[JujuB]

Ok. Ok. You are right. I have went through some really hard a$$ experiences that have certainly given me greater insight, empathy, and understanding for people. I can relate to others better. I see through some people much better as well.

I said Earlier I was ok being alone. But I don’t think that’s true. I think I was so unhappy with ex bf, I would rather be alone then continue on with him. My brother came to visit with his wife and they have a really really great relationship despite hardships. I would like a healthy relationship. I see that it’s possible. They both had a lot of things in common and maybe that helped them stay bonded and attracted for longer. Both liked dancing and hiking. And my brother is more of a quirky hipster that she had fun with.

Someone told me that the only man in my life should be my son right now. I don’t necessarily think that’s healthy either. They did tell me I need to date myself and that I need to know myself better so I know what I want.

I think I’m taking a bit of a break. I need to get back into exercise, work on setting up a little part time niche business I have had in the back of my head for a while. I do want to date again though eventually.

I think I will try to look for someone that has more in common with me next time around. Maybe someone that is a bit more active and maybe more young at heart would work better. Ex husband and ex bf were both home bodies
And for them going on a small walk with me was a compromise. Someone that already likes to explore and see new things might be a better fit. Someone that enjoys spending time with me and my son would be ideal. Someone that can just connect and joy feel the need to establish some weird authoritarian role from the 1950s.

My love languages are verbal affirmations and time spent... so maybe I’m going for the wrong guys

[Gekko]

Hey juju - I am on the Newcomer board but I was surfing over here to get a preview of things because I will probably be over here full-time pretty soon....anyway I read your thread and thought I might pass along a few thoughts because your XBF has some similar qualities to my STBXW and your exhaustion due to the negativity and criticism is exactly what I have been going through for 6 YEARS. On my journey I have found the following to be true:

People that describe themselves as "brutally honest" are often more about being brutal than honest. They "tell it like it is." The don't "sugarcoat" things. Basically they give themselves carte blanche to say just about anything without repercussions, because hey, they're just being honest, right? And if you can't handle it, you're "too sensitive" or "butthurt" as my W would say. It's BS. They have a problem - it's them not you. For them there is no line between being candid and being a rude a$$hole. And they are absolved of all responsibility for their speech, it's just "who they are". It's BS - did I say that already?

The fact that your XBF had a lot of great qualities is not enough to overcome the toxic nature of criticism in a R. There is a very well known researcher who in 30+ years of studies has clearly found that when someone harshly criticizes their significant other and it becomes a habit, its begins a toxic chain reaction that will almost certainly kill the R. No one likes to be criticized - "gee, thank you so much for educating me on my flaws, please tell me more!". Right. Criticism leads to defensiveness, naturally, and the building of resentment and contempt, and then it's game over for the R.

My STBXW has a lot of great qualities, probably 90+% good stuff, but the nasty tone of her criticism, the attacks, the snide and sarcastic BS, is highly concentrated toxic stuff was enough to drive me away and shut me down. She can wreck an entire evening with a few seconds of toxic BS. And often these people can just move on within minutes and act as if nothing happened or nothing is wrong. It's weird.

So I feel you on your BF sitch. I stuck it out for YEARS because I had very young children. I stood up for myself every single time the criticism was fired off at me, but it is exhausting. I would actually say to my W "are you trying to make me feel bad about myself?" and "it's not necessarily what you're saying, it's how you are saying it" and "do you think it's right for a spouse speak like that? where did you get that idea?". And of course from W I got the "i'm just blunt, I don't sugarcoat things" BS routine in response.

Sorry for the semi-rant but I just wanted you to know I have lived that life and I can relate, it's effing draining beyond belief, it's very likely not your fault, you're probably not "hypersensitive", you just got linked up with a guy who can't control himself and drawn a line between honesty and a$$holery. Best of luck to you in your journey, beautiful clear days lay ahead.

[JujuB]

Thanks for posting Gekko. Your right. I did start to feel like I was on defensive and then I just stopped bringing him around with me cause I did not want to worry about being put in that position. And his criticisms were over really small, stupid things that he wrote off as innocent jabs at humor...

He was meeting my friend for the first time and he had to make fun of me because I did not include enough cups in the picnic basket I had worked hard to prepare. It went beyond a “hey is that enough cups” it was more like a “seriously. What? are we all gonna share a cup that you pass around ?! Haha. Get more cups. What are you thinking. Why would you just pack these?” But he was dead wrong as the drinks were all individual cans and bottles and I was only bringing the cups just in case. It was just annoying that he wanted to constantly banter about every thing. Especially calling me out in front of friends he never met. I could have argued and got real nasty, but I didn’t want to because it was all my friends and I didn’t want him to feel bad or ganged up on. But I was really annoyed.

