Figuring Out What Comes Next

[Dawn70]

I’ll admit I was one of the ones who advocated for asking WG early on. I “got it” then and I still get it now because I’m not an idiot. With all due respect, though, Don, you were under a deadline to ask someone and at the time she was your best option based on your own postings of what was happening. Sure, y’all weren’t exclusive, you saw others, she saw others, but when push came to shove and it got to the time you had to name names, who else could you have named? You, understandably had quite the dilemma, not wanting to go alone, yet not wanting to choose someone too early and risk facing the repercussions of that person backing out for whatever reason. Hindsight is 20/20, my friend. It’s easy for all of us to say things in giving advice and all of that but I don’t think anyone, yourself included, could’ve predicted how this whole thing shook out. You were having fun, she was a good option at the time and you made a decision.

I get what LH and J9 are saying about go, hook up, have fun, as they have been saying that all along. I also get what you’re saying about “letting” her go is really your best option. I am pretty sure I’m still in the same camp with Ginger and juju about wondering how fun it can really be at this point, knowing all you know. Granted, you are a single man and maybe she considers herself single too, but it doesn’t really seem as though her new man sees himself as single. You have to do what works best for you and you’ve been dealt a pretty sh!tty hand of cards with this one, but I hope, however it works out, that you come away with some peace and you find a way to enjoy the trip.

[DonH]

Wow Dawn, you're the educator but I'd give you an "A" for that "paper". All pretty much spot on. Thing is, I feared something like this all along. Then, when we hit December, she had her renewed passport, we had luggage tags and boarding passes from the cruise line, I thought it was all in the bag and I was home free. I always wished I could wait until September or even October 15 to give them a name but they were up my arse June 8th when I saw one of the higher ups. I'm lucky I made it to the third week of August. We had plane tickets 5 days later. Had i been given until October I wonder if wild girl would have even accepted?

Which brings up yet another point. A few hours after I asked wild girl to go and she hesitated then accepted, we were out on my deck talking. She asked "what happens if either of us meets someone?" I assumed it was more a question of what if I met someone - would I replace her? My answer was that she's going. I'm not going to replace her. I know how slow I move and not looking for a big R anyhow I was confident in my answer. I asked her what about you. She said she would feel terrible if she left me hanging or backed out - "very, very terrible, I hate to disappoint people." So we both pretty much agreed neither would do that. It was among the things I was going to bring up to her last night. She beat me to it. It very likely is shellfish on her part - she wants to go on a free cruise! But in the end it appears we both kept our word. I assumed otherwise but it looks like my mind reading was wrong.

I wish none of this happened. It won't be like I was hoping back in summer. I have zero doubt if it was not for the cruise I'd never hang out or date or whatever her again. But for the cruise... I'm sure that's what will happen after we get back. Keep in mind I know and will still see her parents and aunt. I'm sure I'll be friendly like I am with other "exes" but that's all.

I knew what I was dealing with early on - or at least suspected it. As KML confirmed, I was never seeing her as a LTR or girlfriend. It always was what it was. Just because I'm not going to marry her does not mean I can't have fun with her and she's A LOT of fun! People love her. She's knows the bands and the music. And the "benefits" were top level. She clearly didn't use me for $$$ nearly always insisting to pay. In fact when I started to tell her why this was such a problem (before she stopped me) I included how I already had to prepay both of our gratuities - one if the few things not covered and she's already insisting on covering any and all of my expenses. Not sure I'll accept but $$$ is not the issue for her. Losing a cruise may well be but not paying her way and mine. She has some redeeming qualities, she's just broken... Badly broken.

[kml]

Well maybe your charity deed on this trip will be to point out to her that if this guy will cheat with her he'll cheat on her. She'll deny it but the seed will be planted in her brain, might save her some grief after.

[AndrewP]

I've kept moderately quiet on this but thought I'd just toss out my opinion.

Yes - there are consequences to your not having a companion on the cruise. Is that a reason to take someone else's girlfriend? Not my call.

I know that here there have been discussions including myself on multi-dating and there are diverse opinions on that. My current opinion is no.

Also, Dawn and I are very much in the "old fashioned" camp where both she and I are uncomfortable with in my own situation of me dating someone who doesn't openly acknowledge me / isn't divorced. So I'm perhaps the Ashley Wilkes here (google may be your friend).

From where I sit - you are OM. If you and WG are happy with that, that's "fine". Is her boyfriend? Personally I can't see myself having intimacy with anyone who I'm not in a committed relationship with. And yes - I'm an old fart despite being a year younger than you.

But our paths have been very different. I got married as a young man - forever I presumed - and spent more than half my life in that paradigm. You got married later, for a shorter period of time and have been single for quite some time. I try not to apply my morals to others.

For me - I would not be dating someone else's girlfriend. Not that they are "property" but because there are norms in our society that I respect.

I'll set down my wiffle bat now.

[DonH]

Well maybe your charity deed on this trip will be to point out to her that if this guy will cheat with her he'll cheat on her.

