That’s so much good news. Take a moment and look back and re-evaluate your position. Look at the progress you are making. Gain strength from that. You are on the right path and becoming self aware, you’re not a mindless work drone for you W.
Few things, you say you notice this makes your W uncomfortable, good. Whatever you do, do not talk to her about your changes or ask if she’s noticed. She needs to feel like you’ve moved on and as if she is losing you and lost you.
This will be tough but once you get your own life, it will get easier.
I was worried that you would be confused with the principles from the different books but you have realized where you are at. With DR, that book tells you that you can’t change them but you can start to work on you and change you. You work on your half that got you here with your W. When you change you, this creates a change in the old dynamic between you and W. She no longer is dealing what the same you. The new you is no longer dealing with her in the same old routine. This slowly creates change.
You nailed it when you said those techniques in other books are when both parties are committed. When you two are all in for saving the marriage, you both can do things where the other spouse is receptive. This is key to understand, it says you understand you can’t force anything on her or use gimmicks to try and win her back. She genuinely has to want to work it out. I’m not saying to give up on the marriage but use this time wisely to work on you, to figure things out on how you can change for better.
Bad attitudes can rub off on people but so can good ones. Be strong here and show her positivity at all times.
Something your W said really struck me and I know it totally went over your head at the time. In one of your posts your wife said, the guy is emotionally intelligent and said you acted like a brick and you said you didn’t know what that meant. Do you still not know? Her saying that is a huge red flag and by your actions and naivity, I think this is where a lot of the fixing needs to be, your emotional control. Gain some insight into this. Figure out what you want to do. It’s like we’re still looking under the hood of this relationship to see why it’s not running the way it should have, running a diag on you. You get to choose where you want to spend time and what to improve on. IMO, for the man it starts with the EQ, his emotional control and well being. Detachment is that, creating boundaries is that, being confident.
Gaining knowledge is going to help you understand things better. Once you do that, you get to decide how you want to feel. You get to let go some of the blame, some of the anger, and sadness... not all of it, but you will slowly realize you didn’t push that button to make -her- do what she did, that’s on her. It’s not your job to fix her nor show her because she is blinded by her fog right now. The more you try for her the more futile it will be. You will know this deep down but your mind will tell you conflicting things like to keep trying, maybe something different next time, and you dig yourself deeper and deeper.
It’s good you are spending time with your sons, I know how the older one can be. My S11 plays internet games with teenagers. He’s been on Minecraft before too. I monitor him and teach him about internet etiquette because I take cyber bullying seriously. I have zero tolerance for that so my son knows he better have the correct attitude playing online as he does when talking to anyone in person. People these days think they can become their worse selves online because of anonymity and it’s ok. I’m going off on a tangent. We have a a board up for the kids to track money they make for doing odd little things around the house. The other night I was in my son’s room, hanging with him talking about the newest thing he’s in to, that ASMR? He got a little embarrassed but we talked and then I was just laying there with him enjoying our time and he goes uh dad...and I’m like yeah, lil smothering? He laughs and goes yeah, so I took my cue. S6 though? We can play alll day and he never gets tired of having a buddy.
It’s okay to feel scared and like you want to throw up. I think this was some of that turning point for me. I had to readjust in thinking maybe I was not going to be able to save my marriage and it made me feel sick to my stomach at first. I think you will keep feeling this at some key points due to the shock and realizations. It’s growing pangs. Allow yourself to feel them and try to understand what it means. It’s very important for you to find the courage and strength right now. Be patient and be kind to yourself and to others. Keep loving, keep learning, keep living.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Ovrr is right, try not to ignore her when she talks to you. My H ignored me for months. Outright pretended I was not in the room. It made me feel like a piece of sh!t. So I say this from someone who has been there. Everyone has the right to be treated like a person. Even when they act like entitled [censored]s. Even when you cannot bare the site of them. Detaching does not mean ignoring. It means not letting their words and behaviour dictate your reaction. Don't let her set the temperature in the room.
it is true, you cannot nice someone back, but at the end of the day, you have to be able to live with yourself and know that throughout it all, you acted honourably.
