MLC first time poster

[KeepFig]

thanks again DnC and job. Like I said always good to hear from others. Well here is the post for today:

So she texted me this am about putting money in the kids account for school lunches about 11am. I didn't think I really needed to respond because it was more of a matter of fact text and I was going to go halves on it later in the day. Since I was going DIM I decided to do other things (took a personal day to buy kids some furniture for their bedrooms). Anyways got caught up and was on the phone about 3pm and I guess she texted me again asking if she could come over to the house to get some stuff from the attic. Well being on the phone I never saw the text and she pulls up to the house (she doesn't know I took the day off) and there I am sitting outside when she pulls up - look on her face was priceless. Because I didn't answer she could come by yet. Anyways she gets out and first thing she says is "didn't you see any of my texts? I texted you a few times today". To which I replied I was busy trying to put together furniture for the boys so they could get their clothes off the floor and was on the phone a bunch - like a nice way of saying you are not my priority anymore - without being mean about it. She was not happy - started in with "you could have at least acknowledge you got the text - said OK or something." Told her sorry she felt that way but I was really busy. So she gets gets cold and angry and starts loading stuff into her car. Gets some stuff from the attic and I asked her if I could help. So I move some stuff into her car for her. So to break the cold ice - she is standing in the garage and I asked her how her day was. She starts telling me about some stuff at work, but I can tell she is thinking other things because start to see her eyes tear up.

So I ask her whats wrong and get this - she starts to tell me she doesn't know why I am so angry with her and feels like I hate her and I don't want to spend time with her. She brings up the fact that I didn't want to go to the haunted hayride Saturday night - which if you see my previous posts was the day she moved out. I told her I just couldn't I was to hurt coming home to see she had walked out of our lives and moved out. That I did want to spend time with her but I was trying to do it on her terms - no pressure. She said "I wouldn't have asked you to go if I didn't want to spend time with you." Then she asked permission if she could still come over for Halloween. I told her of course that I was leaving that decision to her but I would love to spend time as a family. I told her again I didn't want to pressure her and I was doing everything I could for her "happiness" and that I was not angry with her. She then asked if we could still go this weekend to the haunted hayride and again I told her that was entirely up to her, but I would enjoy spending time together if she wanted. Then she told me she told our boys that on her weeks with the kids she wanted to get together at least one day a week and have dinner together. I told her that would be fine. And then told her that I was taking the boys out Thursday night after hockey for dinner if she wanted to join us and she said she would love too. Then she says "I wonder if that's to much. Wednesday for Halloween, Thursday after hockey and then Friday the hayride." I couldn't tell if she was saying that to me or herself or both?? I just told her whatever she wanted to do.

Then she asked if she could hang out five minutes to see the boys when they got home from school. Since I was there I thought it was the right thing to do. She said hi to the boys in the garage and then we walked to her car. She told me she would never ask me to do something with her out of "pity" that if she asked me it's because she really wanted to spend time with me. I told her whatever she wanted to do, but I was doing everything I could to not put any pressure on her - basically ball is your court. I told her even though the situation was not good I did have fun spending time with her the last 2-3 weeks, especially the time we spent just the two of us. She said she really enjoyed it too and that it felt like it had been so long since we just hung out and had fun together laughing and talking. She had tears in her eyes and leaned over and hugged me tight - and of course commented how she couldn't remember how long it had been since she could wrap her arms all the way around me (i've lost 53 pounds in 3 months - divorce diet is not the best but I have taken up running and just ran my first 5k last weekend). Anyway we both laughed and she left.

I am going in with zero expectations this week. If it happens and she joins she does, if not I am not crushed. Ball is in her court. And by the way she texted me three more times tonight about beating my 5k time when she went running tonight. I did reply back and just told her good job but I would get there soon enough.

Any thoughts?

[job]

You handled things just fine. She's feeling the inch a bit in the fact that you aren't jumping to respond to her texts. Well, life goes on and you are busy getting things done for your kids and for yourself. She needs to realize that she is no longer number one on your priority list.

She feels guilty for what she's doing and she thinks you are angry w/her by not doing things w/her...but she needs to learn to understand that you have things to do that do not involve her any longer. You are playing mom and dad to your kids and that takes up a lot of time after you work a job.

Continue to be dim and let her text to her heart's content...but only respond when you are ready to do so. Do not be too chatty about what you are doing...she needs to miss you and be curious about what you are doing.

Hang in there!

[KeepFig]

okay so is it just me or am I right to be disappointed? Third night in a row she hasn't called or texted her children to say goodnight. Just sad and all I am going to do is let her fall flat on her face. Kids are really starting to see it and I am sad that they are going to start resenting her, but I got to let her play her own cards. Just frustrating for me seeing how she does this to the kids.

[Gordie]

KF: Are you right to be disappointed?

