I agree with job. You will not get closure with a divorce.
I am currently looking at my feelings, thoughts, and beliefs regarding marriage, standing, divorce, vows, etc... So it is interesting we are discussing closure.
I think unless there is piecing and reconciliation, closure is many years away. We will just not get the answers that will satisfy us. The MLCer has trouble with their justifications, so how could we find closure with those reasons.
As job said some push this through really quick, like my W 2 months. Others take forever, like OneArt’s H, I think he is pushing 7 or 8 years and still not done.
As to a timeline. I do think they believe they have a timeline and are making these well planned decisions, until they start to see things a bit different. That unfortunately takes a while, if it ever happens. Also with their swiss cheese minds time does seem to travel different for them. Depression eats away time from the, and I am suspecting that “whoever” is in control only senses time, or at least a good portion of it. When / if they wake it will be Rip Van Winkle for them.
So pushing for closure in my opinion is futile, we work on acceptance, closure will happen later.
I like your view on this, she wants the divorce let her do the work. Unless you need some protection or such there is no point in speeding things along, and no point in being a roadblock, just go with what she is doing - in your own time.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for your perspective, DnJ. I guess by my wife saying she is working on the divorce decree but has not specific timeline, I feel like this is a death by 1000 cuts. Now she asks me to change my mailing address, which is fine, but seems more and more as if she is moving on. Fine, I say to myself, then finalize the divorce. Instead it is this ask but then not having a timeline. I am certainly much better now with detachment and have been able to really focus on other things, but her timeline does not help well with 4 kids; 2 of which are too young to understand, and 2 of which have been through this before, and I think are beginning to wonder why their stepmum is not around anymore. This will really be evident when all the kids and me are together for Christmas, and she is not there. I do not even know what excuse I can make for them then, and I really dont need my ex wife from previous marriage to cause more harm when she hears of this... I will try to take this as it comes, but I feel I deserve to know from her when she wants this divorce done. This is completely selfish on her part and I continue to remain in limbo!
Yep, DnJ is right. I am something like 7 or 8 years into this. He remained at home for the first 5. Fighting his compulsion to cheat and to go (ok, not fighting the whole time since he was having an affair for more than the last 3). Forget the notion of timelines. Forget trying to pin your hopes or your thoughts to some magical hour. Unless you want to take control yourself, but then they can still stall as Job says.
Take your eyes off her altogether. Focus on you and the kids, and your happiness. Live the life now you will live once you have closure, because as DnJ says, you won't get it from her and it will be a long time coming.
Who cares what your ex-wife thinks. I bet her life isn't all that either. You live your life. Focus on the stuff you control. Let go of the rest. L I V E. Don't wait.
I understand how that timeline is like waiting for the other show to drop, it is so stressful. Listen to OneArt, take your eyes off her and focus on you and kids, and your happiness.
If you are not going to push the D along, and I believe that you are of that mindset, then it will happen when it happens whether you are focused on it or not - is up to W. So choose to not focus on her, it is less stressful.
Originally Posted by black8
I will try to take this as it comes, but I feel I deserve to know from her when she wants this divorce done. This is completely selfish on her part and I continue to remain in limbo!
Oh how very true. Of course she is selfish - she is in MLC, it is all about her.
Originally Posted by black8
This will really be evident when all the kids and me are together for Christmas, and she is not there. I do not even know what excuse I can make for them then...
In my opinion, do not make excuses, do not cover things up too much - of course be age appropriate. Children are much smarter and observant than we give them credit for. If you have ever swore by mistake in front of a child, oh my that is the one word they suddenly learn to perfection and know exactly when, where, why, and who they learnt it from.
I know it is difficult. Excuses will only work for so long and then they will find out, then what? I think things will then be a lot more difficult.
If you want you could share some ideas of what you might say to kids on how to break the ice. This is a pretty good place to bat around ideas if you want to give it a try.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for the perspective, DnJ and OneArt. Possible thing to say at Christmas is: Your stepmom and I want to spend sometime apart. We are not divorced, but we could be in the future or we may get back together. Hopefully, things get better with us. What we do agree on and what is most important is that we love you.
This when groupthinking really shines. Different versions of your message, while keeping the spirit and intent the same. Some minor changes and a few tweaks until you are satistified. It is not to optimize the wording - it is for you to figure out and understand what you really are trying to say to your kids.
I’ll start.
A good message, with good sprit, maybe deliver it before Christmas not on Christmas. Try not to have bad news on Christmas Day.
From what you have wrote I would accent the following thoughts from your original.
Make the message really about their view, how it affects them, the big focus is that you love them and they are not at fault. Remember kids think the world revolves round them.
I would also suggest for the time apart sentence using need instead of want. I do not think you want to be apart, I do however think you see a need for the two of you to be apart. Your kids will not see all the subtleties of this but they will see needs vs want.
Kids, your stepmom and I are having some problems and need to spend some time apart. I want you to know that you are not responsibly in anyway, our problems are strictly between us. You kids are the best and most important people to us and we both love you very much. I know this is upsetting for you. I am here for you and you can talk to me any time you want. I love you very much.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I agree w/DnJ, you don't want to give this type of news on Christmas Day. If you actually need to do this, do it before Christmas so that the news has time to sink in and allow them to adjust to the "new" norm.
DnJ's suggestions are spot on and changing the word "want" to "need" is much better.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
This is fabulous advice and I will tell them as prescribed. THANK YOU. I think they will probably follow up with asking if we are getting divorced. Eldest have been through it so they know. Thoughts on that? Also, for OneArt and those who have survived for so long; did you ever feel as that though your spouse has been in MLC mode and separated from you so long that you do not see how they can want to come back because they have become accustomed to life without you? How do you rationalize them coming back and actually being able to connect with you again? I see this window fading from me over time.
It is exceedingly difficult to answer your own children’s pointed questions, do not shy away they need answers if you do not provide they will make them up. Now some topics are off limits or not of their concern and you should let them know when they ask. Other topics need answers that are age appropriate. It is your job to ensure they always feel safe enough to come to you with any questions, and to provide or find answers.
You are tasked with leading by example, they are watching and learning - open, honest, and compassionate seems to be a pretty good start for a role model.
Yes, they will most likely ask if you are getting a divorce. With the eldest ones already having been through it, and of course all the kids talk to each other, your answer will be known to all.
I would like to illustrate a concept with an example:
An honest answer to the divorce question is - I don’t know. I do not want to get a divorce, but it takes two people to make a marriage work.
Now that may seem like a good answer. However it is not. It blames their Mom for the divorce. More accurately you would be blaming their Mom with an answer like that. Not much good will come from that. Kids will resent Mom and then start to resent you for attacking Mom.
One of the hardest tasks you face is not damaging your kids relationship with their Mom. It is not your job to falicitate or repair it, however it is your job not to destroy or damage it.
So my suggestion for an answer, build on what you have already said.
Mom and I are discussing our problems and have only decided we need some time apart. If we decide to get divorced I promise I will tell you.
Those are some thoughts, I hope they resonate with you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I am sorry if my response disappoints you. I really do not want it to. But I am not expecting to take my H back. I do believe, and always have, that he will try again to come back, but I believe that I am done, that the damage is too great. For me, it is not really about the time, it is more about the boundaries he crossed and the abandonment of my children. My son in particular.
If you can, see if you can google divorcebusting and Happy_Again. There is a kink in the search from some purged threads and it might send your computer spinning if you try to look from the search bar. He was a real deal MLCer who posted in the midst of his rage against his wife. