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Last edited by Cadet; 12/13/18 08:45 PM. Reason: Links

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi. Couple of Qs. I believe you read my sitch. My WW has had EA since March, PA since August 2018. WW moved upstairs into separate room Sept 24th. From Sept 24th through about two weeks after BD, WW wouldnt call me, talk to me, nothing. WW would hide in her room.

Within the last couple of weeks, due to my detachment, WW has been downstairs more, started cooking family dinners again, tells me i look nice, says good morning and good night. I know these are baby steps from her right?

She has not shown remorse towards me and has only said "sorry". I know she is still speaking with OM but I dont know if she is seeing him. OM lives in another state and she has traveled several times since BD, but she was super paranoid thinking I was having her followed etc. Plus she feared I would tell her job if she went and saw him again, which I still may do, which would end up in her being terminated.

I don't want to be vindictive so I have not done anything like that. I did not tell OMW either.

In between WW being cordial/kind with the above short statements, she keeps finding stupid petty stuff, like something I liked on FB etc and will tell me something like "You are trying to get everyone to hate me" or "See you don't want to fix things".

Unfortunately that came through text and instead of thinking before I reacted I responded stating that no I wasnt trying to get anyone to hate her and that it wasnt up to me to fix this.

Are those considered temp checks?

I got another text last night because WW is out of town and she missed out an important concert for D16. WW said "please record the concert for me so I can watch it"

I did not respond to that. About two hours later WW text me "did S11 go to school today?"

She knows he went to school. I have no idea why she would ask me that. I responded about an hour later to the second text "yes".

I did not respond to the request to record the concert. I did record it and I sent the recordings to D16 and told her she can share them if she wants.

Is it ok if I just ignore texts from WW if they don't have to do with anything urgent related to kids? I don't think asking if S11 went to school is an urgent text. I am trying to keep the responses to only things urgent. Like if the kids have an appointment, or are sick, or scheduling etc.

Also, WW told me she was getting a couple of the kids gifts. I am going to get them separate gifts from me. I am not competing with the WW but I want to get them one nice gift. Is this appropriate? The gifts I get will only be from me. My kids don't believe in Santa.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
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Within the last couple of weeks, due to my detachment, WW has been downstairs more, started cooking family dinners again, tells me i look nice, says good morning and good night. I know these are baby steps from her right?


IMO, they don't count as baby steps, b/c she is still involved with OM and she's not working on the MR. Nothing she does counts as baby steps until she goes NC with OM and wants to reconcile the MR. I know that some newcomers may tell each other these are signs of progress, but it's really not. It is the WW wanting the best of both her worlds. It's cake eating.

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She has not shown remorse towards me and has only said "sorry". I know she is still speaking with OM but I dont know if she is seeing him. OM lives in another state and she has traveled several times since BD, but she was super paranoid thinking I was having her followed etc. Plus she feared I would tell her job if she went and saw him again, which I still may do, which would end up in her being terminated.


This explains another reason she has suddenly engaged in her role in the home. She's playing nice, in hopes to throw you off and so you won't get her fired, etc. You can't fall for it. It's not genuine.

Quote
In between WW being cordial/kind with the above short statements, she keeps finding stupid petty stuff, like something I liked on FB etc and will tell me something like "You are trying to get everyone to hate me" or "See you don't want to fix things".

Unfortunately that came through text and instead of thinking before I reacted I responded stating that no I wasnt trying to get anyone to hate her and that it wasnt up to me to fix this.

Are those considered temp checks?


Yes, and as long as she is doing this stuff, you'll know she is not remorseful nor genuine about reconciling. When she sends texts of this nature.....don't respond. Don't reassure her.

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She knows he went to school. I have no idea why she would ask me that. I responded about an hour later to the second text "yes".


She doesn't really care if he went to school or not. She wants to make you respond to her texts. You handled it well. When you absolutely must respond, use one to three words....or as few as possible. No chit-chat, no niceties, etc.

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Is it ok if I just ignore texts from WW if they don't have to do with anything urgent related to kids? I don't think asking if S11 went to school is an urgent text. I am trying to keep the responses to only things urgent. Like if the kids have an appointment, or are sick, or scheduling etc.


Yes, ignore any texts that have nothing to do with the kids. I don't know why S11 not attending school that day was urgent, but you dealt with it fine. Be aware that she'll catch on fast that you only respond to kid related texts, so she'll use the kids as her "hook" to pull you into texting.

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Also, WW told me she was getting a couple of the kids gifts. I am going to get them separate gifts from me. I am not competing with the WW but I want to get them one nice gift. Is this appropriate? The gifts I get will only be from me. My kids don't believe in Santa.


Sure, you can get your kids a gift from you.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi. Responding to texts quickly is something that I am so used to doing, so I am working very hard on breaking that habit.

I updated my sitch thread with a text I sent last night. I was having a bad dream about my wife being intimate with another man. Its a recurring dream I have had since all of this has happened. When I have bad dreams I get loud and in the past when WW slept with me she would comfort me and wake me up.