You are doing great. Keep focusing on your sons. PS - i often bribe my kids into doing their chores. Their pocket money is tied into their chores and behaviour.
you have to be able to live with yourself and know that throughout it all, you acted honourably.
FS,
That's it right there. Also, I want to add, it's okay to stumble. We are all not perfect.
Dave, if you acted outside of yourself or you find that you were not in your right mind for a time being, you can ALWAYS change for the better.
What I've seen many people do and I have been at fault is think they know what to do, they act and realize later it wasn't the best thing they could have done and they kick themselves for saying this or doing that. They're down on themselves and create this extra anxiety because they are too hard on themselves.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Learn to be patient, forgiving, and loving of yourself.
Originally Posted by FlySolo
Their pocket money is tied into their chores and behaviour.
I have been spending more time rewarding and recognizing the behaviors of my boys. Apart from schoolwork and daily chores(responsibilities), it's very important to promote healthy behavior in our children today. I also talk to them about it to varying degrees.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Thank you all for your excellent advice and encouragement. I still have to learn a lot of what "going dark" means. I read most of the thread, but the concept is foreign to me. I will adjust now to be not as stone wallish as I was in the past days. As it said somewhere, going dark is not on/off, but a dimmer. If I turn the light on a bit it might now shine even brighter then it used to.
Just got back from the gym, good place to think. When WW asks about the finances, I can honestly say that not much changed. I will still go ahead and cancel the shared CC...it will help us both to be a bit more cautious about spending. My credit is kick ass....so if the need arises that I need another card I am sure I can get one.
Oh....one more question....wedding ring? I took it off yesterday for the first time since I got married and regretted it today. So I put it back on. I know it is just a ring, but it means a lot to me. Growing up I was this awkward, shy, overweight guy who never thought he could get a gf or get married. OK, I am still awkward, shy, and overweight, but I got to marry the love of my life.
Really hope she sees that I am a diamond and other guys are just pebbles.
Oh....one more question....wedding ring? I took it off yesterday for the first time since I got married and regretted it today. So I put it back on. I know it is just a ring, but it means a lot to me.
Each person is different. My H took his off and left it in a box on his dresser the day he left. I have kept mine on. And H knows it. To me, I'm still married, and it signifies standing and wanting R someday. I'm not trying to be available when I go out, so to me, it stays on, at least for now. It did occur to me the other day, though, that sometimes I forget to put it back on after excrcise. Sometimes for a day or 2. I has a fleeting thought that this might signify a potential turning point in me. What that is, I don't know yet.
That’s so much good news. Take a moment and look back and re-evaluate your position. Look at the progress you are making. Gain strength from that. You are on the right path and becoming self aware, you’re not a mindless work drone for you W.
It was a rough week, not even, and I did so many things I never imagined I'd do and most of them I also really did not want to do. I always trusted W blindly (by the way, her name starts with a W, so writing W comes naturally) and finally I realize that she has to earn that trust back after her betrayal.
Originally Posted by Adam04
... This slowly creates change.
This is key and I have to remind myself of it often. I have to have patience. Things do not change within a matter of days. I got new air filters for the furnaces and for the indoor air filters. W has many allergies that she suffers from exceptionally hard for about a year now. She got tons of allergy shots that didn't do a thing, but I read that these shots can have side effects that trigger mental issues, such as depression.
Originally Posted by Adam04
You nailed it when you said those techniques in other books are when both parties are committed. When you two are all in for saving the marriage, you both can do things where the other spouse is receptive. This is key to understand, it says you understand you can’t force anything on her or use gimmicks to try and win her back. She genuinely has to want to work it out. I’m not saying to give up on the marriage but use this time wisely to work on you, to figure things out on how you can change for better.
Bad attitudes can rub off on people but so can good ones. Be strong here and show her positivity at all times.
Thanks for pointing this out. The past days my going dark might have been a tad too dark. I immediately adjusted and we joked about my gym visit. Still fuzzy a bit on going dark...mainly because I never did this before. I will figure this out.
