Getting Back to my Old Self

[JujuB]

Don,

I could be off base here and making stereotypical statements but here goes..

Most women (not all) are "clingy" when they really like a guy. The fact that WG is not clingy does not necessarily make her this super cool, independent female. ( She kind of sounds like a mess) i think there is the possibility that shes just not that into you. (Which we all know is not a reflection of you ) i think it could be something as superficial as age. Im talking purely from intuition and because i have a lot of honest and morally questionable female aquaintances/friends

A lot of guys really like the girl thats not into them. Archie had a hot blond chasing after him, but worshipped veronica (no i dont watch riverdale. I loved the comics) . Maybe the girl acts more natural around them, or is herself more. Or does not care much about the outcome. Makes less demands cause she is not taking them seriously.

Do you want to be taken seriously? Meaning as a serious consideration to be a life long partner to another person?

I dont know your background story on DB. Was your ex wife wayward or a walkaway? Are you at peace with the way things ended? Do you feel guilt? Have you come to terms with that guilt? Have you made amends?

My ex kept his addiction a secret from me. The way he treated me was cruel and his behaviors did serious damage to me and my son. Like focus, I have tons of stories. I dont knownifbhe understand or is capable of ever understanding just how painful his actions were. I always wonder if he will one day truly recognize this and regret it. An apology, acknowledgement would mean so much. The difference between addiction and cancer is that addiction comes with gaslighting. His gaslighting makes it hard for me to even know what actions were due to his addiction.

Again. I dont know your back ground. But could remnants of your role in your marriage, your addiction be part of why you are going for women that are not taking you seriously? Do you feel worthy of being in a relationship with someone capable of loving you?

[TBSakaJ9]

Yo DH...yeah, I am great guy. I was a great guy when I was married to my X, I just got lazy and took things for granted, that and loosing my identity along the way combined with my X's emotional needs changing was the perfect storm. I don't have any issues with who I am as a person, I can look at myself in the mirror each morning and sleep like a rock all night long.

I do think though "The Coach" is more right than wrong when it comes to this new world of dating. So "Yes" you have made a financial commitment with this woman who seems to be or is wanting to date other people which should be fine since your not exclusive (you and her I don't think have ever had the talk) but in your mind it bothers you (or seems to bother you) because you have feelings for her and might want a relationship Which is why you "need some time" because it sounds like you started to fall for her (maybe her doing this hurt you a little????). So I think taking some time is good as you don't want her to see that your mad or angry or whatever emotions you are feeling. As we all know it is never good to place expectations on people as if you do you will always be let down.

So if you want nothing more than a physical relationship, or a phone relationship (essentially and EA), until you get to the vacation then I think you are going to need to reset your expectations of WG. Take it for what it is and as the coach says "Hang out, hook up, and have fun".........if WG wants a relationship from DH then WG will bring it up

Honestly just because you have made a financial commitment doesn't mean your locked in. Yes loosing the money would be unfortunate and I really do understand but don't let that financial piece put you in a position to sacrifice your own personal values, or accept table scraps from WG, or put you in a position of just accepting whatever she gives you. Which is why I think you need to reassess your expectations of her.

[Ginger1]

I understand you spent the money on the cruise, and lord,I hate losing money too, and I know you were expected to bring someone. But the problem is , when you invite someone to something like that who is committed to you and was kind of flaky from the getgo, you run a high risk of loss. I for one, don't think you should be shaping your life and relationships right now around this cruise.

basically, I completely echo what J said in his last paragraph.

[kml]

Well it's mpre complex than that around the cruise, right, Don? The money comes from the company that hired the band, but if Don shows up without a date then he's the guy who wangled his way into having his own room by himself instead of sharing with a bandmate and that looks kinda bad. I get it.

But seems like the solution, IF it came to her bailing which I actually doubt will be the case, is to just pony up for a new gal's plane fare, which seems a small investment and something you can afford. So I'd just quit worrying about it.

I DO think Joseph is on the money though about you having caught feelings for WG. Truthfully, if it was just casual for you too you wouldn't be pulling back now - you're doing so to protect your feelings. That's ok. Just be aware, that it's possible that you are actually ready for a relationship again - maybe not living together or marriage, but a steady monogamous dating thing. If so, you'll need to turn your attention to likely candidates.