G: Your feelings are neither right nor wrong

You do not need to let your feelings dictate your actions

But for your own mental health you should acknowledge them

Disappointed angry sad depressed impatient disgusted

Do not stuff your feelings

Be more self aware

I am feeling disappointed right now

I am disappointed that the mother of my children does not call them daily

This disappointment is driven by an expectation

My expectation is that she acts like the w and mother I knew

Aha

She is no longer the w and mother I knew

I am actively trying to let go of that expectation




She does not want to act like a wife

She wants to live separately from me and the kids

But she expects me to act like a husband

And for me and the kids to be available for family time on demand

To return her texts promptly

For me not to be angry with her



Take your eyes off of her for a moment

How do I feel

What do I want

How do I want to live my life now

How do I want to parent my children

What are my expectations of myself



KF: She does not know why you are so angry with her

G: She wants to do anything she wants with no negative consequences

[DnJ]

Good Morning KF

Gordie is right on the money. Feelings are not good or bad. There just are. Actions taken based on feelings is when good or bad comes into play. So a little more advice.

Do not react to her or her behaviour, respond to it.

Do not be quick in getting back to her, you own feelings will get in the way. Feelings are fleeting, let them settle, then respond from a place of compassion and reason. A pretty good rule is wait 24 hours, maybe even 48 hours before responding, for most things - you’ll know the items (like kids) that require a quicker response.

Again, do not worry about her and her actions. I know very hard in the beginning. Yes three days with out texting or calling good night. Unfortunately that is going to become the new normal for you guys. Be there for your two boys, at eleven years old they are just starting to see thing from their own viewpoint, becoming their own little people.

Young children are egocentric, everything revolves around them, is because of them - in their view of the world. They also do not realize where they stop and you or an authority starts, still developing their own indentity. You know, kids just do what they are told, until they start talking back - ah those years - gosh I hope they stop talking back soon .

So yes they will become resentful. Aren’t you resentful against your W? What she is doing?

You are a grown man with the ability to reason this out and are seeking help here and elsewhere, your children only have you. So, good on you for seeing this. Gently help your children, at their pace, with whatever their problems are at the time. Never break their trust, and keep your word to them - so because what you promise, I will try my best is sometimes a better approach then an absolute promise.

Children personalize this, heck we do also. Even my kids of, at the time, 15,17,19, & 20 blamed themselves for what Mom did. We talked and discussed things, her behaviour gave lots of questions, so no worries on how to bring up a topic. Your goal is to ensure your children know and understand that their Mom’s feelings and actions are not because of them, she owns all her stuff.

Don’t worry KF, your kids have a great role model - You!

I am glad to see you questioning and seeking understanding. That is a great way to solidify your new insights. You will keep getting reminded of certain things, again a very much needed support for the LBS. So, remember to focus on and protect you and your kids. Then start to seek detachment, eventually you will not feel frustrated with her actions, you can’t stop her anyhow, you will get there. For now - focus, and get you and your kids on to the new routines.

You got this.

DnJ

[job]

You've been give excellent advice...but one more thing...keep your expectations at zero of what you think your wife should or should not be doing. If you keep your expectations at zero, you won't be disappointed at anything she does.

She's a teenager right now and teens don't want responsibility...they want freedom to do as they wish.

Keep the focus on you and your children.

[peacetoday]

KF

It is definitely hard to watch our spouses change in such drastic ways especially around the kids
We remember when they were the most devoted parents
Once in MLC, they become pretty irresponsible with the kids
some are worse than others
We can only begin to believe it, once we start seeing it over and over

From my experience with my XH, He was attentive for the first year after BD
Available for the 2nd, but much less
and gone after that

Each person is different, but it is best to become the strong available parent and the kids will usually
adjust and continue to thrive well

Try to only say neutral things about her or say nothing to the kids
say nothing bad
If they want to talk..validate but try not to throw your anger about the situation on them-

Im sorry
I know this is hard

[KeepFig]

First thanks again for the advice Gordie, DnJ, Job, and PT. Love your alls words - helps calm me and get me through the day.

okay here's how Halloween went:

She came over early - which was okay because it was raining. She seemed a little defensive at first - I could tell because she didn't just walk in but knocked on the garage door. A little small talk and hugged both the boys. I figured I would lighten the mood and let her see I was in a good mood - and I was (didn't even have to fake it - was having fun with my boys), so I asked her about a contest she was running for "shoeboxes for soldiers". I think she was surprised that I asked her about it - because yes I do listen to everything she says and we had talked about it last week. Her school came in second, but I told her how proud I was of her. She brightened up immensely and we just started talking about stuff. Anyways in the middle of it she just walked over and hugged me and held - first time she's done that and not been crying about something. I was in such shock I almost didn't know what to do - seriously because one, I wasn't expecting it, and two, I had zero expectations. The only good thing was I didn't let my heart get too wrapped up in it, so I was kind of proud of myself.
Anyways we just hung out for an hour while it was raining and talked and joked and laughed. The rain stopped and we took the boys out for some trick-or-treating. Joked with each other the whole way - just couldn't stop making each other laugh. In fact we spent more time talking with each other than our boys. Then eggshell moment - some of her students saw us out and one of the little girls said "is this your husband?" and she said "yeah he is". Was a little surprised by that - she didn't even hesitate. Anyways a little later on our walk through the neighborhood, she asked if I was still taking the boys on the haunted hayride this Friday and I told her I was. She asked if she could still go - I asked her if she wanted to and she said absolutely. Then on the way home she asked the boys if they wanted to do "breakfast with santa" which we used to do every year and frankly they are a bit old now, and they weren't sure. I told them we always went for me and mom and just dragged them along and we all chuckled and they said they wanted to go. I didn't say anything, and she says "well your dad didn't say if he wants to go." So I asked her if she wanted me to go and she said "yes if you want too.", so I said sure sounds like fun. Well she said goodbye to the boys and then a little snide remark - probably to test me - about she eventually needed to get her birth certificate and other vital paperwork at some point and then joked that she didn't want me using it to sell on the black market. I let it roll off my back and opened her car door for her and she got in. Told her I hope she had a good time with us and she said she did and I said goodnight. She texted me on the way home something funny and I thanked her for coming tonight and that "ALL of US are glad you did". She responded "it was fun" and that was it.

