I think that's wonderful. He's wanting to make a deeper connection. I keep praying this for my H to do the same. As far as I can tell, it's the kids who always initiate contact. Hold tight these moments. It's all good.
I think I'm seeing some pulling away behavior, as expected. I will know more later this week when OD is supposed to come and see son.
I'm across the country watching my D perform in several productions. The day after the first one I sent him a picture of her in costume. He waited until the following morning to open the text and said only thanks. He didn't ask anything about it. I wrote back and said she was amazing by the way. No response.
She performed again a couple of days later. I was trying to decide whether to send him pics and possibly some bootleg audio I took. On the one hand, I didn't care for his response to the prior pic. On the other, I don't really care what he thinks anymore. Since I want to be the kind of person that would send my D's father pictures of her even after divorce, I went ahead and sent a few pictures. Instead of beating around the bush I also commented that she did great and that I had some audio that was too long to send. This time he opened the text right away but did not respond.
I imagine it is hard on him to get pictures of his daughter who he has not seen or talked to in over 2 years now. I've given him many suggestions on things he could do to improve the relationship and I have seen no evidence of effort. I don't even think she is that mad at him anymore. She knows I send him pictures and tell him how she's doing. I just think she wants to feel some grand gesture from him. I know it is up to them and I am trying to leave it to them.
I was also slightly annoyed that he did not bother asking me who was watching our son back at home. I think that would have been my first question. Nope. Nada. Nothing. At least not to me. I'm hoping he at least checked in on son back at home. I didn't ask him to stay with son (even though I suspect he's off) because the last time he did he did a major pull back from son and I didn't want to put son through that again. I just don't think he is anywhere near ready to be a parent or spend time in our home.
I'm very pleased that his regression is not something that I feel any concern about and that I was able to deal with him calmly as I would like to do post-divorce. I didn't even feel the slightest temptation to rip into him. Two years ago, after a similar concert, I sent him a text telling him that I was heartbroken for him that he was choosing to miss these moments of her life. I got a monster text back (which I deserved) and which broke out in a nasty text battle. I'm pleased that this time I was able just to send the pictures of his beautiful daughter.
I think I've come to the realization that I was supposed to meet and marry him so that I could give birth to the true loves of my life and so I could be for them the mother that I didn't have. Given that, I think he fulfilled his obligation to me and I wish him nothing but happiness in his life moving forward. I have all I need to be happy.
I like the way you have processed your situation I guess there are no mistakes and for so many here, we take a horrid situation and turn it into gold- that's the miracle...we grow..
we change.. we become better, happier, closer to God or more enlightened (maybe)
Sounds like OD may be depressed and looking at his current lifestyle and choices makes sense that he would-
You are doing great and congrats to your D for all her accomplishments in performing
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I think I've come to the realization that I was supposed to meet and marry him so that I could give birth to the true loves of my life and so I could be for them the mother that I didn't have. Given that, I think he fulfilled his obligation to me and I wish him nothing but happiness in his life moving forward. I have all I need to be happy.
Thank you Peace, you always bring me peace. I'm trying to see things in the most positive light and be grateful for what I have for sure.
KML, this is really becoming clear to me. I think it has always been this way, I think my pride got wound up in this and pushed him up in importance. Glad I have made my way through my fog.
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So, I did have a chance to test my theory that OD was pulling away. When I got back I checked S's phone. Not much contact, a few texts, back to not much substance. No phone calls. No checking in on S when I was obviously out of town. Minor chastising for S not responding to him even though I think it was a cover for not contacting S for days. Then he asked S where to pick him up. No communication with me.
He picked S up from school and then they came here to get S's vehicle. S popped in briefly. From his mood I could tell there was an issue with school, and he made a comment about not having a choice about what was bothering him. I can always tell now. After he left I confirmed it. Another missing assignment and in view of what he said to me, I felt it was important to have a talk with him. Since he was out with OD and at his counseling appointment, I texted OD and told him I needed to speak with S tonight about some issues with school. I told OD that it would be great if he wanted to participate, and if he did not, that was fine too. Surprisingly he read the text right away and responded.
They showed up here. OD still looks awful. Was wearing the same new shirt and a different pair of new pants. They both looked even tighter than before. Still no sign of the ugly coat. OD put his phone face down on the coffee table (remember the time prior he was waving pictures of her in my face). Was it to honor my request, because he knew she or someone would text, no idea.
Went through the background of the problems with S and school. Wanted to make sure OD and S heard everything and everyone was on the same page. I told S he doesn't have to go to this top school if he doesn't want to, but that I was not hanging around here for the 3rd rate choice, that we would sell the house and move to the place I want to go. S said what about my activity. I said they have your activity there. He said oh yeah. OD said nothing, but he should have definitely heard that I am getting out of here when the school thing is over.
After the summary, OD jumped right in being fatherly, mostly supporting what I have been telling S. I had S do his course form for next year so OD couldn't claim he didn't know what S was taking or the courses were too hard or whatever. Seemed as though the two of them had been discussing the options. OD was being good with S but would not look at me. S was looking at his feet and I kept saying, for both of their benefits, that it was polite to look people in the eye when they are speaking to you. S went to his room to get a form. I said is there a reason you aren't looking at me. He said I'm just tired. And then he was better with eye contact.
