Marriage and depression

[DaveK]

Dave, I've seen 2 responses like this from you. You are not being scolded. MoveForward was just trying to put things into perspective for you. When these situations start, the LBS (left behind spouse) is usually so emotionally hurt and weak and they have a hard time thinking logically and being the strong, attractive, healthy person that they were when the relationship began. It takes time for some of this info to sink in too. Your W is in a fog, and so are you. It is cliche around here, but you both need time and space for the air to clear.

I understand this better now. I am on day 2 of my detachment attempts. We barely communicated, but she keeps sending a test balloon by messaging me a funny cat picture. I used to respond to it, but I no longer do. The only message I sent her was today to tell her that I bring dinner home. She also mentioned to me that something is wrong with her PC, but I did not respond to that either. I usually fix it for her, this time she may need to ask my son to help her out or figure it out herself.

Also, depression is in your thread title. If you're depressed I'm going to say I hope to God that you are getting the help you need and working on being healthy!

I do not have clinical depression, but my wife does. She gets treatment now for about six weeks and has regular therapy appointments. I read quite a bit about depression and the impact it has on a marriage. What tipped me off was a section in the book "How to improve your marriage without talking about it" by Love and Stosny. The items listed there what a depressed person typically does during marriage fit very much what W did and how she behaves.
I also joined a self-help group on FB and the stories that spouses of depressed / bipolar SO tell are carbon copies of what I am experiencing. I cannot explain everything with her depression, but I think it does play a larger role here.

As for your finances, you don't need to boot your W off of the joint account, but you should at the very minimum put your funds into your own account for the time being. If she is getting spendy, you will be on the hook for it. You are protecting yourself and your marriage by this. But if you don't do it, I can't say I'd be surprised. As we say when talking business with contractors, "It's only money!" Hopefully you can laugh at that.

I left work early today, went to the bank and opened my own account. I will ask my work to deposit my salary into my account, which will make it fee free. I will set up a recurring monthly transfer that deposits about a quarter of my pay into the joint account. That way that account will not accumulate fees. I will transfer money out of the joint account into my own account once I have it all set up. When I went to the bank I was a nervous wreck, when I left I felt relieved. It is with the same bank, so pushing funds around should not take more than a day.

My guess is my wife will move out or cleverly schedule another trip to India a few days before I come back.

Well that would suck right?

Yes, that would indeed suck. I expect the worst and mentally prepare myself for it. I plan that after my return I will be a single dad.

[SoTorn]

The behavior of not responding is spot on.

I get the dinner thing. I think its hateful detachment that if you are getting dinner for everyone that you get dinner for WW.

However if you plan on eating alone just leave and go eat somewhere without mentioning it.

Keep it up. It gets easier because your emotions flare up way less.

Have you read about temperature checks? If not do it.

Your WW will send mixed signals. She may say you are ignoring her or not paying attention to her, or send you pictures of cats or ask for help fixing something. You ignore all of that. That's her keeping you emotionally attached, aka that's her keeping you as plan B.

If you react you will hurt badly when she rejects you again. So just stay the course. If you get complaints like I did that we never talk or you're never home, validate her feelings. "That could be frustrating " and that's it.

I'm months into my sitch and honestly I detached in a very quick amount of time. I didnt just drop the rope, I lit it on fire and watched it burn.


Plenty of women on earth that wouldnt cheat on me. Same for you.

[ovrrnbw]

Dave, one piece of advice here. Maybe have your separate account at a different bank. Y'all are still married and you never know what kind of mistake a bank teller might make in regards to disclosing or giving funds to your W.

How's things going otherwise? Anything on your mind?

[DaveK]

A quick status update....I have not been sitting around. Yesterday I opened my own bank account and work on transitioning over any payments to that account. I already filed paperwork with my employer to have my salary go into this new account. I will set up recurring payments into the joint account totaling about a quarter of my income. That ought to be plenty for WW to go buy clothes or cover any expenses. Since I am in control then of that amount I can adjust as needed. My plan is to get that all squared out within the next two weeks. I will transfer some amount to my account as soon as I get online access to my new account....of course that is not working as desired, but the bank has a 24x7 help line.

My boss went through divorce over 3 years ago and I asked him about the lawyer he used. I have an appointment on Monday as informational session only. I want to make sure that I know everything I need to know to file for legal separation purely for the sake of protecting myself and my kids. I don't want to be on the street...and neither do I want that for WW.

I also make plans to cancel the CC that we both use after I called up the car insurance company to provide them with new billing info. When I do that I will tell WW as FYI....and I figure at that point the latest she will catch on what is happening, so I need to time it right. Not looking forward to that encounter.

When I called the lawyer he asked me about the CC debt of WW. I do not have access to that info unless I snoop through her emails or look in her browser profile for the user name and password assuming she saved it. I'm somewhat hesitant to do that because it would be a giant break of trust.....not that she is forthcoming with anything.