Originally Posted by Adam04
Something your W said really struck me and I know it totally went over your head at the time. In one of your posts your wife said, the guy is emotionally intelligent and said you acted like a brick and you said you didn’t know what that meant. Do you still not know? Her saying that is a huge red flag and by your actions and naivity, I think this is where a lot of the fixing needs to be, your emotional control. Gain some insight into this. Figure out what you want to do. It’s like we’re still looking under the hood of this relationship to see why it’s not running the way it should have, running a diag on you. You get to choose where you want to spend time and what to improve on. IMO, for the man it starts with the EQ, his emotional control and well being. Detachment is that, creating boundaries is that, being confident.
Honestly, I still don't know what that means. I mentioned it to my therapist and he said that men generally have low emotional intelligence. Months back I heard her crying several times. I walked to where she was and put my hands on her shoulders (that was before she ordered me not to touch her). I told her that things will be OK and that she can talk to me if she wants to. She didn't so I did not ask her any more questions. That was one of the very few times she clearly expressed emotions. Since I know her she never really smiled, even when she was very happy. She rarely complains about anything or says that she is upset or annoyed or happy or delighted or anything. I have an incredibly tough time to gauge what her emotional state is. Come to think, she's like a brick as well and bottles everything up. I have no idea if this has anything to do with this. I appreciate the advice, but I don't know what EQ or running a diag on me means. I comprehend the words, but not the meaning. I don't know what to do. I understand that this is part of the problem, but I don't understand what the problem is and thus have no idea how to fix it.
Originally Posted by Adam04
Gaining knowledge is going to help you understand things better. Once you do that, you get to decide how you want to feel.
Well, I know how I want to feel....loved, which implies being respected. That will generate happiness. Right now I don't feel love.
Originally Posted by Adam04
It’s okay to feel scared and like you want to throw up. I think this was some of that turning point for me. I had to readjust in thinking maybe I was not going to be able to save my marriage and it made me feel sick to my stomach at first. I think you will keep feeling this at some key points due to the shock and realizations. It’s growing pangs. Allow yourself to feel them and try to understand what it means. It’s very important for you to find the courage and strength right now. Be patient and be kind to yourself and to others. Keep loving, keep learning, keep living.
I learn a lot. And I want to save my marriage. I love my W and I want to leave the past behind, including recent events. There is no point being hung up on what happened when what is happening right now is a heckuva lot better. I don't know how long it will take, but I want to tell myself for the rest of my life that I did everything I could once I knew.
What is Emotional Intelligence (EQ)? - Psych Central
1.Self-awareness. The ability to recognize an emotion as it “happens” is the key to your EQ. …
2.Self-regulation. You often have little control over when you experience emotions. You can, …
3.Motivation. To motivate yourself for any achievement requires clear goals and a positive attitude. …
4.Empathy. The ability to recognize how people feel is important to success in your life and career.
From Wiki,
Emotional intelligence (EI) or emotional quotient (EQ) is the capacity of individuals to recognize their own, and other people's emotions, to discriminate between different feelings and label them appropriately, and to use emotional information to guide thinking and behavior.
To me its overcoming emotion and still being rational in the way you respond, being cool headed in a crisis. Still thinking clearly and making sound decisions. Many people don't do this because they're hurt and egocentric, their self preservation kicks into high gear. Fight or Flight. In dealing with the opposite sex, it gets muddled up because you might feel awkward in the moment or not know what your spouse needs.
At work, we value people with high IQ for being smart. They can comprehend the work to get it done, but we also value people with high EQ, because we work as a team, we need team players who put the team first. People need to be aware of personality types like if someone is type A, some ppl don't get along with type A personalities, but someone with a high EQ knows how to coral everyone together for a common goal.
There are books that can help between a couple mentioned around here, talking about the 5 love languages. Have you ever talked to W to know hers and know what she likes or dislikes?
The story about you placing your hands on her shoulder and saying everything will be alright/OK kinda supports what she is referring to. You didn't even know what was bothering her, right? What if she felt guilty for her Affair and hurting you? What if she felt sad she could not be with OM? And instead of you trying to listen or understand her, you bypass all of that and put a lid on it with the "it will be OK"
After that you say she's been a certain way for a very long time, and you have not been able to address it. That is what I am talking about. Seems like she's been very withdrawn and you may not have known what to do.
