Something there is that doesn't love a wall...

[job]

I agree w/OneArt's posting. He's trying to reconnect, but is still having issues with confusion. Until he reconciles his issues, he'll continue to circle around for a bit longer and hopefully, he will get some help w/his depression.

[DnJ]

Hello OneArt

H’s confusion is certainly evident. It does look like he is working on or though something. Still, showing some reconnection efforts through it. Where it is going, time will tell, as you well know.

I think you handled the missing wallet well. No need for you to be different just because H shows up. I think it was really good you speaking to H when he was trying to ignore you.

It sounds like son has got himself back on track. That is very good news. Hope he does well on the team.

DnJ

[OneArt]

I've had a few moments in the last several days where I felt sheer and utter rage for him and almost sent him something awful. Instead, in view of not being able to have regular visits with S now during the week, I sent him S's schedule for the next six months indicating every possible day that S could see him and asked him to kindly let me know which days he would like me to set aside for him (in particular S will be gone most of the summer and if he doesn't schedule time, he will not see S). As expected, no response. Not even a thank you.

S brought up the alcohol comments again. He said I think he wanted me to tell you that he is a drinker now so you know how different he is. I said yes S, that was a message for me. I think he wants an angry response from me. S said you aren't going to send one are you. I said no. You handled it brilliantly and I am not his trained monkey. I said instead I sent him a nice email saying I hoped he was well (since S said he was sick) and gave him your schedule through the start of school. S said ok.

I realize that my rage is that 4 letter word EXPECTATIONS. Don't worry, I've already slapped myself for it. S had told him that his race was today and OD said he would think about attending (S has never specifically asked him to attend anything before). OD never contacted him. The race is actually tomorrow and was included in the email I sent him. I doubt it will make a difference. S said he never comes to anything for me. I think he doesn't like me. I don't think he's ever liked me. I bet he wishes I'd never been born. All I could say to S was this is his issue. His problem. I love you and am always here for you.

Then I let S take me for a ride in his truck and my convertible. Now he's off riding his bike. A little more wind therapy will do him good. The hardest thing for me in all of this is my S and how much he wants a father and knowing how miserably I failed him in that regard. I hope that I can forgive myself one day.

[job]

OneArt,

I am so sorry that your h has let his son done and didn't respond to your message.

I do think that his drinking comments were a message for you through your son. He was looking for a reaction from you about it and didn't get the reaction he was expecting. Sometimes, it takes days for them to respond back and who knows, you might have caught him off guard when you didn't respond the way he thought you would. He still looks to you as an authority figure.

As for him not liking your son, I don't think that's the issue. I think he resents his son and the relationship that your son has w/you. Many of them will become jealous and resentful of their children because they are still in the "teen" mode and think about how their parents treated them back in the day. Yes, it is your h's issue and he needs to work things out.

As for your son, continue to support him as you have been doing. Some day, he will look back and acknowledge the fact that you were there for him through some of the roughest patches in his life. I do think that deep down, his father does love him, but he doesn't know how to relate to him at the moment.

You have nothing to forgive. You didn't know that your h would flip the switch become the person he is today.

[OneArt]

Thanks Job. I went back and read through TMAK yet again and some other threads on reconnection. He hasn't done anything that wise people such as yourself didn't predict long ago. In the TMAK it talks about how they will tell you things they have done to see if you can accept them. I think he is doing that, although in his usual disordered fashion indirectly through my child. In the threads I read it also discussed that they will pull away throughout reconnection and reemerge. I imagine he will do that. I hope for S that he does.

S had to call him yesterday because of something we needed to pick up that he and S had dropped off the other day (and for some reason they put OD's name on it and not mine). He answered the phone right away and immediately sent S what he needed, so I guess that is something. In the past he would not have answered a call from one of the children. I think he was too afraid. No mention of the race though.

I watched S closely last night and this a.m. as I drove him to his event. He seems OK. I didn't see any wallowing or depression or sense of sadness. Thankfully it is a beautiful day here and his race is outside and he is with his friends.

I know you are right about him seeing me as a maternal figure. I don't know how to put an end to that other than not responding as a maternal figure. I think it has just been a rough few days in general and I am feeling that anxiousness TMAK describes, waiting for him to disappoint S yet again. I have to stop these negative expectations.

Thank you as always for your support.

