Marriage and depression

[SoTorn]

You get the message to her by focusing on yourself and showing her that you are perfectly happy, content and able to take care of yourself alone and that you do not need her.

Your detachment is her loss. You focusing on yourself is moving on without her. Remember, you need to make decisions on how to act and with your behavior with the sole purpose of bettering yourself.

Who cares what message she gets or what she thinks? Do what makes you happy. Do what makes your kids happy. What your WW thinks has no bearing or value on what you do now. Her opinions do not matter, how she reacts and feels does not matter.

Of course that doesnt mean that it's ok to be hateful towards her or do things to purposely hurt her or get a rise out of her. You must be indifferent to her. No matter what she says, does, feels or how she reacts, your actions are only based on how they affect you and your kids.

Set yourself a date on when you will evaluate your situation to see if it makes sense for you to file for D. Remember this is a marathon and not a sprint. You will have to be strong and just sit back and focus on yourself for months and maybe even a year or more.

I set my date as March because that's a year from when I know my WW started her A. Just keep up the DB. Push through the emotions generated by her betrayal. It's very hard but you can do it. Recognize the emotions and make sure they do not drive you.

I am still very angry with my WW for what she is doing and how she treats me. But I show her nothing but content with myself. Beyond me constantly asking her to leave me alone, all of my focus is on myself and my kids.

[Phoenix9]

Hi Dave,

I haven’t read through much of your sitch yet, but I did just catch your last few posts about what you are being put through. It’s perfecrly normal to feel those things and to let it out. This is a very painful time in your life and you should react as such.

I caution you as well about making or saying anything out of emotion as it can make your hole that much deeper to dig out of. I am learning the hard way that emotionally charged words can cause undesirable consequences.

Try to take care of yourself the best you can. Vent here. Spew the bile you have held in you. Better to lay it here than out to your loved ones.

[DaveK]

Hi Dave,

I haven’t read through much of your sitch yet, but I did just catch your last few posts about what you are being put through. It’s perfecrly normal to feel those things and to let it out. This is a very painful time in your life and you should react as such.

I caution you as well about making or saying anything out of emotion as it can make your hole that much deeper to dig out of. I am learning the hard way that emotionally charged words can cause undesirable consequences.

Try to take care of yourself the best you can. Vent here. Spew the bile you have held in you. Better to lay it here than out to your loved ones.

Thank you. It is the worst time in my life, a lot of hurt. I rather have another kidney stone than go through this any longer. This morning I bit my tongue a few times. I gave my wife a nice coffee container for xmas and it came with a small container. She saw it on the counter and was joking "What should I do with it? Put my loose screws in there?" My first thought was that the container isn't big enough for her loose screws to hold, but I didn't react to it at all. We talked only a few sentences.

I love my wife and the only bad thing I can say about her is being so ridiculously stupid starting an affair with an immature guy who has no worries and no responsibilities while being a mean drunk....and from what I gathered he is wasted a lot. That part hurts me the most. That train wreck of a guy is the better choice? I don't know him personally, so I have no idea how he is when sober. The bits that I came across from their conversations disgusted me because I never treated my wife like that.

Going dark is so damn hard. Cutting her off financially is a safeguard, but also a worry that she will now rack up CC debt. I have yet to run a credit check on her. It's come that far that I lost all trust in her. And what for? Her plan will not work...if she even has a plan. It also will bother me a lot when she has to ask me for everything like food and clothing.

I also don't know how long this going dark needs to last. I don't expect it to be the magic thing that brings change within a week. I also have not figured out how to spend time with the kids and be not home much. S13 is easier, he sometimes joins me for gym, we went to the movies, and he does not mind going shopping with me. S17 is a different story...he got all mad at me for not buying the right spam. He is applying for a job at the drama club they both go to and his resume is about the worst one I have seen. He insists of doing this alone. I told him again that I am involved in a lot of hiring the past years, getting many resumes. I told him that he should hear my advice and then decide if he wants to use it.

Got to get some work done.....still don't understand why WW is so damn stupid and why her therapist doesn't give her a reality check.Facebook is great...someone disagrees, you block them. It's lalaland and that is where WW is living in. I have to wait until she returns back to reality.

[Adam04]

Dave,

There are some good things you've been doing but I am afraid of your mental state when doing some of those things. People have talked about this to you and you are responding to some of the posts but I am not sure you are reading and absorbing what you really need to.

