The Third Wish

[doodler]

...was just early 18th century...

Make that 19th century. The gasoline fumes made me delirious.

[Dawn70]

Y'all have inspired me with your talk of bath bombs. To celebrate our anniversary and my birthday, Sparky and I have an appointment this weekend at one of the old bathhouses in Hot Springs to take a thermal aromatherapy bath. I almost literally laughed out loud when the lady told me one of the choices was lavender. LOL I opted for eucalyptus. We live near Hot Springs, which is known for its thermal waters (hence the city's name) and the bathhouses offer all sorts of spa services. I thought it would be fun and something different and Sparky said he's all in since he has a very physical job and his muscles ache a lot. It is like hanging out in a hot tub. I'll make sure he takes a wire brush, though, doodler, just to keep with your scrubbing in mineral spirits/gasoline with a wire brush story.

[doodler]

... to take a thermal aromatherapy bath.

Dawn,

We're not that highfalutin in these parts. Around here we call it f@rting in the tub.

[AndrewP]

Snowed in today. Still working (more or less). When I got up this morning all of the roads in the county were closed. S24 also gets a snow day too. We joked that while I can work from home, it's a bit hard for him to. He was supposed to be working on a radon remediation job the next town over.

Kind of bored - going with the flow this morning.

One weird / funny thing to mention. For some reason last night I showed S24 my OLD profile on POF and he browsed through it. He did rib me when after he asked what age range I had in that my 40-60 was a bit skewed to younger people. That led in to a conversation about how I had been warned very strongly about young single mothers early on and he agreed that he could see how they could be interested in a situation where they essentially jump out of the "hamburger and apartment" years right in to something that would be fairly comfortable. We both agreed that FSL falls in to that demographic even though personally I think that she wouldn't be interested in a guy just for the material comforts she would get. He jokingly cautioned me that I would need to be really careful that if I dated young that they didn't bump me off for my pension and the insurance money. I let slip a comment that I had been worried before because his mother would have ended up with over half a million - he didn't react. The talk of OLD then led in to me telling him about a podcast I heard a while ago called Dirty John that has certainly added a layer of caution to my approach to on line dating. I highly recommend it to any true crime fans out there - which I'm not but both kids and their mother are.

I did show him the profile of one of the women that I am considering reaching out to and had an odd reaction when I mentioned that one thing that bothered me is that she could be CL's twin sister. I do believe that he has no idea what CL looks like although he's heard me talk about her a fair bit and it's easy to find out. This leads me to believe that he really has had no interest in stalking my social media nor interactions with others. Which is undoubtedly fine and healthy. It does also increase the odds that when he does check that it's for the benefit of his mother.

I suppose I could be curious on if he's updated his mother on my dating profile. I will admit that one of the reasons I've kept logged in was to see if my ex shows up there. Which she hasn't. Way back I was watching in hopes that she and her fella had broken up.

I am getting closer I think to pulling the trigger on starting the OLD adventure - perhaps as early as this weekend. And again, perhaps not.

I also stumbled on a job opening the next town over that after thinking it over I've applied to it. It's an IT manager position at the local casino. Not the industry I am familiar with and the role is much more technical than what I do but what the heck. It's close enough that I could get one of those scooters I've been coveting to commute with and the money and benefits should be decent. The fact that my gambling is limited to the occasional lottery ticket (need to check mine from last week) and the times I've gone through a casino, I have no interest in playing should be a positive.

I did get some more indications this morning that my current role is very likely stable through 2019 which is a good thing as well. I've got an ex-wife and son to support after-all.

Just had a weird interaction with S24. He decided this morning to cut his own hair (yes - what could possibly go wrong) and needed some help with the back. He uses the clippers we got when he was young. One of his challenges is that it seems that we don't own a hand-mirror so was using his phone. He commented "we used to have a hand mirror" to which I replied "we used to have a lot of things". He just sort of shrugged.

I really think some times that he's generally oblivious to his mother's life and doesn't really care about what she's up to or such. I certainly don't get the feeling that he's angry with her like I do with D26. He generally though also doesn't seem to look to her for any of the sort of "parenting". That one trip to the hospital last fall and perhaps going clothes shopping once or twice are perhaps the only times that I think he's reached out to her for anything.

Well - lunch time. Time to go and clean the snow out of my drive. The snowing appears to be over and it's supposed to warm up and rain early next week. Sheesh - can't the weather make up it's mind?

[Dawn70]

Oh Andrew...I want to hug you and smack you all at the same time. But first, let me say, I watched a special on, I think Bravo, that was based on the Dirty John thing...OMG....that dude was CRAZY! It was so good. Then I saw the real lady on an episode of Dr. Phil a few weeks after I finished watching the mini-series. She was very interesting. Seemed very normal.

