Hello friends. Its been a while since I posted. Thank you Marina, DNJ, and Gordie for your advice and guidance. I took about a month to chew on that and try and further myself through this process.
As we move in to the holiday season, I feel so mixed up about things. I suppose that is to be expected. Although we were not doing great last year, W was still at home so the holidays, however awkward, were still spent together. Even though she has been moved out for 6 months and I have gotten used to it, this will be the first Christmas not together as a family.
I have gone through a period to where I feel totally detached from any feelings towards W. I don't really see that I want to reconcile at this point. Not that I hate W or anything, its just enough time has passed since I've had any meaningful interaction with her, and she has been gone long enough, that as each day passes she seems to grow smaller in my rearview mirror. Our only interactions are sometimes when we trade off the kids and the occasional text regarding scheduling of kid stuff. Its weird because she doesn't seem to be doing any crazy replay stuff anymore and although she isn't her old self, she seems to be a bit more level headed than she has been since the start of MLC. Sometimes when I see her she seems a bit nicer (not quite so cold shoulder to me), but other times still distant. I kind of don't really feel anything to either. When shes distant it seems par for the course, and when shes nice it just seems like the up to her down.
I feel like I am nearing the end of my desire to stand. I just re-read the old post that job reposted about reconnecting. Just reading about the long process of emotional/mental gymnastics required by the LBS at that stage just seems so exhausting and its hard to see that its worth it. I mean, I feel like I deserve to be with someone who wants to be with me. Someone who cares about me enough to be willing to fight for me as hard as I have been fighting for my own marriage/W. To see that I could go through 2 years of being rejected through replay antics and not even be at the LONG stage of playing delicate with her emotional state as to not run her off again just seems overwhelming. And to know that if I don't, the at that point it will be ME that is saying no to saving our marriage.
And now I have done something to muddy the waters a little further. I met a girl I kind of like. We went for coffee and ended up talking for over 2 hours. She is a year past her divorce from an 18 year relationship. It was really hard on her. A couple of weeks later we went to dinner together. It isn't serious, but I can tell that it could very easily slip in to something serious if I let it. Its hard because talking to her is so easy and its nice to have someone interested in talking to you. Of course, I also feel pretty confused about it because for all this time I've been standing for my marriage not even thinking about dating. Now, even though W told me we were done and that I should move on multiple times, I still almost feel like I'm doing something wrong. I mean not exactly, but a little bit. I hate it that nothing I do really feels right.
Generally I have been doing well and have been doing my best to GAL and regain some peace and happiness. And it has been working. Its just this last week and as we move in to the holiday season I feel conflicted about things again. Ws family still calls me wanting to do things with me and plan stuff with the kids. They are still talking and getting along with W, but I think they get better visits with the kids when they are with me and better planning and gift ideas when they call me. Its weird because I feel like I should be distancing myself from them since W has moved out and is living completely separate from me...but they have been my family for the last 20 years and thats hard to give up without a good reason.
Thanks...I just need to journal a little. Comments welcome...even if its in 2x4 form.
No 2x4’s from me John. Six months is still not a very long time. I think this is just the slow process of detaching and of course this time of year makes it tougher. It is all about family. This will be our first Christmas not together as a family as well. I am not looking forward to it. I wish I could say I was but I know that it will be an emotional time. I am trying so hard to remember last year but it is a blur with only a few pictures on my phone. If only I had known... I would have taken many more pics or...maybe none at all. Hard to say.
Sounds like you met a quality person who you could see having a relationship with. I think you are right not to go there right now. It wouldn’t be fair to her and it sounds like she has been through enough. Maybe you can maintain a friendship until you feel more ready. I think you will know when that is.
I get the part that it feels like we doing something wrong, Like cheating.
I remember just going to movies and drink like a month ago And I was like this is weird and kept looking over my shoulder As if W was going walk in and say Wth your doing.
And John if you feel like it's wrong then it means it's to Soon. Your not ready.