WW texted me because she heard me, it was about 3AM. I think she was just tossing and turning and could hear me because she was awake. WW asked me if I was having a bad dream and what about. Again random text. I actually decided to tell her what my dream was about. I probably shouldn't have told her but I didn't pursue or ask for anything. I just told her that I was having a dream about her being intimate with another man and that it was upsetting. WW didn't respond.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
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Sandi,

I've read through a lot of your posts and don't remember coming across your thoughts on this topic unless it was in the beginning when my mind was all over the place and probably wasn't in a position to retain much. If you've touched on this somewhere, if you could point me in the right direction, I'd kindly appreciate it!

What is the WW mindset when their transgressions have "come to light" or there are rumors swirling about their wayward behavior?

The reason I ask is, over the past week or 2, there have been some rumors going around our little town about my W and I's sitch. The rumor is W got caught having an A (which is true even though the details surrounding it, as far as the rumor is concerned, are incorrect). I brought the rumors up to my W last week when someone asked me about them. I figured I'd give her a little heads up that the "cat's out of the bag." Sort of surprising because neither of us have said anything to anybody. But, she's been looking for an apartment, so people are probably putting two and two together.

Last night, W was out for a walk and a vehicle with a couple people in it stopped alongside of her and they were asking her how she was doing with everything and told W they had heard she was living in a different town. W came back home and asked if I had heard anything "about us" or if I had told anybody about our situation.

So, I guess my question is, does this sort of stuff effect a WW at all? I have zero expectations and am focused on continuing to detach and walking in a straight line in the opposite direction of my W, but I'm just curious if this stuff weighs on the wayward mind at all. Thank you!


M: 34 W:34
D:7 D:6 S:3

M: 9.5 years T: 12

OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18
IHS begins
W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18
W files: 12/21/18
D Final: 2/25/19
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What is the WW mindset when their transgressions have "come to light" or there are rumors swirling about their wayward behavior?


There are too many variables to give a pat answer here. If she has gone to lengths to keep her transgressions concealed, then having those transgressions brought to light are some natural consequences I often talk about. I won't say for every WW it's the main ingredient that turns her around, but it might work in chipping away at her fantasy. The more reality that hits her at the same time, the better chance of it crumbling her fantasy.

From what I've observed, it mainly goes one of two ways.

1) She and OM are pushed closer together and take on the attitude of "us against the world". However, a scandal can put pressure on an affair.....especially if OM is a well established business man in the community. If OM is M and has children, he might try to end the A, in order to save his own skin. There is certainly no guarantee.

2) It can be the beginning of her fantasy world crumbling. It depends on how important having a good reputation is to her, and depending on how many enablers run to her rescue.

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I brought the rumors up to my W last week when someone asked me about them. I figured I'd give her a little heads up that the "cat's out of the bag."


I'm curious as to why you decided to give her a "heads up".

Quote
So, I guess my question is, does this sort of stuff effect a WW at all?


It just depends on where she is emotionally/mentally in the affair. At the height of the affair, it probably would not matter in the sense it causes her to change her behavior and want to reconcile her M. It might lead to the OM showing his true colors, or her losing her job, etc. The loses add up, and tear down her fantasy world.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hey Sandi,

I haven't reached out in a bit. My W has a very difficult time communicating with me face to face unless she has been drinking or texting. She shows a lot of emotion about how she has hurt me and wants us to stay together during these times. I have just about dropped the rope on this and am only around because I can't leave due to legalities and am continuing with my life to be the best I can be so I don't think much about it.

I know she is self medicating because she has some other deep set issues she is dealing with in IC but does the WW feel an overwhelming amount of guilt to the point that they cannot communicate about what is happening like in my case or is the desire to communicate to save what is slipping away make it a necessity to talk with her partner to try and R?

She has showed a lot of signs that she is coming around but the only convo has come after a few drinks. I'm not taking the bait of whether it's a legit attempt or a drunken Plan B game.


H-50
W-48
T-19
M -18
S23, S14
BD - 5/9/2018
OM discovered 5/10/2018

In house sep - 8/18/2018
Rope drop 2/15/2019
R'ing since 3/15/2019
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Originally Posted by sandi2
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What is the WW mindset when their transgressions have "come to light" or there are rumors swirling about their wayward behavior?


There are too many variables to give a pat answer here. If she has gone to lengths to keep her transgressions concealed, then having those transgressions brought to light are some natural consequences I often talk about. I won't say for every WW it's the main ingredient that turns her around, but it might work in chipping away at her fantasy. The more reality that hits her at the same time, the better chance of it crumbling her fantasy.

From what I've observed, it mainly goes one of two ways.

1) She and OM are pushed closer together and take on the attitude of "us against the world". However, a scandal can put pressure on an affair.....especially if OM is a well established business man in the community. If OM is M and has children, he might try to end the A, in order to save his own skin. There is certainly no guarantee.

2) It can be the beginning of her fantasy world crumbling. It depends on how important having a good reputation is to her, and depending on how many enablers run to her rescue.
This caught my eye (I'm bored at work right now).