You still talk about going dark when people have talked about that to you. I don't think you have fully read Sandi's WW posts either because that would have clued you in to much of what the EQ talk was all about. Forget EQ, love language and all that. Read all of Sandis posts and see that as a man you need to gain back RESPECT from your WW. To do that, you must first cut out the crying in front of her. Do that alone. Noone is saying you cant cry, but just not in front of her. Control your emotions. You're W has told you how she sees you regarding your emotions, its not attractive to them.

You're confused and making decisions that could have a far worse impact.

Good moves, seeing a counselor, checking into meds, coming here, seeing a lawyer, IMO the beneficiary change was a good move for your sons. Reading and learning. taking responsibility of protecting yourself financially.

Needs work: your emotional state and understanding what the sitch calls for from you. if you do not have the mental strength now, its okay. You can build that as you go and grow. Be careful about doing things out of anger and to teach your W a lesson.

When you take an action can you predict what that will do? You cutting your wife off will cause her to run up the CC bill. Does this impact you overall? if it does, then you need to play smart.

It'll bother you if your wife asks you for food and clothes? What do you mean? I have mentioned you have a moral responsibility to your W if she has no money. it feels like you are doing alllll this to punish her and you are ignoring what people are telling you here.

You're buying the food right? She wont need money for food then unless she is buying other stuff that you aren't. Money for clothes? Doesn't sound unreasonable if she needs essentials, women products, deodorants, new garments... nothing over the top or extravagant.

I think you're hurt and using whatever you find as a means to get back to your W to hurt her to make her see you are the better choice. It wont work that way. I'm afraid you have a lot of work to do to become emotionally stable.

I know if I was in your shoes I wouldn't like to hear that and I'm sorry for feeling like I need to express that to you but you are going to make things worse down the line if you don't stop letting your emotions get the best of you.

Her therapist is going to make her feel good about herself so if she believes this other guy is the answer, then her therapist will help support that. Don't you want to be happy? Isn't your therapist trying to help you to become happy? Same goes for her.

As for your S17, sorry to hear its more difficult, I think that comes with the age too. I also didn't know there was more than one type of spam. fried up spam sounds good.

[MoveFrwd]

I love my wife and the only bad thing I can say about her is being so ridiculously stupid starting an affair with an immature guy who has no worries and no responsibilities while being a mean drunk....and from what I gathered he is wasted a lot. That part hurts me the most. That train wreck of a guy is the better choice? I don't know him personally, so I have no idea how he is when sober. The bits that I came across from their conversations disgusted me because I never treated my wife like that.

The "value" of this guy isnt a reflection on you. Read up on "Affair Down".
Honestly, the guy is going after a married woman. It's pretty clear he doesnt have much moral character from the outset.

Cutting her off financially is a safeguard, but also a worry that she will now rack up CC debt. I have yet to run a credit check on her. It's come that far that I lost all trust in her. And what for? Her plan will not work...if she even has a plan. It also will bother me a lot when she has to ask me for everything like food and clothing.

It isnt your job to 'save' her. She fired you from that job. What else are you doing to protect yourself and your kids from her cc debt?

I also don't know how long this going dark needs to last. I don't expect it to be the magic thing that brings change within a week.

Why do you think we are recommending to go dark? No, probably nothing is going to change within a week. Maybe not for several months. If ever.

The point is twofold.

1) It relieves the pressure on her of you 'being there'. If gives her the freedom she is asking for without needing to see your face and hear your voice and answer your texts all the time.
2) It gives you the freedom to start to detach from her and better control your emotions. It gives you the line you need to go out and GAL and redefine who you are. If you are always getting your teeth knocked in by her meanness or disgust or whatever, how are you going to find your PMA and what you need to improve yourself.

That said, going dark wont have any meaning if you dont use this time to improve. She isnt going to come back to be in the same marriage. How would it be different next time? Now is the time for you to figure that out. How will YOU be different?

I also have not figured out how to spend time with the kids and be not home much. S13 is easier, he sometimes joins me for gym, we went to the movies, and he does not mind going shopping with me. S17 is a different story...he got all mad at me for not buying the right spam. He is applying for a job at the drama club they both go to and his resume is about the worst one I have seen. He insists of doing this alone. I told him again that I am involved in a lot of hiring the past years, getting many resumes. I told him that he should hear my advice and then decide if he wants to use it.

Im not sure theres an easy answer. I dont have a lot of experience with teenagers (yet).
I do know that you need to find some GAL outside of kids also.
What are you doing for you outside of the home? What are you doing outside of your "comfort zone"?

