Getting Back to my Old Self

[TBSakaJ9]

Sorry to hear about WG Don.......what are your plans for the cruise? I am glad OLD woman didn't fade away, she offered an alternative date so I thought that was good. Have you exchanged cell numbers yet? I would just hang tight the rest of the week and reach out to her over the weekend to make plans. Let her wonder about DH and what he is doing.........:) IF you really wanted to gauge her interest you could have put the ball back in her court and told her to get back with you once she figures out her schedule and left it at that. Either way though it sounds like she is interested.

[focus22]

Thanks Don, I really appreciate you giving your time and writing your thoughts. It sure does help me understand things, a lot.

I'll chat about it some more on my own thread...I don't want to hog yours : o)

[Ginger1]

You had a summer love, fling, relationship, and it ended. And she didn't do it in a mature way. It's normal to have feelings towards that. What is "sucked in"? considered. Caring? That's human nature. I don't think we can be with someone intimately and have 3-4 hour phone conversations with them and not be attached on some level. You liked her, it ended and it hurts. And that it is ok. And I am sorry that it happened and the way it did. Very immature on her part, but I saw the slow fade coming. She isn't mature enough to handle a real breakup.

As for your online date. You've got to calm down. I didn't think she was putting you off at all. She suggested an alternative day because the proposed week didn't work for her. She was expressing a real interest.

I think perhaps ego is getting a bit in the way. You can be knocked off your feet a little. It's normal. Don doesn't have to be tough guy who doesn't get attached all the time. It hurts when we are interested in someone and they aren't interested in us the same way. All normal human emotions!

Give this new woman a chance, and don't go assuming she is blowing you off or is broken, or whatever. She may not have job right now, but if she is a responsible woman, she is busy using that time trying to find one! If you are going to continue to date, you have to give some credit to women.

[DonH]

Great comments Ginger. I much agree with most everything. Yes, I'm used to and expect nearly everything to go if not perfectly, perfect for me. The "everything" I talk about excludes Rs of any level, where I expect to be lied to, blown off, ghosted, left. Cheating is about the only thing that has not been common. Of course these things typically only happen with those I see as a match or potential match. I tend to forget or discount those who like or are interested in me but me not them at all or as much - like the gal from Thsnksgiving nearly two years ago trying to get me to Nashville.

So what am I going to do about the cruise Joseph? Well I actually watched more videos from that "coach" and his personality aside, his advice for what to do with someone like Wild Girl is totally on. So I have a huge resolve to not contact her again. Up to this point she's never ignored a text or phone call - or very rare. I figure I'll wait at least to the end of the month if I have to. In the meantime, I'll float a trial comment about making changes and start the search again. At least now we are at three months - where I'm much more comfortable being.

My resolve is/was very firm. And what happens not hours later last night.... "OMG I am so sorry! I thought I responded to your txtd message. I was helping out at the bar with bingo and raffles when I got it and then watched my nephews Sunday night amd Monday and must have totally forgot. How are you?" Ugh seriously? If nothing else, THAT didn't take long. We proceeded to talk all night while watching the Brewers game. She seemed the most "normal" in weeks. Interesting that if I'm correct PMS should have ended on Monday. She was honest about Saturday - though no details nor do I want them. So I have no clue. But I can just feel I'm sucked back in at least slightly so. Then got a text this AM too. WTF

Who knows? Did she feel bad? Did her friends at work knock some sense into her? Was her "date" Saturday not nearly as fun as me? Did she create enough distance to release the pressure and anxiety and feel attraction again? Is this just her and this level of casual is just all she is capable of? If it's the last one, I need to adjust my response.

So what will I do? Carry on. I will for sure go meet OLD girl next week. I thought about asking Wild Girl,out - which is what the "coach" suggests - I just don't feel like it. At least not right now. Just never easy is it. Clearly the fact that I asked, she accepted, and tickets were purchased for a 10 day "date" three months from now totally complicates it - at least for me. I don't want to turn into the bad guy here. Totally hitting it off with and continuing to date OLD girl coukd change that but one thing at a time.

Amd on it hues!

[Coconut]

Is this just her and this level of casual is just all she is capable of? If it's the last one, I need to adjust my response.