I also wonder how I should respond if the kids come and ask me what the heck is going on. I am concerned that if I am open and clear with them that they will carry the news to WW, not because of any malintent, simply because they love their mom.

I go an eat lunch......this all is ridiculously stressful and I have to remind myself that time is of essence, but I don't need to move that mountain in a day. Gym tonight, they got new rowing machines that are fun.

[Ready2Change]

I also wonder how I should respond if the kids come and ask me what the heck is going on. I am concerned that if I am open and clear with them that they will carry the news to WW, not because of any malintent, simply because they love their mom.

Most likely they won't ask, but they are older.

Kids:"What the heck is going on?"
Dad:"Why do you ask?"

Listen to them. Validate their concerns.

I would be vague.

Dad "I am not sure exactly. Your mom and I are dealing with some adult stuff. I will talk with mom about your concerns."

[DaveK]

Dave, one piece of advice here. Maybe have your separate account at a different bank. Y'all are still married and you never know what kind of mistake a bank teller might make in regards to disclosing or giving funds to your W.

How's things going otherwise? Anything on your mind?

I thought about it, but I talked to the bank that I have now and due to the different profiles she cannot see my account, but I can manage both mine and the shared account. It will work in our favor since money transfers are instant.
While I understand now to make sure I have cash in the pocket I want to keep things cordial as much as possible. When the gloves come off only one group gets rich: the lawyers.

Today was another rough day. I hate all of it. ´Nevertheless, I got my other account all set up, transferred a reasonable amount for starters over to my account, tomorrow I will travel the banks to change the founding sources for automated payments (2 car loans) and find out what gets charged automatically against the shared CC. From what I recall it is only the car insurance. I am sure if I call them they will change it. After all they don't care where the money is coming from as long as they get it. I wrote a to do list and it is very long, but I knocked off a good chunk today.

I also inquired about psychiatrist/nurse practitioner for myself. Based on the assessment of my therapist who is also a medical doctor I may have mild clinical depression myself. At times I just lose it, I cry and are like a helpless child in the middle of a dark forest in a snow storm. I have no idea how to deal with that. After a few hours doing stuff it gets better. That's the biggest issue....being lonely, having nobody....I know I have folks here, random strangers who spend their time to help me although there are thousand of better things to do.

Anyhow...just made a date for tomorrow with my youngest son. We will go to the movies. Oldest son has no interest, but that's no surprise. No matter what anyone suggests he hates it, it's the age.

Got plenty of food, so nobody goes hungry.... now a load of laundry and then some StarTrek if I don't fall asleep like the three cats on my bed.

Worst time of my life...and I hate it all.

[DaveK]

Usually the comments that anger us the most here are the truth darts that are hitting closest to the target. So ask yourself why you find that offensive. I mean YOU made the following comment:

Months ago I was seeking a replacement for my wife

So just a few months ago you were so done that you were looking for her "replacement"! And now suddenly you're going to die if you can't save your M? Move is right, you're caught in the WAS fog. [...] But when you detach and give her space then at some point she'll realize her problems are not YOU, but are internal. And then maybe she'll start addressing them.

You are right. The past days were absolutely miserable, because what I did and will do scares the crap out of me. I was shocked what responses I got here at first. I don't know what I was expecting, maybe people telling me "awwww, you poor guy, here is how you fix everything", but that is rather naive. I am glad I did not get those responses, because while they would have made me happy for the moment, they would be totally useless in the long run.

As far as "replacement for my wife"....it was a gut reaction to just find someone else. It taught me a lot of things. There are plenty of women or folks who claim to be women who only want to screw me over asking for cash, gift cards, iPhones, and once even prescription pain killers. In one case it started off much different and I was wondering if it might be something until I sent her an early Christmas card to the address she gave me. Card came back, which was no surprise. I work with a lot of digital map sources and that address is an empty parcel. So she was a fake, no matter how many messages and texts she sent me after I called it quits.
It also taught me that this is not the time to date or get involved with anyone. I don't have my mind in the right place, it would be irresponsible to put another woman into this mess, and my intentions are different. While I was talking to other women I always felt it to be wrong. It also does not match the values I mentioned. I never cheated and I do not start with this now even if I have reason. It is morally wrong.
I also was reminded of what my intentions are. As I mentioned early on, I love my wife. I still do. Just because she went off the rails and hooked up with someone else does not give me permission to do the same. Even if this ends up in divorce, I will still think highly of my wife. During all this time she only disappointed and hurt me with one thing: her affair. Other than that I have nothing bad to say about her.

Well you can look at it like that or you can listen to my outlook on my own sitch: "that was a fantastic 20 years together that allowed us to have 3 beautiful children who have grown into amazing adults, and now that chapter is closing and another is opening, but I will always look back on that fondly." Just because she wants out now doesn't mean that it wasn't worthwhile time together.

That is correct. I do not regret leaving my home, my family, move to a place where I had nothing other than someone who loves me...and we made it. We built a world for us and our kids and there are only very few things I regret.