Validation is important on this site. It puts you on their side because you are understanding, you are listening. There is no arguing against you or saying you don't understand because you are showing her you do. You're getting them to open up, perhaps letting their guard down some. If you are in touch with your emotional side or sometimes people say feminine side, then you know what I mean.
Sometimes its okay to not be alright.
I know... men, we use logic. I like to say I see things in black and white. Like honesty is just that, its there or not there. Things are either present or absent. If a buddy of mine was feeling down, he'd tell me and I would most likely say that's no reason to feel down. That just seems illogical on why something like that could have an affect. My dog died, so what get a new one. know what I mean on that? (I know, sounds a little harsh but that's because there is no emotion there, its through the emotions do we establish the connections to form intimacy.) men we use logic, we believe in honesty, loyalty, and action.
I'm not saying its your fault. I don't know truthfully what's going on with your W. We may never know. So far I see you as a kindhearted guy who is a softy whose W went looking online. You say you moved far away to be with her right? And she cooks Indian food and this is an guy from India. Is there a cultural difference there? Do you think she is trying to connect to someone who knows her culture and have you tried? How did that go if you did?
Well, when I was talking about looking under the hood of your relationship and running a diag, that was car metaphor talk for trying to find all the reasons why there is a problem of the relationship not running smoothly. Its not caused only because of her warwardness is basically what I was saying. There are other reasons to have made her do what she did. To make it better, you must first identify what contributed to the fall out. if you don't and she does give you a chance, you will be right back here somewhere down the road.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
The past days my going dark might have been a tad too dark. I immediately adjusted and we joked about my gym visit. Still fuzzy a bit on going dark...mainly because I never did this before.
In my opinion, going dark is acting as if you fell off the face of the earth. As in 100% no contact. Its very much a Last Resort technique.
Of course, with kids and living together, you cant really GO DARK completely. But I would focus on minimizing contact. And not hanging around her while in your home. Basically, following Sandi's rules as much as you can. Thats about as 'dark' as youll be able to get.
You are right. The past days were absolutely miserable, because what I did and will do scares the crap out of me. I was shocked what responses I got here at first. I don't know what I was expecting, maybe people telling me "awwww, you poor guy, here is how you fix everything", but that is rather naive. I am glad I did not get those responses, because while they would have made me happy for the moment, they would be totally useless in the long run.
I think we come here needing reassurances that we're not crazy, and not the horrible person our WAS makes us out to be. But some of the advice is hard to hear too. I had to take a break for a couple of months because sometimes it felt like I was just getting beat up. Everyone here means well but sometimes we can be a little hard on people because we aren't thinking about how miserable they are.
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It also taught me that this is not the time to date or get involved with anyone. I don't have my mind in the right place, it would be irresponsible to put another woman into this mess, and my intentions are different.
Yes that is it exactly. It's not actually that hard to find someone and have it get serious faster then you intend. But it can really distract you from doing the work you need to do on yourself, not necessarily for your W but just to make sure you are better prepared for any future R whether it's with your W, another woman, or even your kids, friends and family.
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I disagree with your statement "she is not sick". Yes, she is. Read the many stories of people with depressed/bipolar spouses and they are for the most part a carbon copy of my sitch. Does that excuse and explain everything? No, but I would be unfair to not take that into consideration.
Well given her family history you could be right. Unfortunately you are not in a position to help her, because right now you are the last person she wants help from. So your DB'ing doesn't really change much even if she is having mental problems.
Originally Posted by MoveFrwd
In my opinion, going dark is acting as if you fell off the face of the earth. As in 100% no contact. Its very much a Last Resort technique.
Of course, with kids and living together, you cant really GO DARK completely. But I would focus on minimizing contact. And not hanging around her while in your home. Basically, following Sandi's rules as much as you can. Thats about as 'dark' as youll be able to get.
^^^Yes I agree. A lot of people confuse DB'ing and Sandi's rules as what we mean by "going dark". But going dark is usually reserved for someone dealing with a violent, angry, off-the-rails WAS where anything they do around the WAS is met with seething hatred. The best you can do in that situation is completely remove yourself from the equation. It's more to save the LBS than the M.
