Husband left for second time - 7

[ovrrnbw]

I'm not sure why you haven't told your family. At this point it may help you feel better to air it out.

As for your husband, he's in lala land still. How are you feeling inside?

Are you getting out with friends at all? I know finding someone to watch your daughter was a big thing, but maybe there's activities she can attend? I dunno, I'm not a parent but I think if there's a will there's a way.

[NicoleR]

Thanks all for your responses. Regarding my family, I'm not close to them. My mother was, and still is, an abusive and unhealthy person to be around. I've had to reduce contact to the bare minimum over the years. My father enables her behavior and is very awkward to be around. My whole family has a rural, small-town mentality where they involve themselves in others' business, gossip, blame, judge, and create a lot of drama. I told them I moved here for work and for my daughter to attend a better school and my husband will move up eventually.

I don't see a good reason to involve my family - they're not people who I can count on for support and in fact they'll make everything worse. It's one of the reasons this is so hard. I lost my husband and I don't have a supportive family either. I feel so sorry for my daughter that it's just her and I. My husband's family cut-off contact and my family isn't healthy to be around. I feel completely devastated that I brought a child into this world without anyone else except me to raise her. If anything happens to me I don't know what will happen to her. I don't believe she'll be loved or well-cared for by my husband. I'm trying to stay healthy and I just wish so badly I could offer my daughter something better.

I see friends often but my daughter is usually part of the meet-ups. I don't really feel a need to have time away from her considering I miss out on most of her life now that I work full-time and she's in school all day. I don't go to bars or drink alcohol so it's not really like there's any nightlife in which I'd like to participate. My daughter and I do a lot of kid-friendly activities together. I want to spend as much time with her as possible while she's so young.

This week my husband called me a lot while I was at work. He wanted to know if he should fly here this weekend. He kept complaining how he's tired and has a headache and this-and-that. Yet he felt he should come to see our daughter and he was thinking of taking her somewhere about five hours away. I asked if he planned to take her alone and he said "no, you can come" in a stressed-out sounding voice. I basically told him I'm sure our daughter would be happy to see him but we have plans this weekend so it's better if he doesn't come. He still kept calling me asking to make the decision for him. He ended up not coming.

Then my husband called several times this week about Christmas gifts and things he thought we might want. He wanted to order us a new bed. He asked if I need a new blender. He asked which toy specifically our daughter had requested the most. He sent extra money.

There was all that communication and then yesterday he never called at all. Today he called for five seconds in the morning and said he'd call our daughter back later and then he never called.

The inconsistency, the complete lack of having even a clue as to what's going on, and the loneliness around the holidays just seem intolerable. Obviously my husband isn't taking any action towards reconciling, but he's also no longer mad like he was when he wanted a divorce last winter. He doesn't stay here with us when he visits, he doesn't hug me, he doesn't say sorry for anything, yet he'll call many times in a week over insignificant things and he's quite nice. At the moment I feel there must be something I could or should do to clarify our situation but I just don't know what. I'm just stuck. I feel like I don't know if we're married, not married, done forever, or if he's happy with the situation as-is but if it comes to divorce he'd finally come home.....he's probably dating one or more women so I imagine it changes based on whoever he's with.

I'm planning to go to Europe for an extended time in May. I told my husband and he agreed with the plan. My employer agreed as well so I'm looking forward to seeing old friends and enjoying the change-of-scenery but even if I won the lottery it'll still feel like something's missing. I really wanted a loving marriage and family with my husband so badly. I started going into the office every day for work and it's helpful to be surrounded by colleagues...that's one positive....and other aspects of life are going well but the emptiness is always there.

In general I currently feel like I need guidance but not the GAL, detach, etc.. intro-level DB-type guidance but more on whether to try to engage my husband and create an opening for him to feel comfortable talking or if I should be closed-off and send a clear message that I've moved on and don't want to talk unless he has something important to say. I'd still like to reconcile if my husband were to ever have an awakening. I'd still love to give my daughter a home with both parents. My husband went off-the-deep-end but he used to be a very nice, gentle, loving guy. If someone were to say "you have one final shot at showing your husband reconciliation is an attractive option" I'd want to know what that is. Or if it's totally clear to the universe that reconciliation can't and won't happen then I need to understand what it means to live married and separated. Do I keep telling people I'm married or not? I usually tell people that my husband lives in another state without going into detail. Should I be telling them I'm single instead? Should I wear a wedding ring? So many questions....I just can't seem to make sense of anything.

[neffer]

You can’t be following H cycles Nicole. And you know that. Too many “what if...” Live the reality, protect yourself and D. Get on with your life. You wait for no one. H is ww, stay away from him. Has he shown any change? Come on girl.