Now to the smacking part. I hope, pray, long for the day when you just quit worrying and mind reading about XW. I know you still are hung up there and I get it. Well, no, actually, I don't entirely get it, but it is what it is. I said it before and I'll say it again....WHO CARES if S24 checks your social media to report to her. That is on her if she has him do that and it's pretty shady, too, I might add, but I digress.

As far as your "weird" interaction with S24....he's a GROWN man. The parenting relationship between you and he and the one between he and his mother is likely changing as he is an adult now. I'm sure he doesn't really spend a lot of time worrying about what his mother does. Did you, at 24? Probably not. Most 24 year olds, at least in our time of being in that age range didn't still live at home with one of their parents, so likely gave little thought to the ins and outs of their parents daily lives. I lived 200 miles from my parents when I was 24 so do I know precisely what they were doing at any given moment? Nope. I've said before that I never had children of my own, so I might feel differently if I had, but I had a hand in raising 3 lovely young women who are all now past the age of 24. Sometimes, it seems from your postings, that you still not only treat S24 like a teenager, but you still see him that way as well. You "speak" of him as though he is much younger than he really is. I think someone else pointed this out before, but at his age, one might wonder what his motivation to "grow up" is if he has someone who in essence provides shelter and cooks for him and drives him around. There are days that if I could get that gig, I'd sign up with no question and I'm well beyond 24. I know he's your child and you won't ever stop worrying about him. But you do need to stop worrying about his interactions with his mom and your perception of what is going on in those interactions. He's plenty old enough to deal with that on his own. And, while you both are responsible for your son's existence, as he is an adult, there is not much reason for the two of you to collaborate on much of anything related to him anymore. So, again, I implore you to LET. IT. GO!

[Dawn70]

... to take a thermal aromatherapy bath.

Dawn,

We're not that highfalutin in these parts. Around here we call it f@rting in the tub.

I'm not usually that high falutin' either, but hey, when in Rome.....;)

If he f@rts in the tub, though, I'm getting out. LOL

[AndrewP]

Oh Andrew...I want to hug you and smack you all at the same time.

Awe - thanks Dawn. Once a Mom - always a Mom.

Just made a fresh pot of tea and having some duck stew for my lunch after cleaning the driveway out. The roads are still officially closed around here.

I do know that I have quite a few challenges in parenting my son "properly" and yes (dodges smack) wish that his mother helped out with that more.

When the kids were little I did all the "usual" sort of Dad things. Changed diapers, read bedtime stories, told long rambly stories about history and their ancestors. Had them help me in the workshop and with home repairs. Worked on my repertoire of Dad jokes (What's long brown and sticky? .... A stick). I would take them to events, cheer at ball / soccer / hockey games etc. But the reality is that the bulk of the actual parenting was done by their mother. They'd come to me when their bicycle broke. To their mother when they stubbed a toe. We were - as far as I know - a "normal" family and looked at parenting as a team exercise. I was the more consistent and reliable part of the team. I would joke with them that if they wanted something done well be it sewing a torn seam or making a cake that they should ask their mother. If they wanted it "done" they should ask me.

Now I'm trying to do this on my own. Fortunately they don't require much actual "parenting". And yes - many people have commented on how good S24 has it and how I seem to coddle him. CL once remarked that I was turning him in to a giant man-baby. Like I've told you and I told her - "I'll stop you when you're wrong". I know that while I may be doing an adequate job as a Dad that I'm not perfect and am in some ways letting my son down. And yes - this weighs on me quite a bit. S24 himself openly admits that he's got a pretty sweet deal going on here. And probably better than he would have if he lived with his mother - which I've hinted at from time to time as something for him to consider.

I think that the only real experts on parenting are people who don't have kids or grandparents.

It's easy to think for example "just tell him that he needs to get his driver's license". He knows this. He's heard it from me. Has he done anything about it? No. What can I actually do about it? Doodly squat.

It's like when his mother was having her affair - and yes - he's a lot like his mother. I recall people saying that I needed to cut my wife off from family finances if she refused to stop her affair. And yeah - I was pretty helpless back then too.

Sorry that this has gotten longer and a bit off track from the beginning. But - I'm doing the best I can with the tools that I've got. I'm just missing probably more than half of the contents of the tool chest. I know that S24 loves and yes, does respect me. I also know that he's an adult and not really subject to my authority.

Thanks for the hug ((Dawn))

[Ginger1]

The question is:

If you are aware that you are coddling your son and he is a 24 year old man child and your own admission are letting him down by doing this........

WHY are you? What is your reasoning behind it? Is it that you have a hard time with tough love? Are you getting a certain degree of satisfaction our of coddling your son?

