Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 34
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 34
My H left for a month in 2014 five months after BD#1. When he came back, he declared himself better and in love with me again. Any attempts by me to talk about what had happened fell flat... he said he had been in a fog, was embarrassed and just wanted to forget about it. I was so grateful to have him home, I just took his word for it and we picked up life where we had left off. A month and a half later, he contracted Shingles and that was the beginning of his four years of fake medical treatments (mixed in with some real treatment but who knows how many...he will never tell me, thats for sure) and then BD#2. I regret taking him back that easily. He hadnt done the work and neither had I. frown


Me 53
H 48
B/G Twins 13
SD 21
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
I would like to add a few things. Most LBS really believe they are the priority in piecing, but that's not the case and shouldn't be any person's attitude when trying to strengthen a M. It's true that a WS or WAS has done a lot of damage and hurting, but they went Wayward or Walked away for a reason and those problems has to be addressed just as much as the A.

There's is no one script that fit piecing, but these are great guidelines that I wish I had when my W and I decided to work on our M.

I would flood my W with my emotions and really didn't care how it made her feel. I became so weak and unattractive after DBing. My emotions were all over the place and they were dam near uncontrollable. I had pushed so much down to DB, that after we reconciled I couldn't control all the questions and hurt I felt.

I was on a roller coaster for real. And my W was too blame. That's how I felt but I was wrong. I control my actions and decisions and that took me a long time to understand. My W decided to stay in the M, because of my DBing, the key word was she "decided", and it takes a lot of courage and self reflection for a WAS or WS to even decide to come back to a place where they know they have caused so much pain. And will have to take an honest look at the person they hurt or people and deal with a lot of dumping on them.

As a LBS the attention and focus needs to be on your on healing and less on trying to fix and punish your S. The more LBS focus on their own healing the more the WS will feel open and relaxed to keep moving forward with the M.

Another thing that most men need to focus on is being intimate, not having sex but getting to the darkest, deepest depths of your S soul. Most women already know what intimacy really mean. Most men have a hard time understanding what it really means. My W loves it when I taste her food as soon as it comes off the stove or out the oven. She loves to tell me about her lists (she loves making list). I use to blow her list off. But she puts a lot of work into her cooking and list, so now I know that listening to her go down every item and I say yay or nay is important to her. ( She feels like I get her and have prioritized her). In turn she does the same for me. And I get some kisses and on occasion when the boys are sleep early I get some late night action.

Love languages are a must and to properly piece the LL must be known. If you have to ask, ask your S what their LL are. Without knowing the LL you will continue to love your S in your LL and it will become a very frustrating period. Also LBS must know their own LL, communicate your LL to your S and when they aren't meeting them, give them a gentle reminder. Remind them a 1000 times if you have too, if your S is showing progress that's what really matters.

LBS will make mistakes and do things wrong while piecing, my W calls me on my Sh!t all the time, I have continued to work on and learn to accept her critiques, most of the time she is really trying to support me and help me become better. Before I would just get really defensive. Now we listen and are patient and slow in our response, not all the time, but we working on it.

Peicing is a whole new relationship and beginnings and must be treated as such. Both parties have a lot of blame to fling around, but that won't help, so move forward with love, care and empathy. A M is an institution of constant learning, if ever you feel you have mastered you M, you need to reevaluate and refocus, because there's no such thing, but there is a harmonious place in love.

Onward and forward.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
sandi2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Thank you all for your comments. It keeps this thread alive. Sometimes I don't know what to say when a poster expresses their pain and a sense of hopelessness. Not every M can be saved, even if it goes through the piecing stage. My heart is full of empathy for each of you. When I came to the board in 2007, LBS's were the ones who taught me, and helped me find my way. I'll never forget it, and never stop caring about you who still suffer from the damage your spouse caused.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 469
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 469
This thread is crazy helpful. Thank you everyone.