Speaking for me I wasn't. And when I do go out with friends I make it clear is just friends.
And honestly when is the right time. We don't know I go To divorce groups and they say their is no time line. It can Take years.
I think you miss being wanted. Having a woman want you. I don't blame you. We are all adults. We miss that desire to Feel another person wanting us.
But don't confuse wanting, needing to start a new relationship.
What I have done is go out on groups so we don't do something We will regret. Again this works for me.
Now your W sounds like mines. My W stop being angry But also just not herself is weird to explain but I know she isn't herself.
I honestly have stop looking for signs. Because it puts me in a spiral I only can handle myself and I am doing that.
And your right Holiday season doesn't help us. We all here must get through this season.
Try to remember the good of W, oh trust me is hard I know But if your standing and see memories slipping away. If you can handle it. Find the good memories and hold on to those.
Remember... One day at a time...
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
I am glad you posted, I was wondering what was going on. I did think you were doing a bit of reflecting, much like I did we do tend to go offline for a bit while sorting things out.
Your feelings, or more the lack of, is described very well, as well as your confusion regarding it. Keep posting about it, it will help sort it out.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
I have gone through a period to where I feel totally detached from any feelings towards W.
For what it is worth, and for accuracy, that is indifference. Detachment unties your emotions from her emotions and antics, you still feel towards her - love anger, hate, pity, sorrow, etc. It brings a big reduction in the emotional rollercoaster, and some clarity and comfort.
Indifference ceases your feelings, or greatly reduces them, regarding her.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
...she seems to grow smaller in my rearview mirror.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
I still almost feel like I'm doing something wrong. I mean not exactly, but a little bit. I hate it that nothing I do really feels right.
This is a strange state to be in. This is where we all were hoping to get to, back when we were suffering so much. It brings much peace, since her antics do not faze you in the least. However, there are traps to be wary of.
First, I would like to point out how feeling something makes it so much more real. We all know our MLCers are doing this in overdrive. The LBS is not immune to it either. Before our mixed up feelings and pain, we thought we would never get over it. And look where we are. Currently the lack feelings seems like it will be forever and you should just throw in the towel. Here is the first 2x4:
Do not decide things based on your feelings! They will change!
Look at where you are. When you started this path after BD, I am sure, I know, you felt different.
Find your beliefs, your core, what makes sjohns6, and follow that.
Look at what you wrote (and by the way perfect, sincere and honest). You feel like you are doing something wrong. You hate this. Nothing feels right.
Yep. That would be expected. Some of those traps I mentioned. Of course it feels wrong, this is a strange new place for you, it is going to feel wrong for a while. Give it time to settle in.
From what I see you now have very little noise or distraction from W or yourself, just what you need to find out who you truely are. sjohns6, from someone who cares enough to urge you to do what is best for you - Don’t waste this opportunity. Very few people ever get the chance to seek within themselves, or have the friends that will help them and hold them to the task. Most friends want a quick fix for you, and most people just want a quick fix. I believe you know better and want a more solid realization of life.
About a month ago I rambled on quite a bit on detachment and indifference. I asked a bunch of priming questions. I am thinking if you were to read it again, you may see it differently, maybe even have some of those profound insights you were looking for.
Now on to the remainder of the 2x4s:
Standing. I get it. You have healed enough to know you will be alright. You know enough that you could let go of W. Indifference makes it seem like standing is pointless. Feelings - be careful. Follow something better.
True standing starts when you are at this point, where you could just walk away.
Stand!
Keep moving forward, but stand. Let things settle down within your emotional self, the other feelings that seem so large. Make your decision not based on feelings.
Do not look so far out into the future. Yes reconciliation is a very long process. You do not need to decide today. Just give yourself some time.
Do not date, you are not ready. Be honest and sincere, and I mean with yourself. This is me totally projecting on to you, with my situation.