I vote this one, you understandably have expectations from her due to the length you all have been seeing each other, but expectations have never been discussed much less agreed upon (has she ever actually even said ya'll are/were dating?).

Personally, I agree with backing off, I would keep some communication going (maybe a text every 2 or 3 weeks) just to keep communication channels open, I wouldn't mention the cruise until one of two things happen:
1. You have to know she isn't going so you can notify promoter (even if you don't have a replacement)
2. You want to replace her with someone else regardless of if she wants to go or not

I know you feel differently about her, but maybe change the mindset more towards booty call type relationship unless her actions start matching more closely your expectations.

[focus22]

...I expect to be lied to, blown off, ghosted, left.

Gonna throw something in here about the law of attraction...

[TBSakaJ9]

DH - Your dating coach would say that when she reaches out to make a date and if she gives you some lame excuse or says she is busy then just tell her once she figures out her schedule to give you a call. Then go dark and never look back. If/when she contacts you again ask her out again and if she makes the same lame excuse then tell her the same thing then never bring up getting together ever again. If she continues to contact you make some small talk maybe a couple of messages back and forth then tell her you have to run.

If you don't like that then never contact her again and if she reaches out to you don't respond (you can ghost her).

Or you can just call her on the phone and ask her all of these questions. I personally like the coaches recommendation as you never want to burn a bridge or back baby in a corner

[DonH]

I wouldn't mention the cruise until one of two things happen:
1. You have to know she isn't going so you can notify promoter (even if you don't have a replacement)
2. You want to replace her with someone else regardless of if she wants to go or not

Coconut, #1 is here and has been for a couple of months. We both have non-refundable, non-changeable flights. The cruise itself I think is less of a concern and I could put a different name on the cabin without too much trouble. This cruise is bigger than even I thought it would be. They are nearly sold out of the 300 cabins for the group. I've ran group cruises and I will tell you 300 cabins and nearly 700 people is HUGE. It's like 25% of the ship is this group. It's the biggest one they have ever done - likely because it has the largest number (and I'd say best) bands and musicians. So I'm not even sure what answer I'll get back if I request changes nor the cost that may be involved. They may be nice as heck, friendly, and have no problem with it. Or they might be ticked off at me to the point I'm seen as high maintenance and not worth a repeat. Or anything between the two.

#2 is a larger fear - at least recently. I thought that was where this might be going - that I'd say "see, everything happens for a reason, Wild Girl wants to back out, but look, I found someone even better to go with me!" Now, I'm not so sure. I'm starting to fear I might find someone better and then have a real dilemma on my hands. Remember, she's NOT ONCE even hinted at pulling out. That's not true of some previous dates where she said "I might have to take a rain check" and "I'm not sure this weekend will work" and "I'm still debating about coming out." She's never said ANY of that about the cruise. My fears are totally mine based on these other behaviors and her recent distance. Keep in mind, I know her parents, friends, family and they know many, many people who know me. The last thing I want happening is the word on the street being "did you hear what Don did, he asked our daughter to go on a cruise and she was so excited and then he found someone else (or spin it as found someone better) and dumped her." I've never been that kinda of guy and don't want to be. I'm betting this is the longest and most expensive trip anyone has ever taken her on. A few guys have flown her to a destination for a few days for new years, birthdays, etc. but it's a couple days at a hotel and fly back home - not a 10 day vacation. So I gave my word and my word is HUGE in my life. If I say I'm going to do something or be somewhere, I do it. And what would my excuse or reason be at this point - "she's been distant, I've not seen her for a month, she didn't respond to a text I sent" I mean, that's really the truth and it would make me look bad.

See, THIS ^^^^^^^^^^ is what a lack of communication brings to the table! It causes guessing and your mind running away with you.

Gonna throw something in here about the law of attraction...

Okay, I guess I don't get it. Or, okay please throw it in. Were you going to make more comments or was this your comment? Please explain as I'm not getting it.

Joseph9, you're a special case. I'm going to provide a separate response for you. LOL

[focus22]

...I expect to be lied to, blown off, ghosted, left.

Gonna throw something in here about the law of attraction...

The thing you said about expecting to be lied to, blown off, ghosted, left. If that's what you're expecting, then that's what you're attracting to you.

