will yield in good results whether or not she wants to stick around.
Maika - thank you, especially for making me aware that I need this fundamental change to how I approach life. This is what I need, I know it. Before finding this forum, I was a mess - all the self-help books, IC, and introspection was not helping me come to this realization.
Originally Posted by IronWill
Doing something as simple as this is what helped me get the BD. IMO It's because she sees it as you trying to get her to want what YOU want her to want, and not what she wants.
I cant tell you what to do, U. But I can tell you that doing this about 3 months ago (preDB) was an absolute disaster for me.
I made it clear in the BD that she could talk to me no matter what it was. I said it only once. She did hear it.
It's the only thing that has "worked" (I know DB is not about that). It is very little conversation, very sporadic. It lets me see just how far the M has eroded in her mind and lets me evaluate it from a different viewpoint.
IronWill - I've stopped the pursuing/chasing behavior for a good 3 weeks now. Mother's Day was tough but I think I made sensible choices for the gifts there (way scaled down from prior years, almost 100% focused on the kids).
I made it clear in my letters that I am here to talk. So yes my instinct to give her a card to say "I'm here for you" is just continuing the neediness and pursuing. I'm really glad I didn't do it -- it took a lot of restraint at the time.
Also you are right that DB'ing now for about 3 weeks I am beginning to have some perspective and distance from the M, more detached. It feels surreal and strange, but also kind of liberating.
Originally Posted by LH19
You are not listening to her. She doesn't want you to buy her gifts because it makes her feel guilty that she doesn't have feelings for you right now.
LH19 - I agree 100% on all points.
Originally Posted by LH19
Look man, I know this is extremely difficult for you right now and you are trying to do the right thing but unfortunately you are very needy and are making things way worse. If you don't start taking the advice given here your situation may reach a point of no return.
If you love her and I truly believe you do. Give her time and space to sort out her feelings. She has to choose to want to be with you. You cannot reconnect with her right now.
I think this qualifies as a 2x4?! Keep them coming, please! I love brutal honesty.
You are right about my neediness. Fortunately the last 2-3 weeks, since finding this forum, I have (mostly) stopped acting upon my misguided instincts. A lot of the things I ask about (Should I say this? Should I do that?) I quickly realize thanks to the incredible people on this forum that I need to STOP. I'm posting a ton here, partly for advice, partly as a therapeutic way to let it out so that I don't go home and let emotions take hold and then do something incredibly stupid like initiate an R talk.
I feel like I've made a lot of positive changes: - No R talk - No MC talk unless she initiates. I respond "OK" - No unnecessary texts. No ILY, No "How are you?' No "What are you up to?". Just kids and logistics. - GAL - at night, taking walks, restarting an old hobby. - PMA - maximize the quality of my time I spend with my kids - Tons of validation. Eye contact, restating her feelings, no subject changes, no problem-solving. - No future talk. I literally have no idea what we are doing this summer. Normally we plan out trips, etc. - No asking whether certain chores should be done. Just doing them, as I see them needing done. - No displays of emotions - sadness, anger, frustration. Even-steven. Let them out when driving to/from work, or on walks. - No affection seeking. We are down to a daily hug when I leave for work - if she initiates, I reciprocate, otherwise, I leave. - No hanging around hoping to spend time together. Some nights we end up watching a TV show together. - No questions about what she did today, who she is texting, has she heard from so-and-so, etc. - Boundaries - the other day, she was worked up about the kids acting up while she was watching them, but I also had to start dinner. So I just said, "I can help watch the kids, or I can start dinner, but I cannot do both." Rather than letting myself get stressed out trying to please her.
No gym due to time constraints with the kids. In the past, I have done a bodyweight fitness program at home with a pull-up bar and some gym rings. I need to restart that program, it also eats up the uncomfortable nighttime hours after my kids are asleep. At the moment, going for walks at night is my form of exercise.
Time to vent... rough night... this is going to be a scattered mess of a post...