But here’s something I started to notice. He only did these things when we were out places. When we were in his house everything was fin. And they were in places that there was an unknown. I actually think it was a form of anxiety. I have a sense of humor. I really do not get super offended at things....

The jabs were not funny. There was anger and Impatience behind each comment. That’s what upset me. He was losing his temper with me over things that were really minuscule and done in a way to take the discomfort off of him and on to me. That’s what I think anyway. But it got to the point where I was thinking, “I’m not gonna invite him cause parking can be tough at that place and if I miss a parking spot and have to drive around he’s gonna start harassing me”
Seriously. Who can live like that???

My ex husband told me I was critical and negative and verbally abusive. I cringe at the thought that I could have been like ex boyfriend. If that’s the case, this is my Karma. But with my ex husband the things I complained about was more about his sleeping till 3 and money and him being late. I didn’t make jabs like that over small things. But I don’t know if ex was gaslighting me..perhaps doing things he knew I would complain about and then using it as an excuse to break up with me or if so was really as bad as ex bf to him.

[DonH]

My ex husband told me I was critical and negative and verbally abusive. I cringe at the thought that I could have been like ex boyfriend. If that’s the case, this is my Karma. But with my ex husband the things I complained about was more about his sleeping till 3 and money and him being late. I didn’t make jabs like that over small things. But I don’t know if ex was gaslighting me..perhaps doing things he knew I would complain about and then using it as an excuse to break up with me or if so was really as bad as ex bf to him.

Hmmmmm so being late was worthy of criticism but not packing enough cups or driving habits are not? I sort of see them as at the same level. Not trying to be critical and I do not think you are getting carma back but have to careful of thinking it's okay to be critical when it's things that matter to you. Perhaps the cups mattered as much to him as being late mattered to you? Do you see what I mean?

Now, him complaining so he had a reason to break up with you. Where did that come from? Do you think he wanted to break up with you? You must, otherwise why did you say that? What makes you think he wanted to break up with you?

What I'm really curious about is, have you heard from him at all? I don't know why but I would think that you would by now. Have you? If not, that might make me consider he might be okay that this has ended and perhaps he was maybe picky so you'd break up with him. Perhaps thats more of what you meant?

[JujuB]

Hey don -I’m home sick today and I’m now taking a trip down memory lane.

My ex’s lateness was beyond the norm. It was not someone that was just 15 min late. Here are some examples.

I remember how early in our dating history on we almost missed a flight to the Caribbean. He has trouble waking up in the mornings (alarms would blare for hours) and we didn’t live together and I kept calling him and calling him cause he was so late. His friend had stayed the night supposedly to help him wake up for this early flight. But his friend slept through the alarms too. Almost missing the flight put me on edge the whole vacation.

Another example is my wedding shower. My mom wanted to throw a surprise wedding shower for me at this very expensive venue. My ex got me there over an hour late. I missed the cocktail hour and my mom was so upset because she put so much work and money into it. . I remember prior to the shower, he had us stop at a bank so I could take money out to lend him for his luxury car (which I disagreed with cause we were spending money on a wedding he wanted - I did not) God this was such a red flag - but I was used to this at that time and it just didn’t register.

My ex was 2 hours late to my sons birthday party. We were having a barbecue at a local park. My parents had helped me pack all the stuff, make everything, set up and bring it over and my mom helped watch my son. My ex slept in late. All I asked him to do was pick up the cake. He left to get the cake and I have no idea why it took so long. Me and my dad were waiting with all the stuff at the park and I was calling up guests and my mom to tell them to come later. Ex had all the barbecue gear. Ex got mad at me for getting mad at him. He acted like I was a nag and had no right to be mad at him for this.

My ex was invited to a fishing trip by my brother. (I didn’t go) my brother said they were trying to stall to get the charter boat to not leave without ex. He was so embarassed and annoyed.

He would get to work after 12 usually. His bosses would get upset but over looked it cause he took on their responsibilities. He’s smart, so maybe he knew how to do things for them that they needed. But he missed lots of meetings and it was a problem.


I did not mean my ex boyfriend complaining cause he wanted to break up. I meant my ex husband doing things like not coming home so that I would complain and he could say I was nagging and abusive and critical. BD happened cause he told me I used his dads death to instill guilt and I felt so bad about that for so long. It was Father’s Day. My son thought he was going out with his dad. My ex slept all morning and then went to visit his dads grave with his mother. I took son to the park and my son was 4 and crying cause he thought I left without his dad. My ex did not get to the park till 5 30 pm at which point we were leaving. I told my ex “your dad was a generous man. He would have rather you spent the day with your son” My ex told me that was the cruelest thing any one ever said to him. That I was using his dads death to inflict guilt. And I was verbally abusive and critical and he was moving out....