[DonH]

Well it's more complex than that around the cruise, right, Don? The money comes from the company that hired the band, but if Don shows up without a date then he's the guy who wangled his way into having his own room by himself instead of sharing with a bandmate and that looks kinda bad. I get it.u'll need to turn your attention to like

OMG, KML thank you for bringing me back off the ledge and keeping me from losing my shlt LOL. I've been trying to explain this concept here for over six months now - must be a dozen times I've tried, yet it's clearly a difficult concept to understand - I guess if you're not in the business. But yes, exactly as KML said - it's more complex - she 100% nailed why. And if it was my money - seriously, giving up nearly $2,000?????? - KML, do you see what I mean how you and I look at money TOTALLY differently than much of the world and how the fact that I might be financially secure means little to most women.

Just be aware, that it's possible that you are actually ready for a relationship again - maybe not living together or marriage, but a steady monogamous dating thing. If so, you'll need to turn your attention to likely candidates

Ding Ding Ding and I think we have a winner! JuJu you asked so many questions that I'm going to try to answer later but you made the comment of she is just not that into you. Well the "problem is" she totally was. That seemed to have changed a month or so ago and is less so now - clearly. I came into this with the totally right mindset. My bottom line feelings about her have never changed in that she's not a LTR contender - never was - very likely never will be. But it was many of you that said, well why not? Give her a chance, etc. And I did and as Ginger and others pointed out we got much much closer as she was very into me. Read back through everything I wrote and that was as clear then as it is the other way now. Her being that into me I'm sure increased my interest and attraction towards her. I was having way more fun that I ever though I would and enjoying things more than I ever thought.

So right along those lines, yes, I have warmed to the idea of exactly what KML stated:

"maybe not living together or marriage, but a steady monogamous dating thing."

I think that's what I'm kinda waking up to here - that I guess I do want exactly what KML is suggesting. Wild Girl is not the girl to do that with. But until I find that person, Wild Girl can still be fun to do things with. We just need to get over whatever bump we hit this past month and then I need to stay in the right mindset. Now, if she does disrespect me or anything of the sort, trust me, I will not kiss her butt (or anyone's) That will not happen.

As we all know it is never good to place expectations on people as if you do you will always be let down.

Really Joseph? That's what it's come to? And I guess I don't totally disagree with you but wow, what a sad world and a sad life if this statement really is true.

I do think though "The Coach" is more right than wrong when it comes to this new world of dating.

He might be, but then that's why I want less and less to do with this "new world of dating." If ghosting is the norm, accepted and the right thing to do, I guess I don't want to be a part of it. I think this coach will help you find the wrong women - the ones that will turn into WAW and WW. The ones that will cheat on you, play you, etc. He will teach you how to beat them at their own game. If so, then his rules will land that girl. I just don't want to land that type of girl.

___________________________________________

So I had another night of communication with Wild Girl last night that was again pretty close to normal. So I continue to agree with KML that she's clearly not thinking of bailing at this time and as we get closer, unless I've completely mis-assessed her including my connections and ties to her family, she won't wait until it's too late to do that. So, really, it appears I have EXACTLY what I THOUGHT I wanted - someone to go on the cruise as well as hang out with occasionally - or as you guys keep saying, hang out, have fun and hook up with. I just need to not get sucked back in - and since I'm rather good at learning lessons, I don't think I will again. And it would appear, the less interested I am, the more comfortable Wild Girl is. It's a win-win.

In the meantime, it's getting more and more clear to me, as KML stated, that I may want more from someone. Perhaps it will be with OLD girl, or with the friend of a friend dean of nursing or with someone I've not yet met. Sadly, I know me and just like how I was wrong about what I thought I wanted before - then got - then wanted more anyhow, I could be wrong again when i get the new things I think I want. Or perhaps I just want what I don't currently have? Who knows but the past seems to be towards that. I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

As for now, I'm in a much better place than I was a week ago, including being more optimistic about things. Let's hope it holds. I've got to get some work done here and then I'll tackle JuJus questions - because she took the time to ask.

[LH19]

DH,

I want to start by saying J9 was mistaken when he suggested the coach would tell you to ghost someone. He would not, he clearly teaches that when someone is not meeting your needs or offers different terms in a relationship (ie lovers to just friends) you need to communicate to them in a loving way that that is not acceptable to you. If the other person is not willing to meet your needs or come to an agreement on relationship terms that are acceptable to you, then you need to walk away and never look back. You keep the door open by saying if you change your mind then give me a call.

Now what happened to you with WG would have been prevented if you read the book. Coach teaches that until a woman is in love with you and you are in an exclusive relationship, the phone is used for making dates. Those 3-4 hour phone calls you were having are a no no. You are not her therapist, gay male girlfriend or her emotional tampon. (sorry his words). By having these phone calls she knows everything about you which takes away the mystery and excitement. Let's face it Don everything probably became predictable and boring. How long do you think that would last with a girl you nicked named wild girl?