Got to get some work done.....still don't understand why WW is so damn stupid and why her therapist doesn't give her a reality check.Facebook is great...someone disagrees, you block them. It's lalaland and that is where WW is living in. I have to wait until she returns back to reality.

Youre right that she is in lalaland. BUT, it isnt like she will 'snap out of it' and return to have the exact same marriage as you had before. There is a reason she WENT to lalaland. She didnt just wake up there. So like I said above, what will be different next time?

And I noticed that you didnt answer my question before. Do you feel like she has any fear of you dumping her?

[ovrrnbw]

Of course, if she moves out and takes the kids with her...

If this is a real concern, speak with your lawyer if there are legal steps you can take to prevent this.

I discussed this with the lawyer and by NY law there can be joint and sole custody. I have to pay child support if the kids do not live with me. Add to that spousal support and I am toast. Can I prevent her loading the kids up in the car and taking them somewhere I don't know. No, I cannot prevent that. I work outside the home and if she does that I need to get with police I guess. This did not happen, so no point in thinking about it.

Ok, how would you not get at least half custody? Is this a New York thing?

The more times you get super upset, the more you will begin to realize that these emotions come and go. You feel bad, then it fades. Use that to your advantage.

You need to get your focus off of her. It's hard to do. You can't control anything she is doing, so please don't waste any more time or headspace on her. It's only hurting you. So your goal is to catch yourself thinking about her, and then take control of that by getting up and running, or going out to a coffee shop, or calling a friend, or going to gym, etc.

And please don't wait for her to return to reality. Go take action to make your life better and minimize your interactions with her so she can't hurt you as much.

[ovrrnbw]

Read up on "Affair Down".

Great Google results on this. Also it's quite objective and cruel.

[DaveK]

Dave,

There are some good things you've been doing but I am afraid of your mental state when doing some of those things. People have talked about this to you and you are responding to some of the posts but I am not sure you are reading and absorbing what you really need to.

There is just so much of information and action needed right now. Plus a full time job and essentially running the household because WW doesn't do much. I go at a speed that is not sustainable for me, but I got a lot of the tasks done.

You still talk about going dark when people have talked about that to you. I don't think you have fully read Sandi's WW posts either because that would have clued you in to much of what the EQ talk was all about. Forget EQ, love language and all that. Read all of Sandis posts and see that as a man you need to gain back RESPECT from your WW. To do that, you must first cut out the crying in front of her. Do that alone. Noone is saying you cant cry, but just not in front of her. Control your emotions. You're W has told you how she sees you regarding your emotions, its not attractive to them.

I will reread the posts. One issue is that I have a therapist, this forum, a self-help group, and the lawyer telling me stuff. Even within this thread I found some things confusing (such as no communication vs still talk to her when addressed to not come across as a jerk). Add to that the useless advice from clueless people to "kick her out" or stuff like that.
I have a rough time understanding what "going dark" means in practice. Yes, there are the posts, but the situations I encounter are not addressed there. For example, in the morning I make coffee and it is enough for both of us. While I drink coffee I set at the kitchen table while she is somewhere else, but at times comes to the kitchen to get more coffee. It is also a rather small place, so sitting somewhere else is not really an option.
She keeps sending me FB messages and I don't know if I should read them, but not respond. Read them with delay, or read and respond as in she is addressing me and ignoring her would be rude. I do not send her messages or texts or anything, not even start a conversation.
Further, making myself sparse at home is difficult in upstate NY where winter weather will put things to a standstill. Last thing I need is a car accident.

I cried in front of her when she told me the news and then a few times after. I haven't done this in months. This was not a recent event. I may not have made that clear.

You're confused and making decisions that could have a far worse impact.

Good moves, seeing a counselor, checking into meds, coming here, seeing a lawyer, IMO the beneficiary change was a good move for your sons. Reading and learning. taking responsibility of protecting yourself financially.

Needs work: your emotional state and understanding what the sitch calls for from you. if you do not have the mental strength now, its okay. You can build that as you go and grow. Be careful about doing things out of anger and to teach your W a lesson.

The financial changes are not out of anger and I don't want to teach her a lesson. Essentially nothing changed and she still has access to funds in the shared account. I did not pick it clean. That she might take it as me wanting to teacher a lesson is my concern, but I cannot control that. I am not angry. If anything I am deeply saddened that I lost her and hurt by the total rejection. So far nobody could give me practical advice on how to cope with this.

When you take an action can you predict what that will do? You cutting your wife off will cause her to run up the CC bill. Does this impact you overall? if it does, then you need to play smart.