OD seemed in a rush to get out of there. I would put his time in the house at about 45 minutes. I said you never commented on the pictures of D. He said she looks good. I said no, she looks great (she has lost a bunch of weight, kept it off, and is stunningly beautiful). He didn't really say anything. I played him the recordings I made at the recital. He seemed bored. I told him I wasn't thrilled about her living situation (I want to buy a condo near her school and have been trying to work into a discussion of selling the house to make that happen), he showed next to no interest.
When we were done with the discussion and forms for S he jumped up and announced he needed to go (had been texting someone). I walked him down. I said when we spoke previously I told you it bothers me when you don't acknowledge when I go out of my way to send you something pertaining to the kids (such as the pictures and recording). He said I'm grateful. I said I hope you are planning to keep things up with S, he wants you in his life and he is a good kid. He said I want to be in his life. I want him to call me Sunday and I want to talk to him about his schoolwork next week. He mentioned D and said something about not knowing her or talking to her or something. He said maybe someday or maybe not. I said don't say that. You have to keep trying. He said it wasn't in his control. I said it is in your control (meaning his effort, his apology, etc.). He said I'm not arguing with you about that. Then, in a dismissive way to let me know he was leaving, he said, can you shut the garage door after me.
So, warm and paternal with S. Made a rude comment about the house. Was annoyed at the cat sniffing him. Wouldn't look me in the eye but mostly on the same page about S and his schoolwork and activity. Clearly back in the mode that people just need to move on and if D doesn't want anything to do with him that is fine. No mention of the separation agreement. No mention of meeting to get it done. No mention of the auto insurance he hasn't moved. Still hasn't produced the health insurance cards. Not a full cycle away, but definitely a retreat. Very eager to get out of here, presumably to meet up with someone. OW2, OW3? Who knows. It is going to be very hard to get to the selling the house talk with him if he keeps this up.
Facial hair status: clean shaven Consecutive visits with S: 3 (and no attempts to get out. He's now seen him more than all of last year in total time and number of visits).
I should say this is the first time he and I have had a talk in 3 years that didn't include any back and forth jabs. I did discuss a few boundaries/prior requests (responding when I send him things, looking me in the eye, etc.) and he took them very well. Even though he knew I was going to have a tough talk with S, he responded immediately and showed up. He would not have been able to do this previously.
He's still waffling between staying in his fantasy world and returning to the real one that has responsibilities. He can only handle so much and then he has to leave and mull things over. He may have had a meet up w/someone, i.e., could have been a male or female friend, but at least he stayed for a bit.
Try not to over load him with stuff just yet. Like a skittish colt, he needs to be hand fed bits and pieces of oats to get him to where you want him.
Enjoy your weekend!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
makes sense what Job said he probably can only handle small doses of reality and very small /tiny doses of self reflection
living in denial and running from one addiction to another- stuffing feelings ect takes its toll
I think it is good that he shows some signs of improvement and it still may be years until he can recover from all the damage
I wonder if these Mlcers never get support or some kind of therapy- what are their chances of recovering on their own? Job do you know if they can recover with no therapy or help?
keep expectations lower than low-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Yes, they can recover w/o therapy. I know of a couple of MLCers that have come back to realty, faced their demons and reconciled w/their family all w/o therapy.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job thanks for the reminder on not asking him to do anything, and Peace for the reminder to keep expectations very low. I would not have roped him into a parenting talk, except that S was with him when I discovered the school issue and I was afraid they would head off to a movie or something, leaving S no time to do the current homework, much less the past due. I definitely gave him an out in terms of coming or participating. I was surprised that he did come knowing there would be a difficult discussion because about 6 weeks ago he wouldn't even get off the freeway when he drove right by our house to see S when I asked him to because S was self-harming heading into his finals (and at that point he hadn't seen S in a while). He pretty much supported my approach regarding S's schoolwork and expectations and he displayed a lot of empathy and affection toward S. He reiterated to S that he was not mad at him, that he understood the struggles, and he gave S a very warm hug when he left.
It occurred to me later that the texting could have been work-related (he always had a lot of that in the evenings regarding patient loads, overnight instructions, etc.) or could even have been a means to test me to see how I would react (I remember Happy Again's threads in the efforts he took to test his W to see if she had really changed). In the past I would have told him not to do it in front of me or in my house. I didn't care who he was texting and I think I made that obvious through my actions (or lack thereof). I could also see him, having appeased me by putting his phone face down, determined to show me that I couldn't control his behavior. I also think he was texting when S left the room, so probably a way to put a barrier between us and handle his anxiety in case I might try to bring up the separation agreement.
In terms of him rushing off, it was 8 pm by then, with an hour drive back to where he lives. He may have also wanted to leave so that S could get his work done. Will never know one way or another, but I should probably stop assuming the worst of him all the time.
I hate to say this but I personally have no hope for OD to ever go to counseling, and I don't have a lot of faith in counselors myself so I doubt that I would even encourage it at this point. I've been to quite a few now, and I did not personally have any revelations there that were any better or more helpful than simply reading well-reviewed books on the various topics.
I plan to not initiate any contact with him for at least a month, when I will have to contact him to get signatures for our taxes. In all, there was some definite pulling back in communication and eye contact, but positives too. He showed up, he demonstrated empathy, he helped to problem solve, he didn't run from a difficult conversation, he was cooperative with me in communication and coming, and he didn't say anything too snarky.