[DonH]

DH - Your dating coach would say that when she reaches out to make a date and if she gives you some lame excuse or says she is busy then just tell her once she figures out her schedule to give you a call.

Okay, so first off, he's not my dating coach and I would still strongly caution you against following some to much of his "advice" I've just softened a bit on him and concede he makes some good points. But, as I said, yes, that's exactly what he'd say to do - which is what I thought of. But, you know what, I don't want to ask her out! I just don't feel like it. She's kinda killing some of my attraction to her. I also don't want to meet up with her, not have fun, and then one or both of us will have to dread being together for 10 days. No, I don't think that will happen, but I also don't have the urge to plan a fun date or meet up with her - I just don't. I think I need some time now.

DH - If/when she contacts you again ask her out again and if she makes the same lame excuse then tell her the same thing then never bring up getting together ever again... If you don't like that then never contact her again

See, Joseph this is exactly why I'm fearful for you and how you are being robotic and trying to follow some rules or script. It's like in medicine, we have protocols, but you still have to use critical thinking because not all patients follow the rule book or fit the protocol. Yes, this coach dude would say do this but, hello, in my case I can't "never bring up getting together ever again" as we are going on a 10 day vacation together in three months! So the "protocol" or "playbook" does not apply - which is the case much of the time. This is why you have to learn to embrace these concepts but still apply them uniquely to each person and each set of circumstances.

and if she reaches out to you don't respond (you can ghost her).

OMG now this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! This is why ghosting has become the epidemic it has. I swear, I see all of these anti-bulling campaigns, I want to start and anti-ghosting campaign. It's become so common, it's happened to us, so now we not only do it ourselves but we start to suggest others ghost people as well. No, just stop that. It's not right and just because it was done to us does not make it any less wrong. Do not ghost people even if it is becoming commonplace. Be a man. Be an adult. If I need to end things with Wild Girl or anyone, I am going to be a man, tell them to their face preferably or at least on the telephone, and not just stop responding or ghost someone. I strongly encourage you to do the same. Don't Ghost!!!!!!!!!!!! And don't suggest others ghost!!!!!!!!

Or you can just call her on the phone and ask her all of these questions. I personally like the coaches recommendation as you never want to burn a bridge or back baby in a corner

Yes, now I agree - one way or another, however this ends, I will do it as an adult, up front and with class. That's who I am. I also agree just in life in general there is rarely a good reason to burn a bridge. Not sure what back baby in a corner totally means but making her look bad, etc. If I had to guess, and it's just purely a guess, we'll end up going and likely have a very good time together. After that, one of two things will happen although the end result will be the same. After 10 days together, just like after 2 days together this summer, (unless we don't have fun and lots of sex) we'll again be rather connected and on the post vacation high. I'm sure I'll be hearing from her a lot and she'll be very interested again. Or, we'll just both pretty much go our ways, perhaps still get together now and then but that's about it. I'm betting both will happen, we'll have a post high couple weeks or month but then that will kinda be it other than I'll have another FWB to go to if I need a date for something or want to go to a concert or ballgame or whatever. I'm invited to a wedding in Nashville and my niece is getting married after that, maybe I'll take her if I'm not dating someone else. But that's likely what it will be. But, that's where this all started, isn't it? Read my first comments back in June and tell me if that's not pretty much exactly what I predicted back then.

Jospeh, I think you are down deep a pretty good guy. I just think you're not sure what to do and you've read and watched so much about all of this that you're trying to apply it by like step by step and I think you've thrown out all critical thinking. I think that if someone is getting cold or distant, backing off may build attraction. For certain chasing them will not. But when you've been on one date, had fun, and then don't talk to the girl for a week or more - that DOES NOT build attraction. All that does is build confusion. That's one example of where I think you are just not applying things correctly. Life is not black and white, follow the numbers, connect the dots. There is both art and science to so many things in life. I think you are focusing on the science and starting to understand it but you just don't have the art part down. It's like two musicians reading and playing the same piece of sheet music. Both can play the notes correctly, but one has the artistic ability to bring the music to life, play from the heart, really make it sound great while the other plays the notes. Hope this is making sense. You can't always "see A therefore do B" It's not the simple! At some point you have to meld the science with your art and BE YOURSELF!