I honesty desire that widow work lady. I am also interested in the other girl. I am not over my STBXW. I went to the Christmas party alone. I had one girl that is throwing herself at me, and the other with the answer yes to a date that I haven’t even asked for yet. I have given myself some time and the feelings did subside.
You should do the same. Let your new feelings subside a bit, then make better decisions. You do deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you, absolutely! Just don’t rush it.
One last thing, for the moment. All this is advice is for you, your life, your healing, your future, your path, it has nothing to do with W and everything to do with you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
True standing starts when you are at this point, where you could just walk away.
Stand!
Keep moving forward, but stand. Let things settle down within your emotional self, the other feelings that seem so large. Make your decision not based on feelings.
Do not look so far out into the future. Yes reconciliation is a very long process. You do not need to decide today. Just give yourself some time.
As usual, I agree with DnJ.
Even Gerda the nun has been tempted of late by someone who has been helping me amazingly with biz problems and divorce procedure stuff and who I dated briefly in my 20's. I have found myself in late-night situations that could have gone way south of standing and managed to extricate myself. I'm not sure I know of anyone on these boards as devoted to standing through unforgivable behavior as I am, and so willing to surrender herself to God's will, and this kind of crush and temptation and confusion happens to me too. It even happens to me on these boards, where -- let's admit it -- all of us get to get comfort from each other with an intensity that would in person be rather questionable for a stander.
DnJ is right, don't go by your feelings, otherwise known as the flesh. That flesh is stretchy and flammable. Wait and watch. Forgive yourself. Cry and punch things. If you don't pray, talk to the universe. Out loud. Under the trees like DnJ or wherever you can feel the universe. Remember that you have many friends here who admire you, who completely and totally understand your pain and your confusion, your hope and your despair. Whatever you are going through, we are too. Those who believe it's okay to date can see you aren't ready to date.
Whatever you decide, we love you.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Hello again. Thank you all so much for the support. I've been doing pretty good lately. Feeling a lot more like myself again. More happiness and confidence than I've felt for some time. Having said that, like I mentioned above, I think the holidays can be hard even when things are feeling better. Still, I've been doing good with getting presents for all my friends and family as well as getting the house decorated for Christmas. Its mainly when I think about Christmas day and possibly waking up to an empty house that starts to pull at me a little. I think that's the mindset I was in with the confusion I was feeling in my post above. As the days tick by I am feeling more peace about it.
DejaVu: I'm sorry to hear you are about to experience your first Christmas apart too. And yeah, 6 months isn't a long time, but BD was about 2 years ago (will be 2 years in a couple weeks). W moved out for 2 months last year but then moved back in. So 6 months is just how long since W moved out, but I've been dealing with all the MLC stuff for a couple years now. I like your idea of maybe being friends with the girl I met until I'm a little bit more ready for dating. Thank you for that!
Marina: Hi there. About 4 months ago I had lunch with a girl I used to date from church when I was in high school. The lunch wasn't really a date, but I absolutely felt like I was doing something wrong...like I was cheating. I did not do that again because it was obvious to me at that point that I was in no way ready to date. I felt like I was doing something wrong and it wasn't even a date. This time with the girl I met recently, it felt different. What felt wrong wasn't regarding cheating. What felt wrong was more to do with feeling like I might be misleading her somehow. Its hard to describe, but maybe like I felt like I had info that I wasn't disclosing. Which is kind of true. This MLC thing has a lot of layers and its not easy to describe to people, even if they are interested in hearing about it. Whether I feel over my relationship with W or not, I know that despite what she has said, she isn't ACTUALLY done with it. I know that there is no guarantee the spouse will want to return when they "wake up", but I'm pretty sure based on how I've handled myself and how our relationship was before that W will EVENTUALLY be interested in fixing things between us. At this point I'm not sure thats even something that I'm going to want anymore, but I know its a situation I will have to deal with eventually. In talking to this girl I am realizing that a few things about myself and what I want that I hadn't really considered before. W and I got together really young and we kind of grew up together, so to speak. I've never as an adult been in a relationship with anyone else. Talking to this girl (again, not anything serious with her yet, mainly just good conversation) makes me realize that other people interact in different ways. W and I got along good before MLC, but I am starting to realize that I might actually get along better with someone else. You are right about missing being wanted. I certainly do. I am sure that is a big part of it, but I don't think that's all of it. Thank you so much for your support and advice.