Already done as we spoke about him and this on the phone. It may sound odd based on how she has been portrayed by me here but she is rather open about most things. She was pretty open about him and it sounded like some of the stories on here. Remember he is getting out of a 14 year LTR for which they just recently started living together. I have no idea where his head is at but this screams of rebound. His recent live-in GF may come back. He may decide it's all been too fast. Who knows? I encouraged her to slow down and keep her eyes open - which I guess if she's going on a cruise with me, that's keeping the brakes on in some respect LOL. I'm sure her and I will talk about it in a few weeks.

Yes - there are consequences to your not having a companion on the cruise. Is that a reason to take someone else's girlfriend?

Well I think that's a bit melodramatic and out of context. You make it sound like I pursued a woman who had been dating a guy seriously for two years and was in a LTR with him and tried to steal her away, when in fact, she was committed to go on this cruise months before they even got together. Their budding R still very, very new. Then again as I've said rationalization is the second strongest human drive so I may be rationalizing this to make it sound better and make myself feel better.

I know that here there have been discussions including myself on multi-dating and there are diverse opinions on that. My current opinion is no.

I think this is something each person has to decide on their own. I'm mostly concerned that everyone knows what's going on so they make an informed decision. Some people can't date more than one person at a time. Some have never had the opportunity to so they have never had the chance. For me, as long as everyone knows I think it's very healthy - especially early on. Dawn dated two guys at once. They both were aware of it. She then got more serious with one. Sleeping with both - yeah that is another notch up the ladder for sure. In my and Wild Girl's case we each knew the other was or could date others. I told Online girl about Wild Girl (in general terms) and told Wild Girl about Online Girl. No one is sneaking around. If any party is not comfortable, they are free to exit the situation. As for me, I've dated three women since this started but have been intimate with only one.

Also, Dawn and I are very much in the "old fashioned" camp where both she and I are uncomfortable with in my own situation of me dating someone who doesn't openly acknowledge me / isn't divorced.

This is much like dating more than one person at a time. I think it's up to each individual to decide. That said, I know I and others have stated that based on what you've told us, we don't believe you have really dated CL. I know you believe you have but let me give you a comparison. Last month I met a very nice lady my exact age for lunch. We met at the restaurant and hugged when we greeted each other. We talked for several hours with her grabbing my hand, arm, etc. to make a point. We laughed and had a great time. When we left there was another warm hug and a small kiss on the lips. THIS WAS NOT A DATE - because she is married. I've known her and her husband for over 25 years and she kisses me and acts like that with me right in front of him. He was thrilled I was willing to go to a "fu fu" restaurant he refuses to visit and even thanked me the next time the three of us were together. Also not long ago I picked a woman up and took her to dinner. We were together for three hours in much the same manner. She is married as well and once again I know her husband. I think the kiss was on the cheek, I really don't remember. Based on you and CL - I'm dating these women, which is clearly not the case. But again, it's not up to me to decide. You think, feel and believe you have dated CL so that's what is important and I will go by that - you have dated CL.

For me - I would not be dating someone else's girlfriend. Not that they are "property" but because there are norms in our society that I respect.

I'm confused as to how you would not date someone else's girlfriend but you will date someone else's wife? CL is still married - correct? She is currently someone else's wife. I would say norms of society would frown on that much more than a brand new boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, but again it's how everyone views it and like I've said, rationalization is such a strong drive.

In the end, I'm totally fine with what I'm doing. If I had pushed, coursed, or even gently nudged Wild Girl to still go, I might feel a bit worse. This was 100% her decision. We are not sneaking around or hiding anything. I'm sure she will post pictures on FB that the new guy will see. That is all between her and him - not me. Just as I was not an other man taking my friends wife to lunch/dinner in that their husbands were very well aware of it, it's the same here - unless more happens. I'm not planning on that but I'd also be lying if I said there was no possibility it could happen over 10 days with lots of alcohol in a semi-romantic setting like this. I'm not going to pursue anything, however, but I see them at least similar. Clearly, having lunch or dinner is worlds apart from an 8 day vacation and sleeping in close quarters - no doubt about it. Oh, and I should also add, I also had actually dated both of those woman much earlier in life. The dinner lady I think was 17 when we "dated" and we've been friends ever since. The lunch lady my age I was intimate with before she was married and her and I too are very good friends to this day. I've not crossed any lines with either of them - ever.

So, right or wrong, I'm totally good with it from a morality standpoint - again as long as everyone knows and agrees as consenting adults. As for how I feel about Wild Girl, that's still a work in progress. My focus was so exclusively on how I assumed she backed out without telling me and all of the ramifications of the "free" cruise and flights going up in smoke and what I might have to endure that I'm only now focusing on how I feel about her. Without a doubt the shine is really gone. I'll make the best of it but it's clearly not going to go like I was hoping 3 or 4 months ago. I'm sure I'll put more words to that as I work through it this week. Like most things in life, I'm learning a lot.

[LH19]

For me - I would not be dating someone else's girlfriend. Not that they are "property" but because there are norms in our society that I respect.

Upper cut by Andrew!

I'm confused as to how you would not date someone else's girlfriend but you will date someone else's wife? CL is still married - correct? She is currently someone else's wife. I would say norms of society would frown on that much more than a brand new boyfriend/girlfriend relationship

DH side steps the uppercut and throws a haymaker. Down goes Andrew! Down goes Andrew!

[TBSakaJ9]

LOL........J9 sitting on the side eating his bowl of popcorn for a change

[DonH]

Well I guess my "15 minutes of fame" is over. I did get a good laugh out of Joseph's comment and still laugh at LH19's every time I read it. I most certainly was not looking to knock anyone out - I just call them as I see them and try to hold everyone, including myself accountable to the truth. It's so amazing how most all of us are able to see other people sitch's so much clearer than our own and tend to rationalize that what we are doing is different than someone else. I guess what LH19 pulled out to highlight was a perfect example of that.

As for me, I feel like I'm back to my, "don't really care, whatever," baseline. Parts of that are good - but I guess the underlying is not the best. I was mainly so focused on the fact that I first thought that someone I had at least some level of trust for would bail on me and not even have the guts to tell me, which then broadened to me feeling like you just can't trust anyone - coupled with the fallout on so many levels... Now that all of that is not the case - and evidently never was - I'm back to facing next week.

Part of me is relieved as there is absolutely zero pressure on me now. That's how it should have been all along, and as much as I would have tried to play it that way, I know there would have been some level of pressure to enjoy my week long "date," and make sure she did too. Now I just can enjoy my week long cruise and Wild Girl is responsible for her own happiness - which is how it should have been all along. But let's be honest, things are different when you are on a date with someone versus like when I took my female friends to lunch or dinner. Part of me is really relieved and happy about it. Another part is disappointed it won't be the vacation I was thinking it would be 4 months ago.

Oddly enough, it's probably the best of both worlds and clearly what I said I wanted when this all started about 11 months ago. I mean, take out all of the hiccups and speed bumps on the way to get here, I'm getting pretty much exactly what I said I wanted all along - just perhaps without the benefits piece. And sadly, that's sort of what I'm back wanting again - talking about life in general here, not just the cruise.

I feel like I'm back to keeping it all at arms length and "safe". At least right now it is. Having "more" might be nice but dang it just doesn't seem worth all of the added angst. I'm clearly looking for a needle in a haystack in the type of woman I'm looking for. I don't doubt there are a few like her out there - but it really is like looking for a zebra in the horse field. I'm really back to not caring again. I can't even bring myself to reach out to online girl or Swedish Goddess. The last contact with each was about a week ago - and no I've not heard from them either so there is that. I"m not sad, I'm not mad, I'm not upset in the least. I'm pretty indifferent other than seeing the past summer with a laser focus for what it was.

I'll be coming up on 14 years since bomb drop this summer. Wow - 14 years! It really probably is time to just accept that what I've had these past years is going to be my life. It just is. Of everyone that was here with me 14 years ago, I don't think anyone would have predicted I'd go 14 years without truly falling in love. I on the other hand did. Perhaps it's self-fulfilling.

On a plus side, my Europe trip is now confirmed. I'll be flying over there in April. As I said - I do not get to - read that as HAVE TO - find a guest to go - it's just me (well and a dozen others). One of the cruise candidates invited me to visit her out west. If it happens at all, that would likely be a Fall trip as Phoenix in the summer.... yeah I don't think so. And the daughter of the lady who hired us for an NYE afternoon event invited me to come ride horses with her. I've not done that in forever and am really excited. Neither woman would qualify as my needle in a haystack girl but both will be fun GAL activities that also might turn into FWB activities. That just seems to be where I am. Neither has dated much if at all in the past three years - in fact I've dated way more than either of them.

And if I sound down or depressed, I've got an infection going on from a tooth that started to abscess. At least I caught it quickly but it's really got me run down and I'm sure that's transferring to my mood. Hey, better this week than next. 9 more days until Wild Girl arrives and vacation begins. I know this will still be a lot of fun - perhaps even more fun than I ever thought. I just know it will be different than I was thinking it would be.

[Ginger1]

You don't sound depressed. Your GAL sounds like lots of fun. Lots of travel! Awesome year coming your way. Sorry about the tooth infection. I have given birth, and I think that pain is worse.

I happen to be super jealous of the fact you will be in the carribean with palm trees, ocean and warmth.

[job]

Don,

You have complained about the censorship of postings quite a few times in the last year not only on your threads, but others. If you are not happy with the "self-empowered no real standard make it up as we go, censorship" then I suggest that you contact the administrators and complain. We hear this language on TV, radio and movies, etc., every day, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to everyone who comes to the Board or hears it in real life.

As a reminder, here is what is posted in the Board Polices:

"The forum Administrators and Moderators have the right to edit, move, censor, delete or otherwise modify any posted message."

We also have the right to request that someone be banned from the Board.

If the forum had more moderators, there would be more editing. When you only have a couple who are volunteering their time to assist the administrators, then there are going to be times when we miss something. We make every attempt to keep the forums clean and respectful for all posters from all walks of life.