Btw he stayed with us in my parents house for a few weeks because he did not want to move back in with his mom cause she was too stressed cause his grandmother had died and he didn’t want to be around her. When my mom heard that... she packed all his stuff for him in a box. Which pissed him off cause he didn’t like people touching his stuff. (I told him she thought she was helping)

[JujuB]

Now regarding ex boyfriend - I don’t think he was critical of me because he wanted to break up. He was like that with his daughter too and The two of them would engage in a banter and yelling matches. It was their norm (try to imagine an old school Italian family in a movie that takes place in the 1950s or perhaps George costanzas parents from Seinfeld) , but something I just couldn’t cope with. I think his jabs and criticism stem more from anxiety and an anger issue more then anything.

One of the things that made me feel safe with ex bf is that he’s not the type to break things off. Like I know if I had gotten sick or old or needed surgery or gained weight he would be ok with that. As long as someone met a certain criteria, he would make it work. Almost like an arranged marriage. There’s safety to that, but it certainly did not make me feel good. I probably could have been anyone that wasn’t a complete shmuck and he would be ok with that. Now perhaps, he stopped putting in effort because he subconsciously wanted to end things. That I could understand.

But he’s very sensitive to someone ending things with him. He felt abandoned by many of his exes and he said once someone leaves him that’s it. He’s done. So I know he would never fight for this relationship, once I told him I wanted to be myself. He did tell me that he didn’t have to voice his opinion about my son and that he could learn how to adapt to me. But it did not feel right. It felt like we were walking on egg shells. Me to not have someone criticize, him to not have someone end a relationship.

He won’t call to try to reestablish a relationship. If I wanted to go back to him, he wouldn’t have that either. He said one of his exes tried and he just felt too hurt and abandoned to give it a go. . To be honest, If someone broke things off with me at this point, I would be the same way. My pride would be wounded and after what I went through with ex, I would just move on. So I get it.

And I just do not think we will work out. He is friends with his exes. So maybe that’s a possibility. But we did not date as long either. I don’t think he’s a bad person. I would be happy for him if he met someone nice. I think he is going to have a hard time though with women if he continues to act the way he’s acted with me. Or perhaps he will do Better with a gruffer more masculine female who likes that type of arguing - or maybe a woman that will tell him exactly what she wants.

Because of my history with my ex, I’m not comfortable telling a guy what I want. He left me because I expressed anger about rude things he was doing. And that’s something I have to feel more confident about with future guys.

[DonH]

That made much more sense now JuJu - much more. Of course, there are always two sides to every sitch - and his might be far different. For example you "almost" missed a flight - but you didn't. You made it, yeah there was stress. People just all look at things like this differently. I'm rarely if ever late and rarely if ever early. If you say be there at 7 PM I'll be there at 7 PM. Now some people would start to panic at 6:45. When we went on the cruise the wife of the keyboard player - also leader of the band - insisted we get there TWO HOURS early. The flipping airport was not even open as we sat their at 3:45 AM waiting for people to show up behind the counter to check us in for our 6:00 AM flight. To her - almost missing the flight would have been showing up at 5 AM which is totally what I would have done.

But, that's where my benefit of the doubt starts to end. People sleeping through alarms like that is just not normal. I'm putting on my medical hat now - it's just not normal. I know you have suspected or perhaps even confirmed alcohol or possible drug use and THIS just SCREAMS of it. Something is up with that for sure. Yet, he seemed to get away with it - in part because people let him get away with it. If this was me and he had a history of being late, the fishing boat would have left and he would have been waving from the shore. That's the only way people change their behavior - is when consequences are put on them. And his way of not having that happen is to treat the person applying those consequences through hell so they were afraid to do it again. See, I'm not that guy. Get mad at me, I don't care. I have you a 15 minute grace period - you were not there - we left.

The thing is JuJu, the more you talk about this and reveal the details, the more I'm certain you did the right thing with your ex. I'm really wondering if it should not have been done much sooner? Or perhaps you never should have started with him? Not sure. I always try to put myself in the other person's shoes. If this were me and if I really was in love with you and missed you, I'd at least give contacting you a try. The fact he is not - no matter the reason/excuse further convinces me that you made the right decision. Again, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. He's just not your match. More-over, I continue to maintain you did this very well. If anything, you hung on longer than could be expected. He didn't rush to judgement. You have him opportunity. Perhaps when you started not inviting him places was the time to start thinking, hmmmmmm, this is not working. And you were - you were even telling us about it.