Think about it.

What you can do about him deciding not to get a DL is to not drive him anywhere.

I remember being 24, buying a house, getting married, having a full time job and going to school. I did need my dad to look to him for advice and guidance (which he is still constantly providing on his own volition). I think your son absolutely need that from you too. The difference is the parenting became guiding me, rather than doing for me. And I absolutely know you would guide your son well. You just have to stop doing for him. Set boundaries, give deadlines and stick to them.

But back to the real question.

Why are you admittedly coddling him?

[AndrewP]

LOL - I rarely drive him anywhere. In the last year and a half he's asked me for a ride perhaps 3 times.

He's low maintenance. I actually "do" very little for him.

I wash the dishes including the ones he dirties because I like having a clean counter. He'd be happy to let them pile up until he runs out. I make Sunday supper for both of us because I like to. I clean the house other than his room because I like having a clean house. I buy the groceries because I like to eat.

There is an additional amount of these things to do because there are two of us but it's pretty minimal.

I just tried to think of anything I do for him that he should do for himself and can't. He does his own laundry. 90% of his own cooking. He buys his own clothes.

Why are you admittedly coddling him?

At 24 I had been on my own for about 6 years and had just started dating this cute girl who had big boobs and was love-bombing me in to submission. So I get that there is an expectation that in our culture - as much as New Jersey and Ontario can have the same culture - that young people get independent after their teen years and never look back.

Where I am, we are, and to a degree I believe he is - is that we all want him to be more than he is. We all (including him) want him to be fully independent, building his own life. Maybe meet a nice girl, settle down and figure out how to make grandchildren.

I'm coddling him by enabling him to just cruise along and not do anything about getting to the goals he, I, presumably his mother and everyone else has for him.

It's easy to suggest Set boundaries, give deadlines and stick to them. but then what happens when those deadlines go whooshing by? When my wishes and priorities aren't his? Do I have a tantrum? Turn off the heat to his room? Stop cooking with cheese?

I know in talking to friends that these are struggles that a lot of parents of young adults seem to be facing these days. And it's a struggle that a lot of young adults have. After I dropped out of university I hustled and got a job in my field of study and grew my career. After he dropped out of university he chose to take a low level manual labourer job because that was the job he could get. Unlike many of his compatriots who go back and take course after course racking up student debt and still end up in low level jobs, he chose not to.

The whole attitude that many of us who are of an age - and yes G - you are a "lot" younger than me - of going out, working hard and hustling is seemingly missing from many young people who are content to just get by.

[Dawn70]

I agree with much of what you said and much of what G said. First and foremost, I do NOT think you are a bad dad in any stretch of the imagination. You clearly love both of your kids and want what is best for them and work to take great care of them. Your D seems to be far more independent than your S and she is only 2 years older.

I am by no means a parenting expert. Not even close. But, I did manage to raise 3 teenage daughters to adulthood and honestly, one of mine, much like your son, displays absolutely zero ambition to move ahead. She seems content to go with the flow. It is like beating my head against the wall to make her see that even dead fish "go with the flow". I desperately want her to want more for herself, but she has too much of her "real" mom in her...the woman who gave birth to her. My middle daughter is a lovely, capable young woman, but to be frank, she's a user and a manipulator. If she can figure out how to get someone to do it for her, she'll work harder to do that than she would have to actually work to do whatever it is she's trying to get out of.