DnJ: Sigh...as usual, you are right and I agree. I have been told multiple times since joining these boards that the advice that was given was a 2x4, but it never really felt like that. This time it did. Your advice and support is perfect and just what I needed to hear, but I didn't WANT to hear it. Being with and talking to this girl is very nice. I really like her. She is really smart, cute, and we have a lot in common. She is an environmental biologist. I know I probably shouldn't be talking to her yet. Its funny, now that you mention it, this is the stage I was fighting to get to...and now that I'm here I guess I'm already ready to fight to get to the next stage. I guess I need to stop a minute and appreciate just getting this far. Doing all of these things for yourself/ourselves is something that we say to each other over and over. I've kind of taken it on as a mantra to myself. Having said that, for whatever reason, reading it at the end of your comment to me was different this time. It actually MEANT something to me this time. I caught a glimpse of what that actually meant. Before, everything in my head was about W. Doing things for myself meant fixing myself...so that I could get W back. The second half of that was more subconscious, but still there. Now saying that was more in relation to standing without dating or moving on...not about W. Common denominator, me. I am the reason to do things without a subconscious anything else. I realize the direction I was heading and how talking to someone else changes that direction, whether for the good or the bad, it changes. I won't lie, I still want to talk to this girl. But I recognize a little better now why I shouldn't. Because it would be better for ME and my healing/growth. I think I might go reread the indifference/detachment comments you made. Curious if I would read it differently this time. As always, thank you so much for the advice, support, and needed 2x4's. Hopefully I will be able to use the advice wisely. I do have an observation regarding you. I may be wrong about this, but I noticed that you recently referred to your W as your STBXW. I don't think I've seen you refer to her as your STBX before. Do you think there is any deeper meaning there?
Gerda: Its good to hear from you. I always look for updates on your thread when I log in. I'm proud of you for standing strong when in a situation that could have lead to more. I now know how hard that can be. Throughout my marriage I never even tried to look at another woman so the lure of someone else is new to me. I mean, if some floozy flirts with me I probably wouldn't even notice it, but its a different story when the person is someone you might actually like and it happens more naturally. I often look out at the stars and let my mind wander as I contemplate the universe, but I haven't ever tried speaking out to it. I like that. I think I'll give that a try. Thank you so much! And Gerda, we love you too!!
I guess I have a lot to think about...which really is no different than before. I guess what I am thinking about is what is changing. Back to my ongoing effort of continual self improvement. Hope you guys are doing ok today. I want you all to be great, but that might be a tall order for some of us given the circumstances, so I will stick wth OK for today.
You sound really good, and here you were just shooting for OK.
I can see the happiness and confidence you have, it shows in your posts. That’s awesome! Feels good, doesn’t it?
Now figure out what is making you so happy. Btw, it is not the girl you are seeing / talking too. Once you figure it out you’ll realize you have it with you all the time, even on a Christmas morning with a less full household then you would like. That doesn’t mean you’ll be exuberant and doing back flips, just that will have peace and the patience to wait until your house is full of energy and kids running around again. Inner peace and happiness is incredibly strong. Cr@p may have given out a clue.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
The lunch wasn't really a date, but I absolutely felt like I was doing something wrong...like I was cheating. I did not do that again because it was obvious to me at that point that I was in no way ready to date. I felt like I was doing something wrong and it wasn't even a date. This time with the girl I met recently, it felt different. What felt wrong wasn't regarding cheating. What felt wrong was more to do with feeling like I might be misleading her somehow. Its hard to describe, but maybe like I felt like I had info that I wasn't disclosing.