So W has been texting a couple friends about her situation. One said, “He is just losing it!” Another said “I’m so sorry about your sitch.” This was during a night in which I was in the guest area doing a hobby of mine. I don’t want to share too many details, including why these texts were apparent to me. It was a huge accident on W’s part, I was not snooping. This was about 10 days ago. Maybe DB’ing over the last 10 days is helping, I really have no idea. At the same time tonight W was fairly friendly to me, cordial, made me a snack. Maybe just keeping the peace, who knows.
It’s taking everything I have not to call out my W at this point. I’m so worried she is trying to document my every little move for custody or financial reasons. She took a picture of a post-it I wrote 3 weeks ago that literally said “BOK” — (yes, it meant “Be Okay”) and uploaded it to the cloud. One of my friends (hit with a BD divorce with 3 young kids also several years ago) advised me to sit tight, don’t respond, just keep breathing and act normal. No need to accelerate a process that took, beginning to end, 2 years for him. Also told me he is a much happier person today. And that she can’t take my kids away, what to expect through the process, etc. Just so... frustrating.
I’ve had about 3 hours now to decompress a bit. I was oh-so-close to just telling my W I know what is going on. To tell her that I knew in March, that is why I pulled over the car to try to talk, why I wrote 3 over-the-top apology letters, why I’ve tried so hard to communicate, and now why I’ve backed off. I want her to understand... but I know she never will. She fell out of love, never told me, and then acted like I was crazy for trying to win her back. I made mistakes... she also made mistakes. Tonight this feels like the last straw for me, that maybe now I can move on. We’ll see when I wake up tomorrow.
She still talks about wanting to go to MC in July. No doubt this is a plot to deliver the news easy. I know there can’t be any other plan at this point. DB’ing for 6 weeks isn’t going to change her mind.
I feel like I could accept this more easily if her narrative in her head wasn’t so far off what I think has happened. She cut me off, never tried to communicate or talk. Just gave me anger and the silent treatment for 2 months. Then when I understood what was going on, and tried to “fix” things, I screwed up and made her think I was nuts with pulling over the car and the letters and apologizing. I own my responsibility, but I just don’t get after 15 years together why she would turn like that. I get that I screwed up with the begging and pleading but still... why am I nuts for wanting to save our M?
None of this makes any sense to me, and probably never will. I don’t understand why we can’t try MC for another 3-6 months, and honestly attack our issues as a couple, and see where that leads. Maybe we D. At least we tried. I’m sure she thinks we already did but I just didn’t listen or change. She has gotten so angry when I mentioned staying at home when kids are sick - it’s almost visceral, like “Oh you’re doing that now but you couldn’t do it before” I act calmly when this happens, and say “Yes, you’re right, I didn’t do that before, and I’m sorry. I did not make family my priority. I intend to do this going forward.” But the anger... it is so telling of where I stand.
Financially this will be a complete mess - we will have to sell the house, and living in an expensive area of the country means the standard of living for everyone involved will drop significantly. My W will have to work more than we had planned. Kids? Who knows how they will handle this, I know it can go both ways. There will be battles about vacations, and who gets which holidays & birthdays, and what are the best parenting decisions for our kids?
Anyways, I managed not to react tonight, not to do anything really. I’ll count it as a Win. Worked on a home improvement task, had a short convo with W about my upcoming work travel. I validated, probably not as good as usual. She asked “Are you okay?” Which is a signal that I am quieter than usual, but I really didn’t let on. Probably could have had more of a PMA.
Thanks for reading this disorganized jumble - it’s a marathon not a sprint, I know I need to let my emotions re-balance. Might be a good thing I am on work travel next week, time to read some books on the plane and get my head straight, and get some distance from this mess. Going to miss the kiddos though...
As men we think logically. If we just went to MC for 3-6 months we can fix the marriage. We are both going to suffer financially if we get divorced. Who gets the kids on the holidays?
As women they think emotionally. I am not happy. It is Mr. U that is making mr unhappy. I will never be happy again with him again. That's how she feels now. That can and most likely will change down the road.
Did you ever hear the saying "if you love someone then set them free and if they come back it was meant to be"?
That is DB in a nutshell. The only thing missing is the part where you work on yourself and become a man only a fool would leave.