I'm only a month into dating my XW, and I can tell you that this is hard work.

joejoe1 touched on something I have found extremely helpful, which is that the LBS is no longer going to be in DB mode when trying to reconcile. In fact a lot of DB stuff can be harmful at this point. The only thing that should stay exactly the same during R from the DB stage is probably the 180s that were made. They need to stay. Everything else needs to be either dropped or modified, or it will cause issues.

Another very helpful point joejoe brought up was that you and your WS are now healing. The LBS may have done a lot of healing and strengthening from the standpoint of the D, but probably not enough in terms of the resentment they feel. Likewise, the WS is dealing with the fact that they shot themselves in the head and have nobody to blame anymore except themselves. When they were in the "fog" they blamed the LBS. Now that the fog lifted it's more clear to them that THEY did this to their family.

If the WS/WAS is truly repentant, the karma guilt bus is already on top of them and crushing them every day. It is NOT your job as the LBS to be driving that bus. Punishing them is counterproductive, and if your spouse really is remorseful then they are living each day under a cloud of constant guilt. It is very easy to trigger the guilt if they are remorseful and they take responsibility for their actions.

It's up to the LBS to support them and help them. NOT coddle or take care of them with NGS tendencies, but to support them along their journey from a place of loving strength that can be respected by the WS.

Last edited by Joe2017; 01/15/19 05:12 PM.

Save yourself. Nobody is coming!
BD:11/2017
Filed:12/2017
Final: 2/2018
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
sandi2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote
Most LBS really believe they are the priority in piecing, but that's not the case and shouldn't be any person's attitude when trying to strengthen a M. It's true that a WS or WAS has done a lot of damage and hurting, but they went Wayward or Walked away for a reason and those problems has to be addressed just as much as the A.


That's a very good point, JoeJoe.

Each spouse has their own separate issues to work out, plus repairing the MR. If the original problems are not addressed, there is a risk of repeating the same experience. I feel many couples are not able to piece their MR, without addressing their previous and current problems under the guidance of a professional therapist.

Quote
There's is no one script that fit piecing, but these are great guidelines that I wish I had when my W and I decided to work on our M.


Thank you. Yes, there are so many variables it's impossible to give one blueprint to fit everyone. And, as I often say, people need to keep a balanced mind when reading any guidelines.

Quote
I would flood my W with my emotions and really didn't care how it made her feel. I became so weak and unattractive after DBing. My emotions were all over the place and they were dam near uncontrollable. I had pushed so much down to DB, that after we reconciled I couldn't control all the questions and hurt I felt.


I'm sure every LBS here can understand what you are describing. I will just add that there are 2 people who are in a vulnerable place when they start piecing. I can understand how the WS may be seen as the villain.

For years I have read how the WS should answer all questions the LBS may have, and I've even said it myself. At the same time, I caution the LBS about knowing every detail of an PA. Once they have that picture in their head, or they know intimate details, it is hard to erase the image. So, think before you ask, if you really must know every little detail, or if it is better not to know. I don't mean you sweep things under the rug, but you do you really have to know which sex positions were used? Will your mind flood with those images the next time you and your spouse have sex? This is what I mean about details. That's something every individual has to decide.

Quote
I was on a roller coaster for real. And my W was too blame. That's how I felt but I was wrong. I control my actions and decisions and that took me a long time to understand. My W decided to stay in the M, because of my DBing, the key word was she "decided", and it takes a lot of courage and self reflection for a WAS or WS to even decide to come back to a place where they know they have caused so much pain. And will have to take an honest look at the person they hurt or people and deal with a lot of dumping on them.