I total get that. The feeling of misleading her somehow, oh yes.
I’ve chalked it up to as you have said not fully disclosing something - my feelings, my situation. A big part of it is that I do not want to break her heart, or cause pain - due to me not being ready.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
DnJ: Sigh...as usual, you are right and I agree. I have been told multiple times since joining these boards that the advice that was given was a 2x4, but it never really felt like that. This time it did. Your advice and support is perfect and just what I needed to hear, but I didn't WANT to hear it.
Your ability to accept constructive feedback is commendable. Just so you know swinging around 2x4s ain’t easy, I got all these slivers in my hands, I think I pulled a muscle in my arm, and I broke a nail - Sigh....
You know it is not all the advice is a 2x4, just the ones you need to hear. I know what you mean with I didn’t want to hear it. Imagine having DnJ advising you all day in your own head. OMG, I step out of line and I’m all over me. Ha ha. Lol.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
Doing all of these things for yourself/ourselves is something that we say to each other over and over. I've kind of taken it on as a mantra to myself. Having said that, for whatever reason, reading it at the end of your comment to me was different this time. It actually MEANT something to me this time. I caught a glimpse of what that actually meant. Before, everything in my head was about W. Doing things for myself meant fixing myself...so that I could get W back. The second half of that was more subconscious, but still there. Now saying that was more in relation to standing without dating or moving on...not about W. Common denominator, me. I am the reason to do things without a subconscious anything else.
This ^^^^. I am happy for you. Welcome to the profound.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
I think I might go reread the indifference/detachment comments you made. Curious if I would read it differently this time.
If you do, and would like to share, I would love to hear what how you now read it.
Originally Posted by sjohns6
I do have an observation regarding you. I may be wrong about this, but I noticed that you recently referred to your W as your STBXW. I don't think I've seen you refer to her as your STBX before. Do you think there is any deeper meaning there?
No real deep meaning, just being accurate. You may have missed my postings. On November 9 I basically was served divorce papers. W filed as soon as the one year since the October 10 2017 separation, actually she jump the gun a little.
This effort of her’s is looking to be completed even faster than her separation which was finalized in 61 days after BD, OM, move out, adultery admission, and throwing everything and everyone away. Wow a lot happened in those scant few days.
Anyhow, the divorce, which did catch me off guard, was forwarded to the courts on my Birthday, and if my L is correct on timing, and if nothing is held up, should be enacted on or about Christmas Day.
So I have been using STBXW - soon to be ex wife - since it is an accurate accounting of her status. I even updated my signature line for these weeks. I do switch to using W at times, to many damn letters to type in STBXW. Lol. Soon it will just be XW or maybe just X, small case maybe xw, or x. I don’t know, I’ll have to figure it out soon.
So that is why, no big deep meaning, just me being accurate and trying to see the big full picture denial free.
Take care.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Happy holidays everyone! I hope you all had the best Christmas possible!
Before getting to my Christmas journalling I have to say thank you to DNJ for the advice above. I have been chewing on it for a bit. The holidays are a time for self reflection and getting back to the basics of whats important and this year seems doubly so for me. Just trying to make the best decisions possible and gain some peace and happiness where I can.
I was worried about Christmas and how it was going to go. Last year I was an emotional mess...to the degree that I can't really even remember the day and how it went. This year W is living on her own and this week is my week with the kids. Every year Ws Mom, step dad, and brother come in from California and stay with us over the holiday week. This year, however, they will be staying with her instead. I guess that worked out ok since the kids were with me so their beds at Ws house were open for visitors. Of course that also means that W got to entertain her family (who love me, btw) without me OR her kids being there.