Keep DB Nicole. This is a hard month but the new year is coming. You keep walking your road.

Lot of hugs for you and D!

[KitCat]

Nic - he is comfortable where he is at... that is where he will stay.

Utlimately - its time to move on. I'm not saying you have to put forth the D... but you need to move on.

How many times must he call a day? a week? You decide. When he calls give the phone to your Daughter. Stop being available for all those calls. He has a headache??? Boohoo... he is a physician he should know how to heal thy self. He wants to whine... and you let him.

You've discussed items for Christmas... its done. No more to discuss.

You keep answering the phone or wallowing when you don't that he may want to have the talk about coming back. Here's the kicker. Let's say he does want to come back, you NOT taking that call won't stop it... he will just be more determined to get through to you.

Nic, I've said it over and over again. He knows you are just sitting there waiting for him to decide if he wants to come back. He is not the least bit worried about losing you.

I don't have a crystal ball. I know how hard and how painful of a time this is. Your hopes of a united family - how seriously you took your marriage vows, etc. I am not belittling any of that torture. But you have to stop living your life on when or maybe your H will give it one last shot. Trust me - they won't feel the panic of loss unless they truly have.

[KitCat]

Nic - I don't want to sound too harsh. We are all here for the same reason which is to save ourselves and hopefully save our M.

Its just your H treats you like a doormat... comes in and wipes his feet about and moves on. NOT ONCE in the last few months have I read anything about him showing concern for YOUR feelings. Sure, he helps out with $, he takes your D out... those are his OBLIGATIONS.

Stop and think when did he last show any true concern for your emotional well being????

[Jim1234]

Nicole, your H has reached what is, for him, a good place. He has you on call any time he feels like, he provides money so his conscience is clear, has enough money to meet his needs, can date whoever he wants, and knows he has you as an option if his new life doesn't work out. Now that he's reached a new, happy equilibrium, he's in not rush to move the divorce forward, and he has no reason to get back together. This condition will probably last until either his new girlfriend wants to get married, or you get tired of it and force it along.

We are both pining for our lost lives and loves and it prevents us from moving on. Your life, and mine, still revolve around our exes, and we both need to change that. I'm starting to move forward with that, and pushing the divorce forward. In my opinion, you need to stop answering his calls, as a first step. I'd suggest being straightforward and saying it's not healthy for you, you can't detach and move on with this constant contact and you won't be taking his calls anymore. The best option is to get your D a cheap phone he can call himself, or else, when he calls, just hand it to her, and don't answer if she's not around. He doesn't have anything important that he needs to talk to you about. Even if he's dying, that's not your concern anymore. He fired you from that job. Let him figure out what she wants for Christmas.

Think about what you said about moving to Europe... "I told my husband and he agreed with the plan". Who cares if he agrees? You are letting him have a say in your life. Stop it. (I know, it's sooooo easy to type and soooo hard to live it. I do get that.)

I wonder how much of this money is "extra". Have you been to a lawyer to see just how much you would be receiving as alimony/child support? This "extra" may still be well below what you are entitled to under the law. If you start receiving it, he wouldn't have to send "extra" for a new bed; you'd already have it. Maybe he is the extraordinary man who generously gives his W more than the law would require, but I highly doubt it. I wonder if he's as generous as you think. I know a lot of bread winners think "Ex doesn't deserve that much!" but you were every bit as instrumental to his success as he is. You were a team and shouldn't have your contributions to the team diminished just because your sacrifices for the team allowed him to earn more.

I suggest taking off the wedding ring, and telling people you are separated. This will not only open some doors, but also help with your mindset. As long as you are telling people you are married or have a husband, you are preventing yourself from moving on.

One final thought.... Steve85 has a thread where he talks about a "magic bullet." In short, he says the only way to win back your spouse is to give them up. You should read it, if you haven't already. I think it really pertains to both of us.

((hugs))

[NicoleR]

Neffer, thanks for taking the time to respond and for your encouragement!

KitKat, thanks for your consistency in reminders and for capturing the DB approach in your own words. I struggle to capture the dilemma I feel in words but the part that I'm questioning is how to walk the fine line between creating the right conditions for reconciliation and demonstrating that I've moved on. My husband has showed interest in talking. I've been polite and give short responses but I don't engage in conversation beyond 10 or 15 seconds. If I'm busy I send a text saying I'm busy but sometimes he wants to talk at the end of his conversation with our daughter. I think how I've talked would fit the DB approach but I *could* allow the conversations to flow and stay on the phone longer and see how it goes. I lack confidence in how to proceed. I think my husband may interpret my lack of interest to mean that I've moved on and he thinks "yeah she's already gone so there's no use." After all those calls the other week he's backed off again. But if I spend a few minutes laughing, joking, and having a nice conversation he might think "wow, she's doing great and it's nice talking with her again....maybe we can talk more..." There seems to be a window of opportunity. I hesitate to blindly follow DB when a different set of actions could elicit a different response. I hear you and others use the term "move on" quite often. Could you define "moving on" in your own words?