Look I know you are skeptical but I think you would agree you need a new strategy. Like Einstein said " the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Or what coach says "if you keep doing what you have been doing you will keep getting what you have been getting".

That's something to think about.

[TBSakaJ9]

LOL.......L is right, the coach would never suggest that and if I said that then I was clearly mistaken. It is clear that I need to go back and read his book another time .

[Ginger1]

"emotional tampon"

That's a new one I may have to use.

[Dawn70]

OMG, KML thank you for bringing me back off the ledge and keeping me from losing my shlt LOL. I've been trying to explain this concept here for over six months now - must be a dozen times I've tried, yet it's clearly a difficult concept to understand - I guess if you're not in the business. But yes, exactly as KML said - it's more complex - she 100% nailed why. And if it was my money - seriously, giving up nearly $2,000?????? - KML, do you see what I mean how you and I look at money TOTALLY differently than much of the world and how the fact that I might be financially secure means little to most women.

No, it's not that difficult a concept to get, Don...even for those of us who are not "in the business". Seems pretty cut and dried actually: the company hires you and provides you with airfare and cruise "passes" and you provide names to occupy those spots (yours and your guest). If your provided name (guest) backs out last minute, you look bad because it looks like you were trying to get one over one someone and have a room to yourself which would seem to scream diva behavior, I would imagine. And, not being a musician, I can WELL imagine that many musicians do NOT want to be viewed as so-called divas because you would get a reputation for being difficult to work with and that would not be good for your earnings or future earnings.

As far as the financially secure thing...I'm glad you clarified that being that way means little to MOST women, because I can assure you that there are some of us in this world who value that way at the top of the list of things we are looking for, not necessarily because we want to be taken care of financially but because we've spent our own lives handling our own sh!t and we don't want to have to take care of someone else. I don't mind being an equal partner in the care-taking in a relationship, but I don't expect a man to financially support me nor am I willing to totally support a man, period. As far as "giving up money", if I was in WG's position, I would do absolutely EVERYTHING in my power to still go on that trip regardless, because if I backed out after I had allowed you to commit me to it (thus committing your own reputation to it), I'd feel like I owed whatever money had to be paid back or put out to make the necessary changes. I'm sure not many people feel that way either, but it was drilled in my head from a very young age to pay my own way in life and I would be damned if I would put someone else between a rock and hard place financially just because I was fickle.

I think that people sorely undervalue those sorts (financial security, loyalty, the value of giving your word, etc.) of things these days in our fast-paced, microwave, gotta have it now, instant gratification society. It's totally insane. But, while I thoroughly enjoy my job, I do earn a salary for doing it and I plan to protect that salary to the best of my ability to give myself the things that I need and the things that I want. It isn't on any man (or any other person for that matter) to do that for me.

[Dawn70]

DH,

I want to start by saying J9 was mistaken when he suggested the coach would tell you to ghost someone. He would not, he clearly teaches that when someone is not meeting your needs or offers different terms in a relationship (ie lovers to just friends) you need to communicate to them in a loving way that that is not acceptable to you. If the other person is not willing to meet your needs or come to an agreement on relationship terms that are acceptable to you, then you need to walk away and never look back. You keep the door open by saying if you change your mind then give me a call.

Now what happened to you with WG would have been prevented if you read the book. Coach teaches that until a woman is in love with you and you are in an exclusive relationship, the phone is used for making dates. Those 3-4 hour phone calls you were having are a no no. You are not her therapist, gay male girlfriend or her emotional tampon. (sorry his words). By having these phone calls she knows everything about you which takes away the mystery and excitement. Let's face it Don everything probably became predictable and boring. How long do you think that would last with a girl you nicked named wild girl?

Look I know you are skeptical but I think you would agree you need a new strategy. Like Einstein said " the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Or what coach says "if you keep doing what you have been doing you will keep getting what you have been getting".

That's something to think about.

I still don't understand what is wrong with phone calls. I absolutely do NOT want to speak for Don nor am I trying to but it seemed to me when he was talking about those phone calls, they were occurring primarily because there was a distance between he and WG physically (as in they don't live in the same town) and they weren't seeing each other in person and therefore were communicating by phone. I mean, I get you and J9 are saying this dating coach that y'all are a fan of says this is a no-no, but if Don and WG were both into it and it was working for them, who cares what the dating coach says?

I like texting and phone calls and no that doesn't mean I'm using whoever I'm talking to as my therapist. I don't need to do that. I just like the idle "how was your day" chit chat and witty banter when I know I won't likely see someone for a few days. As I said on my own post the other day, maybe I'm the weird one. Maybe I'm just some sort of odd freak, but I just think if 2 ADULTS have something that is working for them, some arbitrary dating advice shouldn't matter.