Would I do the same if she had cancer or was paralyzed?

Here is the question you have to ask yourself every day: "do I love her enough to let her go?" You need to give her what she wants. If she were sick she would want your love and support. But she's not sick, and what she wants is you out of her life. So do you love her enough to give her what SHE wants and quit trying to force on her what YOU want?

That is an area I am still unsure about. All her family had and has at times debilitating mental illness. During her youth her parents were at times both hospitalized for months. They had no food, were on the brink of getting evicted, and it brought a lot of crushing hardship on the family. WW's sister still suffers from it, self-medicating for years with heavy drinking that she needed hip replacements at 40. Mental illness is a serious illness, but many have trouble to understand that the person with mental illness has no control over it and often not over themselves. They do things that are not based on rational thinking. I draw the parallel to cancer or being paralyzed because folks can much easier relate to those illnesses and handicaps. I disagree with your statement "she is not sick". Yes, she is. Read the many stories of people with depressed/bipolar spouses and they are for the most part a carbon copy of my sitch. Does that excuse and explain everything? No, but I would be unfair to not take that into consideration.

[DaveK]

Had to break the radio silence today to get tax info from WW. Tax return will go into my account and I will send half of it to the shared account for her to use. She will use it to pay off her CC debt (at least that is what she used to do in the past), but we have other debt as well that needs to be taken care of. So it will work in her favor when I split it 50/50.
Got more info collected for the financial stuff and I will get most of that sorted out during the next days. Seems that she has not caught on to the noticeable amount having been withdrawn from the shared account.

I talked about this with my therapist as well and asked him how to react if she starts asking questions. His advice was to state that I need to take responsibility and protect the family since she does not want to tell me how much she owes on her CC and now that she opened a second one (I do believe her that she did that solely to get the 18 months interest free on balance transfers, but who knows, maybe Indian boy has a new moped now).

Taking my younger son to the movies soon (oldest does not want to go). I did not mention anything about that to WW. Also told my youngest son that if he needs anything, no matter what, to come talk to me. Oldest will be a bit trickier, he is more attached to mom, but that's OK. Lined up a small opportunity for my oldest to build a custom PC system. He is very good at that and I know he loves doing that.

Yesterday WW cooked dinner. Not sure if it was just to punish me, but it was Indian food. It was darn good, the chickpea fritters with corn are really tasty. I ate it. When she asked me how it is I only said "good"...and then continued on pretending to read a big fat book about USB (that computer connector). I grabbed that at work and it will help to ignore her by faking deep interest in this technology.

Started reading "The man's guide to women" by Gottman...and also got "Divorce Busting". Still waiting for "Seven Principles To Make Marriage Work" and have yet to read "Mating in captivity". Since the evenings are lonely I have plenty of time.

What else? Had fun watching the soccer game today. Borussia won 2-0 against Augsburg and while watching I was chatting with a new friend that I met at a coworkers bday party a week ago. He happens to be a big Borussia fan as well.
Also offered my son a few bucks to vacuum the entire place. I know, he should do that without being paid, but they never got any spending money and a few bucks won't make a difference. Also bought both sons their favorite snacks. I don't want to overload them with stuff and nice things, but I also don't want them to sit on ass all day long playing Minecraft.

Wow....what a week! At least I am moving now and got my head adjusted. Still hate all of it, every thing about it, but I will do anything to move forward. That includes to hit the gym on my free nights, fairly easy way to make myself scarce and it will do wonders to my pot belly.

Lastly, thank you everyone who rushed in with best intentions and tons of advice. It was info overload at times, but I truly and deeply appreciate it. Thanks for having patience with me. OK, I stop before I start crying.....

[DaveK]

Movie time was great, my son had fun. He asked me if I have a job for him, so I told him to vacuum the place for 5$. Continue to ignore WW and respond only with the shortest possible answer when she asks me directly. Still feels highly uncomfortable.
Started reading "A man's guide to women", a book my therapist recommended. When I read the first chapter about attunement and active listening to generate trustworthiness I was confused. Here I get advice to detach and go dark, there I am told to give my undivided attention to generate trustworthiness. Now that I think about it more it seems both are right and not mutually exclusive. Attunement is key when there is a relationship, when she is looking at me and not at someone else.
Also read the introduction of "Divorce Busting". I agree that in my case divorce is not the solution. I am convinced that with some help we can work on the problems that soured the relationship, but for that the relationship needs to exist again at some level. It's been only a few days since changing course, so I don't think that things work that quickly. I have to have patience, lots of it.

Feeling rather empty right now, scared, and like throwing up.

[ovrrnbw]

When you interact with her, you should give her you attention. It would be rude not to when someone is speaking. But you shouldn't be gushing on her or chasing her around trying to win her back and the interactions probably need to be brief.

Don't be too scared. If you need to read, go read my sitch from day one to today. It gets better. Emotions come and go, once you go through this a few times you'll expect them to fade when things are feeling rough. And you learn how to deal with it.