I will tell you having zero expectations made the night much more enjoyable - because one, I wasn't amped up with expectations, and so my mood and my body language was just calm and fun and relaxed - I was having fun with my kids and I feel like it just rubbed off on her as well. And two, if it went bad, well that was too be expected so it wouldn't have hurt near as much. I think that helped with the hug too because I didn't get all, I don't know the words really, but missing her maybe, or like this was some type of love. Just felt like she was reaching out a bit to test me, to see if she was safe. Not sure but all in all I should sleep okay tonight. Hope everyone else had not a bad night too - signing off KF

[DnJ]

Good Morning KF

Sounds like you and your boys had an enjoyable time. I think your W may have also.

It is not surprising that she seemed a bit defensive or timid at first, she has been out of communication for three days, she probably was wondering who and what she would find on the other side of the garage door.

To me, from your retelling, W appeared to be more of her “old” self, joking, hugging, having fun, even introducing you as her husband. I am sure you can see how confusing that must be for her, her struggling with her, too see which one emerges. Where that is going, and which version will have dominance - well that’s the big question. Keep expectations low and no pressure.

You did very well; zero expectations let that evening be whatever it was going to be, and it went in a good direction. Next time? Who knows. Keep the zero expectations, and just see what happens. I am glad this worked out for you and the kids.

In general there is no “right” way to get through this. Everything here, all the suggestions and advice is for the most important person in all of this, that is you. Of course, it is also geared to give the best chance at divorce busting and reconciliation - however first and foremost it is for you to survive and thrive this. Each of our paths traverse this terrain differently, with many ups and downs, switchbacks, and set backs. We just keep moving forward and eventually get there.

So, in my opinion, your Halloween was great. You had a good time, your kids had a good time. W was reminded of good times, perhaps. The big thing is how you felt, how you handled it. Sounded like there was focus on the important people and some detachment. Very well done!

Keep moving forward, keep focus.

DnJ

[KeepFig]

Okay an update on tonight since I just got back and don't want to forget.
So we went to the Haunted Hayride tonight. Things were pretty good. We talked the whole ride down (about 40 min) and we had a blast with the boys. Had some burgers there and the boys started talking about Thanksgiving break and that they would be with mom that week. She said they were and I didn't say much of anything. She then asked the boys if Dad could come over for Thanksgiving and we could spend it together. Of course they wanted me too. I just stayed silent. She then turned and said "you don't have to if you don't want or if you have other plans, but I am inviting you over." I told her sure if that's what everyone wanted. Then she said I had to bring the turkey fryer over. So I commented that she only wanted me to come because of how I cook a turkey - just joking. She said that she could cook one too but it wouldn't be as good as mine and that's not why she was inviting me. I just left it at that with a chuckle.

We went and got in line for the haunted hayride and took a family selfie - that was new. We were just talking about stuff and she asks me what cologne I was wearing. Um okay. So I told her it was one I thought she liked, and she said she did. I said really and she said yeah you smell good. Thought that was cool. Then we got on the hayride and she kind of curled in close, but I did not really do anything. She said she was cold, but as soon as we started moving she leaned back into me. First sign of affection she has really shown where she was initiating it. I just went with it and she seemed perfectly content. Anyways a fun night together and we stopped for ice cream on the way home.

Here is where it changed though - and it was my fault - I put on pressure though I didn't realize it at the time. Just as we were about 5 minutes from the house I asked her if she wanted to tuck the boys into bed since she was here and it was their bed time. She said "sure", but I could tell it was apprehensive the way she said it. When we walked into the house 5 minutes later, she called both the boys over and said goodnight and was like rushing to get out of the house. So fast she forgot some of her stuff. I told her thanks for inviting me and that we all had a good time. She said she did too and jetted out of here. I think she either felt guilty being in the house and seeing where she used to live and what she was doing to us and knowing she had a good time, that she had to get out - just too much pressure. It was okay - I understood, I just felt bad that I put her in that situation when I was just trying to be considerate to give her a chance to tuck her kids into bed. I still had a great time and I know she had some memories to take with her - I just enjoyed the time I got to spend with her. Any comments or suggestions please let me know. Again I wasn't broken when she left, so that's a win.