WAS or WHAT 11

[Gordie]

Roist

What a great post

A year ago I was certain it was our last Christmas together

I guess the lesson is that nothing is certain

It just feels certain in that moment

I am curious to know what that letter said

What is it you want in a relationship

I bet there is a font of wisdom there

And vision boards as a family

That sounds fun

I have never done one

W has one in her room

No mention of family

[roist]

Best wishes everyone for the new year. Let's make it a good one.

Gordie. Thanks for dropping by. I'll reply another time

[job]

Best wishes to you as well.

[roist]

Gordie, wrote you a long detailed reply which I subsequently lost. Aghhh! Anyway I will reply again here with the time available to me.

I wrote:
> Gave her credit for staying although checked out as most people just leave
> acknowledged that that cannot have been easy for her
> Stated that I don't know how much longer I will continue to live together disconnected
> this isn't how I see myself living nor the example that I want for our sons
> stated wanted to be with someone I could form a team with, laugh with, discus anything. to comfort, to support and be affectionate. I want those in return
> mostly I just wanted to share my life with someone who wants to be with me
> stated that although interested in how she saw us going forward that I wasn't absolutely looking for a reply from here. I just wanted to clarify my thoughts. Restated it wasn't a threat or effort to coerce anything

My W was reluctant to take the letter stating that it isn't how adults communicate. I calmly stated a letter allowed me to calmly say what I had to say and not get side tracked. She asked my purpose and I said I had no hidden motive but wanted to explain my thinking. She thanked me for taking the time to write it for her and that she would read it later. The letter moved around a lot over the following week, so I am sure it was read

As I stated earlier in this thread, I felt that I was at a crossroads and if I decided that I was no longer willing to live like this, I wanted to follow Michelle's advice and give notice that this situation is not suiting me and I may decide to find my own solution. I think I may have said that to her and she focalised a lot on "MY" solution. I didn't allow myself to be pushed to expand that, but said I was willing to change anything and everything to have a better life. No mention of W or M from me.

Also following Michelle's advice I have taken a step further back from W. This isn't a tactic, I just am not enthused by how we interact. So I fill my time with other stuff, without shutting W out completely.

Anyway I feel we are getting along terribly at the moment, yet I have noticed the following:
# W puts legs across mine more and more often when watching TV together
# W has insisted using newly acquired communication techniques (probably learned at parenting workshops she does) to get my views on stuff
# W has been active at finding us stuff to do together as a family and sometimes as a couple (though not coupley stuff)

My reading of the situation is that she is definitely interested in promoting the family unit, isn't against doing stuff together. Maybe I am just hung up on resentment or am just tired of it all, that I am not encouraging the positives as much as I probably should. At the weekend I came across some advice that a M specialist gave me three years ago, a year into my struggle. He said she seemed stuck and as long as she has the family she may remain stuck.

That's all I have time for today. Thanks for reading.

[Gordie]

Roist

Thanks for the reply

I better understand your thinking

I find her responses interesting

I would view them as positive

The other piece of advice you are following

Is do what works

And if you get stuck try something new

Best wishes

[roist]

Just dropped by to wish ye all a happy Saint Patricks day this weekend.

Just realised I never outlined my vision board either. Maybe I will soon, but it is finished and posted in the house. It is a good way to be reminded daily of objectives and wishes I have.

Luckily I have many projects/aims outside of my M because TBH that side is .....well not fun. I sometimes wish she had left, so I would not have the daily reminder of where we are at. I have mentioned before it being like a half marriage. My years of standing allow me to know I could continue for a long time. But more and more I think that "not like this".

Over the last two years I seem to come back here every now and again, to restate my same old struggle with the constraints of living like this and how much longer I will choose to do so. Within our M I am probably as much the WAS if not moreso than my W. Yet I chose to stay. That makes a huge difference, as I am not supporting something inflicted upon me but something chosen to endure. Plus it gives me insight into how the WAS feels/felt, which I confirm does explain why most leave. How they feel is horrible and anything that ends that if not only justifiable, but a must.

Our sons are hitting teenagedom and the ensuing normal battles are adding to an already unhealthy situation. But as usual I step back from the heat of battle, observe my real issues and put in place appropriate actions.