This is going to be a long story, but bare with me because I do have a point. When middle daughter was a senior in high school, she lived with her dad and me full time because she and her mom had had a huge blow-out and were not speaking. She was telling her dad and me she was going to college and all this stuff, then when it was nearing the end of her senior year and we were trying to get her to apply for scholarships and colleges and such, she started back-pedaling on us. Then she started saying she wanted to go to cosmetology school, which we again were supportive of and urged her to fill out financial aid and admissions applications. When we were supportive of that, she back-pedaled on that too. We finally sat her down and told her what was what: we told her that if she wanted to go to any type of school, college, 2 year junior college, trade school, whatever, she was welcome to live in our house and continue to live under the same circumstances that she lived under when she was in high school. We provided for basic needs, she paid her monthly texting bill (when texting charges were not included in the bill, she paid $20 a month for unlimited texting) and her car insurance, her gas and her "fun" money. We would provide housing, food, utilities, car maintenance and help her as best we could with school necessities like books and supplies. She would be expected to keep her room clean, help with household chores and do her own laundry, just as she'd done in high school. On the other hand, if she chose not to further her education in any way and to work instead, we would require her to work full-time. We didn't care if she had one full-time job or 3 part-time jobs, but she would work 40 hours per week. If she were working, she would still be held to the same standards as before, as far as helping with chores, keeping her room clean, doing her own laundry and paying for the things we had always required her to pay for. In addition, we told her if she chose the work route, we would be charging her room and board. We also explained in depth that it would be a minimal amount based on her salary (we were thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 a month) and that money would be placed in a joint savings account each month that had one of our names and her name on it. When she was ready to move out, we told her we would remove our name from the account and the money would be hers to get started in her own place or do whatever she wanted to do with, because it was her money. Our only real stipulation on that money was that as long as she was living with us, she could look at the account but she was not allowed to withdraw any money for any reason without clearing it with us first. And, we would put the entire amount she gave us each month into the account so that we weren't holding onto "her" money. We were just basically forcing her to save money to get a little nest egg started. While that seemed more than fair to us, it turned into the most over-dramatic fit I've ever seen thrown in my life and she decided that she was going to move in with her mom for the summer to "work on their relationship". Now, I knew and she knew that was her little manipulative way of getting her dad to let her do it without b!tching too much about it because he was big on all that psychology stuff and she played him big time. But, she was 18, so what could we really do when she said, hey, I'm going to mom's. So, despite the fact that her mother had already abandoned her once, she moved to live with her mom and shortly after she got there, her mom decided to up and move to Texas, leaving daughter there and creating more drama because then daughter, being stubborn and strong-willed, wasn't about to come back to us when we hadn't buckled and given her her way about either going to school or working and paying room and board. Oh and we were HORRIBLE parents, according to her. Trying to ruin her life. The whole 9 yards. It was all very dramatic. So, she stayed there, in a house that her step-father owned while her mother and step-father moved to Texas. And, because she was working some little nothing job where she earned minimum wage, she couldn't afford to pay the house payment and all the utilities, like step-dad wanted her to, so she and mom cooked up a scheme where mom would keep paying all the bills and STOP paying step-dad's bills for his motorcycle and his RV to cover for middle daughter and step-dad would never know because he let mom handle all the bills and never questioned her about anything. That all worked really well to daughter's advantage until the repo man showed up for the motorcycle and the RV and step-dad blew a gasket. (Totally understandable!) About that same time, daughter started dating her now husband, who was raised by a woman who did EVERYTHING for him so that she could basically keep him under her thumb and since they met and started dating, they have spent the last almost 10 years living off his parents and her mom and step-dad. They have now moved back to step-dad's house and are supposedly at least making the house payment, but since her husband gets fired about as often as most of us change our underwear, I figure that mom is still padding the books in her own house to allow daughter to live in step-dad's house. It is all a nasty mess. My daughter, meanwhile, has NEVER learned the value of money. When they get a tax refund each year (and they get a huge one because they have 2 kids and she doesn't work and he doesn't earn f*ck-all), they blow it on matching Justin cowboy boots for the family and sh!t like that then whine around about how they don't have any money. It is so exhausting. So, so exhausting to deal with all the time. My daughter will be 28 years old this year and this is her existence.

I tell you that long, drawn out, babbling story to say this. Yes, I do think that many young people today are content with "just getting by" while when we were that age, we were humping it. I was working my first full-time professional teaching job right out of college when I was 24 and lived by myself because I could afford to live without a roommate and I paid my own bills. I don't think kids wanting to live that way necessarily has anything to do with their raising so much as societal norms. My daughters were all raised with a strong work ethic, at least on the side of me and their dad (not so much their mother, who is the afore-mentioned user). My other 2 daughters work full-time jobs and have husbands who also work full-time jobs that they have all held for a good period of time. They own houses that THEY bought, not houses that were given to them. I suspect your son was raised to have a good work ethic and to be independent as well, but like my middle daughter has chosen a different way. If I were to open my house right now and tell middle daughter to pack up and come on, they'd be there in no time, sponging off me. That's just who she is.

I get that setting boundaries is hard, but I think you could figure out a creative way to set some. Maybe instead of boundaries, at least help S24 set some goals about his future. And, ok, so you don't give him rides much and he does his own laundry. I also get cooking the Sunday dinner. I like to cook for my family too and I would do the same in your situation, but you can also put your foot down and tell him either clean up after himself or use paper products that he has to purchase himself because you don't want dirty dishes all over your kitchen and you are not responsible for washing what he dirtied. And, this is a totally rhetorical question, so you don't even have to answer, but at least just think about it. You admitted to coddling him and saying you can't set boundaries. Why are you not at least charging him some sort of room and board, even if it is minimal. Do what we were going to do and put it aside for him to have when he does move out. Tell him on the front end that is what you are going to do. Obviously he paid off his student loans, so he has some semblance of knowledge of the value of money, so help him start to build a nest egg and set attainable goals that will get him independent faster.