[OneArt]

I did end up getting a response from him. In the past he would not have responded at all, and likely sent my S a nasty text saying that he would let my son know when he could see him (for over a year he refused to coordinate anything with me schedule-wise). So I guess that continues to be progress and suggest that he has not returned to monster mode.

He thanked me and said he had to check his work schedule (uh huh) and that he would get back to me next week. Whether he will, who knows, but at least he gave a polite response, even if it took him two days and he could have told me the same thing upon receiving it (insofar as he didn't actually give me any dates). He did not show up for the race (but son won both events and had a good time).

[OneArt]

Hey guys, I could use some help here. Major, big time help.

I think it is time to ask OD directly why he displays so much ambivalence about bringing things to a close and asking if there is anything I can do to make it easier for him to do so (he is now not responding to me about wanting to meet to discuss putting the house on the market). Or maybe being more direct than that.

Job, you suggested asking him after our talk in December if he wants to come home. I'm rather regretting I didn't do that. I took a middle of the road thing. I think if I ask him that question he will either admit he does (or at least it will result in an actual conversation about moving in some direction) or he will realize in that moment that he doesn't want to, and may be willing to move forward with wrapping things up. I just think he is stuck, stuck, stuck. I would preface the conversation by saying that I was approaching him with an open and forgiving heart and that I have had time to heal and feel strong. I would again reiterate that I bear him no ill will and that I understand better than he thinks why he has made the choices he has.

I've done it all. I've DBed, not DBed, I've showed my willingness to move forward with divorce, I've left him alone to work this out for himself. Nothing is working. I am sitting here having my life, and that of my kids, controlled by his inactions and I no longer choose to remain in limbo.

I am fine with whatever the outcome is here. I just need it to go somewhere.

[peacetoday]

Do you think he would be willing to go to one counseling session maybe with the idea of Co parenting?

Maybe wait to act on this until you get some suggestions here

In reality when the time is right and you can put the words together- I wonder if there is a way to let him talk
about what he is thinking without suggesting any direction

let him just tell you again what he is thinking while you say nothing and stay neutral

then maybe you will have a clearer path to follow-and you may have to make the hard choice without him
especially if you don't want to stay in limbo

Is there a reason you have get out of limbo now?
or would a little more time benefit the situation
only you can know-

But to get out to try to get rid of the pain- wont help
work through the anxiety of not knowing first -then rethink it


Also I am sorry for your son--I have heard similar complaints as of lately that my son 17 feels abandoned, unloved- ect
I see it as a good sign that he can clearly see/express and feel his pain


I just listen validate and confirm I am also here

I also see my son making good choices and great direction and path for his life so his expressing does not concern me

remember you did not fail him- no- you have shown your kids courage strength an dstability and forgiveness

We took the road we thought best by M them
We had no way to know, this would be the outcome-
and maybe this way was lightened by our H being gone-
It could have been worse perhaps if they stayed-

hang in

[OneArt]

Thanks for the response Peace, just to clarify a few points.

I don't feel any pain. None at all. My life is good. I finally accept that S and OD will have whatever relationship they have and that can't be the basis for my action/inaction.

I really want to sell the house ASAP. Our market is falling. The proceeds of the house are a big part of any payout I'm getting. I really want to buy a place where my D goes to school. I need to sell this place to do so. His limbo is keeping that from happening. S doesn't like this house. He feels sad and lonely here. D needs to get out of the dorms. I need her to be in an apartment with her grand piano and her two cats and so S and I can visit her regularly.

I think the time doesn't help him. I think he will keep spinning. I think he needs hand-holding and a depth charge or whatever you call them. I think I have to lead this conversation however it goes. I think I just want to say something, anything, to get a conversation going. He is afraid of any conversation.

We are getting along pretty well in general now, but he doesn't like to have adult conversations.

[job]

OneArt,

I think you need to lay it all out for him, i.e., the housing market and the fact that you want to purchase a place closer to where your D goes to school. Point out that the market is falling and now is the time to sell. You can always say "h, the housing market is dropping and I would like to sell the house in the next couple of months so that we can relocate closer to D. If you want to buy me out, that is fine, but we have got to make some decisions about this place so that I can get it on the market for the spring selling time."

I think that if you put it to him in a calm, neutral tone, you might get some answers. It's time to experiment and see just what his thoughts are on where he sees himself in another 6 months or so.