I appreciate you saying this, b/c I find many LBS's want their WS to feel a certain way before reconciling and entering into piecing. I understand, however, the WS's feelings are in a mess! It is the decision to do the right thing that counts. It's the commitment to do the work to save the M that should determine if the couple reconciles and enters into piecing. The LBS may be on a roller coaster, but the WS is usually on a downward spiral (depending on the sitch). Th WS has to go through emotional things the LBS doesn't.....and vise versa. I don't say that as making an excuse, or giving the WS leeway. I'm just tying to explain that both spouses have a lot to process. Sometimes the LBS has processed a lot before ever reconciling, and sometimes not. Like I said, too many variables. The WS must take responsibility for what they did, and not blame the spouse for their actions. The WS may tolerate the outpouring of the LBS's emotions......to a point. However, if the LBS continues to use the WS as an emotional punching bag, the M might end before it ever pieces........depending on the WS. Here again, is why MC/family therapy is needed to guide the couple when healing from an affair.

Quote
As a LBS the attention and focus needs to be on your on healing and less on trying to fix and punish your S. The more LBS focus on their own healing the more the WS will feel open and relaxed to keep moving forward with the M.


Yes, the LBS who continues to have the need to punish, should address it with a therapist. And, it's not about sukking it up to protect the feelings of the WS. That's not what I'm saying. It's about not healing and growing as an individual and a couple as long as long as there is anger being directed toward the other spouse. Does the LBS have reason to be angry? Of course, but s/he needs to find a healthy outlet and/or get help in healing, rather than punishing the WS. The goal is to heal individually, and heal the MR.

A lot of LBS's are so focused on just getting their WS back, that they fail to deal with the emotional stages that usually come at some point. Therefore, as soon as they reconcile, the LBS begins to experience these stages.......and in some cases, they risk becoming the LBS.

Quote
Another thing that most men need to focus on is being intimate, not having sex but getting to the darkest, deepest depths of your S soul. Most women already know what intimacy really mean. Most men have a hard time understanding what it really means. My W loves it when I taste her food as soon as it comes off the stove or out the oven. She loves to tell me about her lists (she loves making list). I use to blow her list off. But she puts a lot of work into her cooking and list, so now I know that listening to her go down every item and I say yay or nay is important to her. ( She feels like I get her and have prioritized her). In turn she does the same for me. And I get some kisses and on occasion when the boys are sleep early I get some late night action.


That's a sign of real progress!

Quote
LBS will make mistakes and do things wrong while piecing, my W calls me on my Sh!t all the time, I have continued to work on and learn to accept her critiques, most of the time she is really trying to support me and help me become better. Before I would just get really defensive. Now we listen and are patient and slow in our response, not all the time, but we working on it.


That's not all. The WS will make mistakes and slip into old habits (like showing disrespect). It's up to the LBS to call her/him out. In fact, if the LBS doesn't hold the WS's feet to the fire on showing respect, things will slide backwards instead of forwards. Old behavior patterns are hard to break, but not impossible.

Quote
Peicing is a whole new relationship and beginnings and must be treated as such. Both parties have a lot of blame to fling around, but that won't help, so move forward with love, care and empathy. A M is an institution of constant learning, if ever you feel you have mastered you M, you need to reevaluate and refocus, because there's no such thing, but there is a harmonious place in love.


It's a new relationship, but with some disadvantage. It has problems the previous relationship caused. I hope that doesn't sound too pessimistic. I'm just being real, folks. Piecing is hard for a reason. Some couples may experience a honeymoon period, but eventually, you have to deal with real life.

Thanks for your post, JoeJoe. It should be very informative and encouraging for everyone.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,165
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,165
Thank you for starting this thread, Sandi! I apologize for my typos/errors. I did not edit my list before posting. I'm going to think about what I might add to it in the next few weeks. I also appreciate the responses thus far.

Something has come up for me before while reading threads and again while reading this thread. Being a former LBS, I can really relate to what JujuB says. Sandi and Neffer have both talked about grieving the end of the A and having withdrawals from the X AP. While I know this may be true for many WS, it's still such a gut punch to think about in my sitch. If you have read my sitch, perhaps you can understand why.

We rarely talk about XOW anymore, but I can do so now without the same flood of emotions I had for years. Last night I asked my H to be honest with me and tell me about what he went through after leaving her and coming back to me. His response was interesting and I did not get the sense he did miss her or have withdrawals. What he described to me was a tremendous relief to have finally made the right choice and to have let go of what he knew was a fantasy. He also described guilt for the additional hurt he caused her, after hurting so many people already.