My now ex was horrified at the idea that anyone might know that she was having an affair. I know this from her reaction when I suggested that I would apply for divorce under those grounds. I also live in a small town - village really - and the rumours were certainly flying. The reality was though that most people really didn't care / pay too much attention. OM (presumably) didn't care as he was a widower living in another city. Heck he may very well have been bragging to his friends about this overweight middle-aged woman with anger issues and poor life skills that he "stole" from her poor sap of a husband.

I kept my mouth shut until she was outed some months later well after she had moved out, by one of her new friends. I then had no urge to "protect" her and was then open about the fact that yes, I was living alone and that yes she'd gone chasing after her dreams and his wallet. Even the kids didn't know.

Her reaction has been to pull the rabbit hole in after herself. Even now, well over 3 years out from the start of the affair I still get Christmas cards from her old life friends addressed to Mr & Mrs P that she's left behind. She's been gone 2 1/2 years, we've been actually divorced for nearly a year and even now, she keeps an incredibly low profile going from being active in the community and noisy on social media to essentially being a hermit.

She's lost her home, her reputation, her friends. She rarely sees her children despite S24 living with me a 5 minute drive away. She did go see her D26 this fall for the first time in a few years (with OM) and that was undoubtedly uncomfortable for all. She lost both of her parents within days of each other this past January. OM / current boyfriend I think treats her as a side-piece / casual girlfriend. She lives in her apartment over the liquor store she works at with her incontinent Pomeranian.

She did know that I was willing to take her back even months out and she kept a tight grip on that fact I think. Dragging out the settlement and divorce while still in active pursuit of OM (who while he has some money is no great prize). We had a comfortable middle-class existence including tropical vacations, new cars etc.

I do know that after she left she put out the story that she had only started seeing OM after she left. Her lawyer wasn't happy when I literally laughed at that and my then STBX was so upset she stormed out of the room.

Now she did have some very active enablers. Her wayward brother and sister in particular along with a small number of friends who encouraged her to "be happy". They were very persistent, especially her sister who hates me. As I wrote to her once, she became someone she used to despise. Most of those enablers have seemingly abandoned her as well. I know talking to my daughter she blurted out "but Mom hates Aunt K".

So - in light of the question, I'm not sure how useful my commentary is - but there are a number of paths that can be walked. And there's always farther down that people can fall. I would never have imagined my ex having the stamina to pursue something this long. But as she posted in the summer in one of her very rare FB posts - "I have a lot of people to prove wrong". And having lived with her for nearly 30 years, I know how stubborn she can be.

At this point I really honestly have no insight into my ex's life nor her attitudes. She seems afraid to see me perhaps because I represent Truth. I've seen her burn rubber whenever she spots me (small town living). I'm still single, living my life. I gave up hoping that she'd knock on the door quite some time ago.

If I could summarize this rambling, disorganized post - it's that if she's seen the light, it's the light she wants to see, not the one I'd hoped for.

Would she have changed paths if I'd outed her earlier on? She certainly would have been very angry at me but I think that by the time I found out about her affair - about 8 months after it started - she was committed to that path.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
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But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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Originally Posted by sandi2

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I brought the rumors up to my W last week when someone asked me about them. I figured I'd give her a little heads up that the "cat's out of the bag."


I'm curious as to why you decided to give her a "heads up".


To be honest, I'm not sure.....I suppose if I had to guess it would be because I was hoping it would effect her emotionally at some level. I don't mean, necessarily, that I was expecting that she would all of a sudden have a change of heart, but more so that her transgressions are being talked about and therefore people will now assume it was her dirty deeds that caused this M to be ruined and not me. Maybe a little gratification that she knows that people know....not sure I have a for sure answer I guess!


M: 34 W:34
D:7 D:6 S:3

M: 9.5 years T: 12

OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18
IHS begins
W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18
W files: 12/21/18
D Final: 2/25/19
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 308
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
So - in light of the question, I'm not sure how useful my commentary is - but there are a number of paths that can be walked. And there's always farther down that people can fall. I would never have imagined my ex having the stamina to pursue something this long. But as she posted in the summer in one of her very rare FB posts - "I have a lot of people to prove wrong". And having lived with her for nearly 30 years, I know how stubborn she can be.


Andrew, first off, thank you so much for your insight. It gives a glimpse of just how long it might take for a WW to maybe feel remorse and repent for their actions. Then again, if she's still with OM, that probably won't happen until he's out of the picture.

I think that my W is too stubborn too to every admit she was wrong. Maybe she will surprise me sometime down the road, but I'm not expecting it. She needs to be right and when that is of the utmost importance, it's hard to overcome.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

At this point I really honestly have no insight into my ex's life nor her attitudes. She seems afraid to see me perhaps because I represent Truth. I've seen her burn rubber whenever she spots me (small town living). I'm still single, living my life. I gave up hoping that she'd knock on the door quite some time ago.


So you don't see her at grandkid birthday parties or your kids' birthday parties or anything, huh?

I do wonder if that's why a lot of WW do leave. Or maybe, I should say, I really question whether me representing the truth and representing all of the wrongs my WW has done to me and our family is a big reason why she wants to leave.


M: 34 W:34
D:7 D:6 S:3

M: 9.5 years T: 12

OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18
IHS begins
W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18
W files: 12/21/18
D Final: 2/25/19
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