Jim, yes, my husband may be content with his situation now. That's how it looks. It's hard to know what lies beneath the surface. I'll check about a cheap phone for my daughter and see if that works better. Regarding the trip to Europe, I had to ask him because he needs to provide permission for our daughter to leave the country. Last time I had to take a "permission to travel" travel that he signed so I wanted to ask him early about the next trip. I guess I could wait until a week or two before our trip to tell him we're going, but at that point if he doesn't agree to sign the letter I could lose money on flights and accommodations. It seemed better to ask him early on, but I don't know if it was right. It was kind of a practicality but perhaps I should have waited. Last spring I did meet with a lawyer to calculate what my husband would need to provide financially using his salary and my unemployed status at that time. His salary has since gotten lower and my income has increased but he's been sending the same amount plus more. If we get divorced though all this will need to get re-calculated especially at the point when we sell our house. With the wedding ring I stopped wearing it last winter when my husband said he wants a divorce and took his girlfriend to Dubai. I need to better understand what it means to say you're separated, especially when there are no divorce proceedings in place and when such a status isn't recognized by either of the states where my husband and I live. Jim it's good you're pushing your divorce forward if you feel ready. Maybe I'll feel that way at someday too, but I'd like to be more comfortable with the 'separated' status for the time being.

I'm planning to speak with a psychiatrist who helped my husband in his career earlier on and who has a good reputation. I'll see what he suggests. He's from my husband's home country and he knows us both well. I'll share an update when that happens.

Thanks again everyone!

[ovrrnbw]

I think my husband may interpret my lack of interest to mean that I've moved on and he thinks "yeah she's already gone so there's no use."

Or it may make him think that Plan B is no longer on the table and make him rethink what he's doing and what he wants. Either way, him thinking you have moved on will help to spur some action.

After all those calls the other week he's backed off again. But if I spend a few minutes laughing, joking, and having a nice conversation he might think "wow, she's doing great and it's nice talking with her again....maybe we can talk more..."

So he's detaching it seems like. You're wanting to pursue. Have you pursued in the past, and how did it work out? I really am curious here, because ultimately you have to do what works.

Could you define "moving on" in your own words?

Treat him like an ex-bf. What's there to talk about? It's not like he cares to be involved in your daughter's life much at all.

[Maika]

If you have any chance at recon, he needs to understand and know that you've moved on. Moved on in the example you mentioned above is for you to only communicate about what's necessary - your daughter and finances. Everything else is just not on the table. Your demeanor is pleasant and polite, but nothing more.

It isn't about a window of opportunity, it's more about him taking a risk and putting something out there. He's gotta put work in this knowing that he may get rejected. I personally wouldn't have it any other way.

Moving on also means you have zero concerns about what he desires, and how you can act to create space for him to talk about those desires. If he wants, he'll have to come out with it.

It is not on you to create an environment where a discussion around recon can take place. It is on his shoulders. I understand the want to go 'back', but just remember when you were in that cramped apartment, sick, taking care of your daughter, and he was frolicking around in Dubai with some woman. You really want that 'man'? No you don't.

[NicoleR]

Hi Ovrrnbw, yes I don't know but I guess this is like moving on part II. I feel like I passed the moving on stage when I decided to give up, move, and start my life over again yet there are many feelings and questions that linger on. I haven't tried pursuing. I don't think I'd want to do that, and I haven't tried it aside from the sincere apologies I made earlier in the year, but I just wonder if I allowed the conversation to elongate and keep it light and airy if it'd make any difference. I don't think I will, but it's just something I wish cross off in my mind as I second-guess which method is best.

Maika, your message is helpful because it really spells out how to act and what it means to move on. I've been unclear about this but now I feel like I get it. I like your use of the word 'frolicking' because that's exactly what it was.

Quick update - so my husband called twice this evening to speak with our daughter. The second time he was on FaceTime and his eyes were puffy again and he looked sad. He hasn't been here for a few weeks but he'll be here on Christmas morning. He said tonight he'll spend a week here when he comes and he said he'll be coming more often after that. He said to our daughter "I'll explain more to you and mama when I come." Our daughter also asked the other day if he can sleep here on Christmas and he said "yes we'll discuss it." So something seems to be happening - it could always change though. My husband could meet some new fun easy 26 year old tomorrow and it'd probably throw off his whole plan. But I'm curious to see what he has in mind.