I was thinking it might help if I included more here from his perspective, if he is open to that. I do think there are differences between the former WW and the WH in piecing, but also individual variations between all of our sitches. In the case of my H, he went out on his own, left the family, and really tried the relationship on with her. This "reality" caused him to start seeing things very differently, than when in the secret EA he had with her while still being in the M. Since piecing, his struggles have been less about missing her or wanting her back and more about living with the guilt and regret of his previous choices. He had also struggled a lot with being patient with my anger and emotions, while simultaneously reforming his Nice Guy traits, some of which led to our initial problems.

Blu


Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon. Nelson Mandela
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
sandi2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Thanks for your input, Blu.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,384
Likes: 20
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,384
Likes: 20
Originally Posted by sandi2
Bump

I just added the link for this thread into the first post of your series of threads, that has a link in every one of my welcome posts.


Me-68, D35,S34
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,165
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,165
I haven't specifically asked my H about his perspective on piecing, in terms of what he could contribute, because for whatever reason I feel that this is my private place. When we first come here as Newcomers we are advised to keep this site, and the book, to ourselves and not tell our S. He did find the site while we were going through some troubles a year ago, at which point I asked him to please respect my privacy, to which he said he would. So now it doesn't feel right for me to ask for his contributions. So perhaps I will add his perspective as I understand it. And a couple things came to mind today.

(from my response to Joe2017 today) Our perspectives of how many assaults he made on the M are quite different. I, the former LBS, viewed my H as killing our M with a 1000 cuts -- every lie, deception, act of selfishness and hurt he caused -- and each one stung as much as the next. He (former WH) does not see it that way! Yes, he feels remorse for each cut, but he did not see each as it's own intentional assault. He feels that this was one giant mistake and that these are all fragments of that, as they were all interconnected. You cannot have an A without lies and you cannot lie without hiding things and so on and so forth. He had dug himself deep into a hole with no one way out that felt safe or even possible.

I think this is important in piecing because both people should acknowledge the other's different perspective. For the former wayward, they must see that every cut caused additional pain. And when piecing starts, the triggers of each cut will come up, and sometimes multiple times. I think it best for him/her to simply listen, validate and even offer an apology. This is of course assuming that you have been approached with respect. On the flip side, it is equally important for the former LBS to realize that each cut was not an intentional assault on them or on the M. When feeling that one is a victim, it can be very hard not to see that your S was not hurting you intentionally, but more so they were on their own path. There were many lies and betrayals that accompanied my Hs A and each one hurt as it's own. I also am beginning to understand how in his eyes it was just one giant, messy mistake and most days he felt stuck and didn't even know how to fix it.

Blu


Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon. Nelson Mandela
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 34
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 34
Originally Posted by BluWave
He had dug himself deep into a hole with no one way out that felt safe or even possible.


Reading about your H's thoughts when he was away reminded me a lot of my H. That is exactly what he said to me at the beginning when he was thinking about coming home... that he loved me...that he was scared that he had dug himself a hole that was too deep to climb out of...that he was more sorry than he could possibly say...and extremely ashamed... didn't want to face anyone...didn't think he could...and was scared that things would come up daily that resulted in him feeling bad because he wasn't there or did something wrong, etc... A few weeks later, after making the decision to stay gone, he brushed his comments aside and said he was just "trying to fill some holes he knew were there". Didn't really get that explanation but I guess it made sense to him. I don't buy it. I think that it was the first time he looked in the mirror and came to understand what he had done and he was horrified and beyond scared and that it was just too much to face so he had no choice but to keep on digging and try to at least salvage his R with his kids who are thankfully oblivious to the things that he did.


Me 53
H 48
B/G Twins 13
SD 21
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Cadet, job, Virginia 

Link Copied to Clipboard