Lastly, it is extremely rare when a father is not awarded 50% custody when he seeks it.
As men we think logically. If we just went to MC for 3-6 months we can fix the marriage. We are both going to suffer financially if we get divorced. Who gets the kids on the holidays?
As women they think emotionally. I am not happy. It is Mr. U that is making mr unhappy. I will never be happy again with him again. That's how she feels now. That can and most likely will change down the road.
Gotta say, this sums up my situation the past few months really well.
U, my W did the same thing. Kept everything bottled up, in her own words "grew cold and hard," decided everything was my fault and she was done without ever once speaking to me openly about any of it. Silent treatment for 2 months, I wanted to know what was going on, and by then she wasn't reachable.
I'll give you the advice I have struggled to follow myself. Listen to the wise elders. DB: GAL as much as possible, 180s, detach. You can't control what she's going to do as far as D. Try not to obsess about it.
M 44, W 32 T 10, M 8 D 2 Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W) Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF Still live together but a lot of tension
As men we think logically. If we just went to MC for 3-6 months we can fix the marriage. We are both going to suffer financially if we get divorced. Who gets the kids on the holidays?
As women they think emotionally. I am not happy. It is Mr. U that is making mr unhappy. I will never be happy again with him again. That's how she feels now. That can and most likely will change down the road.
Did you ever hear the saying "if you love someone then set them free and if they come back it was meant to be"?
That is DB in a nutshell. The only thing missing is the part where you work on yourself and become a man only a fool would leave.
Lastly, it is extremely rare when a father is not awarded 50% custody when he seeks it.
LH19,
One question. You say: “That’s how she feels now. That can and most likely will change down the road.”
Can you please elaborate?
I think you are saying: Post-D, she will probably have conflicting feelings. I think you are NOT saying: Her feelings may change and you still have a chance to save your M.
I hang on every thread of hope (as you can see) - and my gut right now says DB as hard as I can and set my W free. Completely free.
I’m a very straight shooter and unfortunately based on how these sitches are so scripted and by the book she is most likely going to D you. The problem most newbies have is they think that means game over. It doesn’t, you can absolutely recon after D and there is a high probability that if you do the work and fix your neediness you will get a chance to recon.
Just don’t be surprised that by the time this happens you are no longer interested.
I’m a very straight shooter and unfortunately based on how these sitches are so scripted and by the book she is most likely going to D you. The problem most newbies have is they think that means game over. It doesn’t, you can absolutely recon after D and there is a high probability that if you do the work and fix your neediness you will get a chance to recon.
Just don’t be surprised that by the time this happens you are no longer interested.
LH19, I hear you loud and clear.
Re: Recon - It helps me to assume it is Game Over and give up on recon. I fluctuate hour by hour, but those times where I consider letting go of the rope completely coincide with peak PMA. This morning I feel great - had a weird dream that my W rolled over and cuddled me in bed, and I felt these warm, positive vibes. Then I woke up and I was angry with myself like... you can't just give in like that! You can only save yourself! And I felt good, really good.
Long-term... that person I want to become (resolving NGS, living in the present, owning my issues) would not accept recon without major changes by my W. We would need to rebuild trust and establish healthy communication, and develop skills to work through conflict as a couple. Is that going to happen? Probably not... I'm sure this is a familiar script here...
U. I feel like I am reading my own words as you write them. I am dying inside, hoping to see results immediately after I DB. I want SO bad to have this self-confidence that would absolutely slay her and whether or not she comes to her senses, I could take it or leave it. That's how I WANT to feel about myself.
But I miss her like crazy. It's been 18 months since we've even touched each other (other than a hug) and I'm starting to become resentful about all she's taking me for granted.
But alas, I have glimmers of understanding this. I have but 1 life to live and I only have myself. I need to confidently stand for myself and my kids - I will be the best I can be, not affected by the affirmation or lackthereof by any woman, man or situation.
I want to reconcile. I want to be married. But the very best thing that could happen to me is to stand on my own 2 feet no matter what the future holds.
And then I miss her. I roll over and wish she was there like she used to be . It [censored] man, I know.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