In all, I think you handled all of this really well. You learned some things about what you do and do not want. You (hopefully) had some fun. No real damage was done - that I'm aware of anyhow. This really is a no harm, no foul. You dated, and that's it. Next. Use anything you can to make changes for the next time. I think you should be very proud of yourself. Stop second guessing. And I'm a tough grader so hopefully it means something when I say, I think you did well - for whatever it's worth - that's my input!

[JujuB]

Thanks don. I think in hindsite, I should not have gone for him. We were too different. It was apparent after that first vacation. I just went into it thinking that because we were both committted and loyal types that we could make it work. I didn’t think compatibility meant as much as shared morals. But I was wrong.

Ex bf went through similar relationship h@ll that I did. That was part of the apppeal. I felt like he would get me. But i am not sure if 2 people that were traumatized can love someone enough again to go through the loss of pride of chasing someone that ended something. He already did that in the past as did I. I will never do that again and he won’t either. He didn’t do it with his other exes. I don’t think love like that is possible. We didn’t have just normal, mutual break ups. There was deception and gaslighting and double lives and the big one being abuse. It kills a part of your ability to give yourself fully to someone.

I’m sad and I do want a partner but I have to get my confidence back. Get out of the depression I guess. Today I was home sick and that certainly didn’t help. Thanks again! I appreciate your input and honesty.

[Gekko]

And his criticisms were over really small, stupid things that he wrote off as innocent jabs at humor...He was meeting my friend for the first time and he had to make fun of me because I did not include enough cups in the picnic basket I had worked hard to prepare. It went beyond a “hey is that enough cups” it was more like a “seriously. What? are we all gonna share a cup that you pass around ?! Haha. Get more cups. What are you thinking. Why would you just pack these?

So he would poke fun at you for a perceived mistake or shortcoming. This kind of stuff is just veiled criticism and disrespect. Playful banter is great, even some occasional gentle pokes, but this guy sounds like he did not know where the line was and that is a problem, whether in front of a group or just the two of you.

My response probably would have been "OMG! We don't have enough cups? What are we going to do? We can't just drink straight of the cans and bottles, that's illegal! I guess we're just going to have to cancel the picnic. What a disaster - not enough CUPS!" All with a smile.

The jabs were not funny. There was anger and Impatience behind each comment. That’s what upset me. He was losing his temper with me over things that were really minuscule and done in a way to take the discomfort off of him and on to me. That’s what I think anyway. But it got to the point where I was thinking, “I’m not gonna invite him cause parking can be tough at that place and if I miss a parking spot and have to drive around he’s gonna start harassing me”

LOL I feel you on the driving thing. My W is the worst at that, it always lead to her saying "do you need me to drive?" I started responding with "no, but I need you to find the passenger seat mute button" or "where is that passenger seat eject button again?" and that would shut her up until the next thing came up.

Even if you have a snappy comeback every time, it just gets exhausting after awhile because some people cannot control their compulsion to jab and criticize, so it never ends. It just chips away at you. And I love to banter, but it's just so obvious to me where the line is with everyone - love interest has a way different line then a lot of my guy friends.

Here's one for you:

BF: I think that was a parking space right there.

juju: Oops I didn't see that, shoot.

BF: No problem babe, another one will open up.

Doesn't that sound nice.

[JujuB]

Gekko - The last dialogue sounds peaceful. For me, I have been through years of fighting with my ex, then divorce with my ex, battle with my attorneys, and I didn’t want more banter just for banters sake. At this point in my life it’s not fun and endearing to me.

I’m not good at quick come backs like you or it might have been different. I also need to think the comment over to see if I am being fair or unfair before I respond. like I’m careful to not just snap back. And I think that’s something that i picked up from divorce busting - but maybe too much in the oppposite extreme of what’s healthy.

I have more of a quieter or maybe a daydreamer personality where I’m not really even paying attention to someone that missed a parking spot. It doesn’t register to me as something to even bring up. So when he would comment on things like that, I was just surprised it even bothered him. I was surprised it invoked anger and frustration when to me it’s not really a big deal. I don’t want to be someone that annoys my partner.

My friends were surprised at his comments too and they are more of the loud say it like it is type. So I don’t think it’s me being completely on one scale of the sensitivity spectrum.

Anyway, as the days go on I do feel good about my decision. I’m certainly not ready to get back out there and date but I still want to find someone I can connect with. This time, I will do things different. Not get exclusive with someone so quick. Date a bit. Not try to conform to someone that might not be a good fit.