Guess I needed my safe outlet, more than I thought. Thanks for being there.

I'll raise a drink to ye all this weekend.

Best wishes

[Gordie]

Roist

I think for the multi year stander

There are a lot of questions that come up

You helped me with a lot of them

What is a m?

Is there such a thing as a loveless m?

What if your spouse just wants to be friends?

What if your spouse wants out but is just cannot make the effort to leave?

It is at these times

That we have to examine our own beliefs

Who are we at the core

And then be true to ourselves

***

In addition to reading a lot here and about MLC

I read about being married to someone who is depressed

And being married to a trauma survivor

Knowledge is power

And it is a comfort to know you are not alone in your experience

***

Happy STP Day to you too!

[kate11]

Living with the daily reminder of your situation for so long must be tough. It's good that you are still at home for your kids though. Especially as they enter teenagedom. I think that makes a big difference.

[roist]

Gordie,

Thanks for dropping by. I am glad my postings helped you. I have pondered deep on many aspects of myself and our M. That has been useful. The "what ifs" relating to W I have found to be fruitless as is any speculation. I have sought understanding which I believe I have found to a certain degree. That will do for now. Without speculating I am sure of the following regarding W:

# she is depressed/unhappy. I don't have to be a specialist to see this. But I imagine they all are like that. I just get to see it. That helps my empathy but doesn't help my situation personally. She is surely unhappy with me and TBH I am not perfect H material at the moment. But over time being shut out, I guess I am a bit out. It isn't easy to see her really upset as she is from time to time, but now I let it flow without any solving attempts.
# she is a good mother. Over the time of our crisis she has probably used the kids as a crutch. The affection she isn't giving me, she gives to them. She is so natural with her contact to comfort end connect with them. That is great to see, even if it highlights even more the lack of such with me. I have read (secretly) over a dozen books about M/R plus much more internet reading and podcasts. She has read more than me about parenting. Many the MLC has had worse preoccupations!!
# she is very interested in our family. Meals, family activities, TV series, films, outings etc. She is proactive about that and about involving me. I find it curious how she misses the point, that to be a family, being a couple is an important ingredient.
# She is still here. She has NEVER made any apparent steps towards leaving me, nor our bedroom. I am sure she has her reasons for that. I won't speculate, but I will say that despite the length of my M crisis to date, it is possible that the real BD has yet to occur!!
# She does appear to be cultivating more interests and activities around the house. She is initiating small projects and following through. This wasn't the case a few years back. I am being asked to help/participate in such projects too. This aspect of her amongst other things makes me wonder if her depression could be lifting slowly. Then again she could just be making the most of a poor situation........as I am!! Time will tell
# She has stated several times this year that she is there any time I wish to discuss anything with her. She has even demonstrated good communication skills with me. Unfortunately I get the impression that these skills and her openness are mostly to point out the error of my ways so to speak. I don't feel listened to. Some occasions I have not ceased due to timing or not being in the best mindset. So I have blocked some communication. I will look into my part in this. I believe her offers to communicate were genuine. Strangely or not I just remembered, that about six months ago, during a less pleasant exchange, I calmly said that if she was happy with our communication, good for her. For me it isn't adequate. Could be unrelated or could be a slow working reaction. All that being said, we have had no R talk in over 18 months apart from my letter last year.



Kate,

thank you too for your comments. When this all started my kids were 5 and 7. A lot of my standing was about it being best for them. Whereas there is no ideal time for parents to separate I truly believed that any time gained in postponing that would be beneficial for them. I am glad that we managed that. I still take them into consideration but believe being that much older and me being a bit more wiser, it is less critical for me now. That being said, they will remain a priority for me.

[roist]

I have just read this thread. I can't believe it is over a year since I started it. Beginning to think that my situation is in line for a prize as one of the slowest moving here on the site!! There is a good and a bad side to that. I will focus on the good side but admit wondering about if a BD is down the road. I said wondering as opposed to stressing. Que sera sera. Whatever will be will be. It would sadden me that it ends after all this time, but I imagine I will embrace the opportunities and possibilities of such a situation. That's the advantage of having already mourned my M!!

But here I am for now. I believe I see clearly my situa