There will be always money in the shared account for her to spend, but not my whole paycheck or the tax return.
I really appreciate your advice, but you write "need to play smart" and then leave me hanging. What is in your opinion a smart move to protect me and my sons financially without upsetting WW even more? That is what I mean with practical advice. Buzz words like "play smart", "EQ", "go dark", "self diag" have little meaning to someone who does not know what that is and how to apply it. This is not a complaint in any way, I only want to explain what my problem with understanding your advice is.

It'll bother you if your wife asks you for food and clothes? What do you mean? I have mentioned you have a moral responsibility to your W if she has no money. it feels like you are doing alllll this to punish her and you are ignoring what people are telling you here.

I have misstated it. She will have money, right now she has around 500$ she can get her hands on and I will provide at least that each month. It will not support her current spending level which we just cannot afford.

You're buying the food right? She wont need money for food then unless she is buying other stuff that you aren't. Money for clothes? Doesn't sound unreasonable if she needs essentials, women products, deodorants, new garments... nothing over the top or extravagant.

Yes, I do grocery shopping and meal planning, but then she decides that she wants to cook Indian food and goes to the Asian market to drop 30$ on ingredients. I think she does that mainly to impress OM. I do not know if she does it to piss me off.
We also have an overabundance at food in the house. It is WW's reaction to her childhood where she had to go at times for months without food at home because both parents were in mental hospitals. She was dependent on the good will of relatives and neighbors.

I think you're hurt and using whatever you find as a means to get back to your W to hurt her to make her see you are the better choice. It wont work that way. I'm afraid you have a lot of work to do to become emotionally stable.

I do not want to hurt her. The past months I did everything for her, but it didn't do anything. I now understand that it was because she doesn't want that attention from me. So no matter how nice I am, it won't do anything.
Yes, there is a lot of work to do and there will be missteps. None of this ever crossed my mind all my life. Now I have to deal with it and for the most part wing it.

I know if I was in your shoes I wouldn't like to hear that and I'm sorry for feeling like I need to express that to you but you are going to make things worse down the line if you don't stop letting your emotions get the best of you.

What upsets me a bit is that several people tell me "you are doing it wrong", but fail to detail what the better plan of action is. The main reason I am here is because I am utterly helpless and have no clue what to do. Of the things I did the past days, I have no clue what the reaction is. It's like riding a roller coaster for the first time in your life, you have no idea what to expect.
I don't want to come across as thankless. I really truly appreciate you all huddling around me to help. I bet you have better things to do in life. I am learning, so bear with me. I will see that I ask more questions rather than make statements, seems that will get me closer to where I need to be.

Her therapist is going to make her feel good about herself so if she believes this other guy is the answer, then her therapist will help support that. Don't you want to be happy? Isn't your therapist trying to help you to become happy? Same goes for her.

Others tell me that her therapist will give her a reality check. I doubt it. I think you are more on the money with him wanting to make her feel happy by endorsing her kinda reckless behavior...and I mean that mostly in regards to our kids. What example does she set for them? You have a relationship crisis and the best thing is to just hook up with someone else? Yes, I had the same thoughts a while back, but they are wrong.

As for your S17, sorry to hear its more difficult, I think that comes with the age too. I also didn't know there was more than one type of spam. fried up spam sounds good.

He said to get the spam from a specific store and that is what I did. It wasn't the Spam brand....now I know, won't happen again.

[DaveK]

Adam04....on my way back home from work and all night I could not get one thing out of my head that you wrote. "I'm afraid you have a lot of work to do to become emotionally stable"

You are right...and I want to apologize if I came across as harsh and thankless. I am not emotionally stable. Otherwise I would not be sitting in my car at a red light and start crying.
All this is just a lot to go through, a lot of things to read and process and learn and do and think about. Not one thing at a time, but everything at once on top of working to keep the lights on and keeping home somewhat healthy to live in.
I realize it now. Thinking back the past days....I was picking pointless fights at work. I constantly are on edge about to fall off. I don't know how I even make it through all this.
I need time, it's a long journey, and Rome wasn't built in a day. Maybe it is also that I put to much pressure on myself. Do all this, be super dad, and then find the time to "take care of myself".I will take care of myself tonight and work on my stamps.I got to slow down.

[DaveK]

Read up on "Affair Down".

Great Google results on this. Also it's quite objective and cruel.

Yes, cruel...at least what I read so far. Puts things into perspective, but makes me feel even more miserable and helpless....as if I have no chance..... ever. And it kinda makes me feel as if all is my fault, although nothing that I read so far states that.