So, this past Sunday (day before Christmas eve) W had a dinner in the afternoon because her mom had just got to town and her cousin was coming over to visit. She invited me (asked if I wanted to come and bring the kids when normally asks if the kids can come when making plans) so I took the kids over there. I did not think much of it as I haven't been feeling anything towards W lately. I was wrong. It felt really awkward. Nothing to do with the family, they were all happy to see us and the dinner went well. I just hadn't spent more than 5 minutes in her house, and here I was hanging out with all the family and spending hours there. Eating off of some of my old dishes, sitting at my old table, visiting with my old family. It was emotionally very difficult. I felt like the elephant in the room...but not because of how anyone acted towards me.
The next day was Christmas Eve. I worked a few hours in the morning, but then went home to the kids. W was having a Christmas Eve dinner with her family so I took the kids back over there. This time it was much easier. I just hung out and visited with the family and it was nice. Leaving was hard because I was leaving on Christmas Eve to go home with just me and the kids to open 1 gift and wrap the rest...by myself this year. I agreed to have Christmas morning with W since I'd be spending the rest of the day with my family.
I stayed up till 2:30am wrapping all the presents. Then, I got up at 6:30 with daughter and the festivities began. It was hard waking up and doing stockings/presents without W. The kids LOVED all their gifts. They told me that if they got nothing else, they were happy with all that they got from me and I had hit everything on Ds list. I took some cute pics of the kids opening presents and texted them to W. She was very receptive and responsive to the texts...which is something kind of new since all this began a couple years ago.
After opening gifts, we packed up and went to BILs house (Ws brother). They had a full house and it was a great time. There were several points over the course of the morning that things seemed so "normal" that I forgot about our situation for a minute. Spending time visiting with her family and chatting about normal stuff. When it came time for present opening, W had filled a stocking for me. Had all the normal stuff she has always put in there. Fancy soaps and candy. She even put underwear in there. It seemed kind of weird that she bought me underwear given the circumstances...even if it was just a stocking stuffer. Then, she had bought me a gift as well. I also noticed that on at least several of the gifts she got for her family she signed it from all of us. Her name, my name, and the kids names. That seemed strange to me, again...given the circumstances.
Leaving was hard. Things seemed so normal for a bit...but then I had to leave and take the kids to my familys house...without her. The rest of the day was fun and relaxing as I hung out with my family.
So, these last few days have really made my head spin a bit. I have not spent any substantial amount of time around W at all lately and I had really begun to feel indifferent towards her. I kind of felt like I was on the verge of being free from her emotionally. I now realize that it was probably the distance between us that was allowing me to break free from the emotional bondage I was experiencing. After spending more time with/around W these last few days, I realize that I do still have feelings. And, being around her I noticed a slight change in her from the last time I noticed how she was doing (haven't been watching her and trying to figure out her stage in a while). She invited me over and not just the kids. She was responsive to a back and forth of text. She bought me a gift and signed other gifts from us.
So, none of that is to say that I have any expectations of W. I do not have any renewed hope towards reconciliation nor will I be doing anything different other than just living my life. It was surprising, though. Makes me wonder if W is actually still in there somewhere poking her head out of the tunnel a little to look around. I know holidays are a more emotional time and brings out the feelers for everyone. Once we are fully back in to every day mode I am sure W will return to her regular MLC confusion.
Now, a few days till my birthday and it will technically be Ws day with the kids. Wonder how that will play out. So many days to not quite look forward to this month. Looking forward to 2019!!
If you want the kids with you on your day then you should ask her
I can see how all of the above would make your head spin
Particularly the from us on the presents
I do not know if I could have done what you did with her family
But you are you
Take care
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
St. John...Thanks for hitting me up on my thread. We are kind of on the same crazy train of emotions I sure, but I know after the emotions of the holiday time closes we will be able to drop that rope a bit more. We all pray for Christmas miracles and kind of get that thought in our head that it might happen for up. While I believe that miracles can happen I want us to stay the course and be strong for ourselves and our kids.
I had forgotten that you were in TX, but I forget where you are. I'm in SETX, but travel to Houston and Dallas regularly. Maybe we can get together over a beer one of these days.
Happy Birthday and Happy New Years to you my friend.
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
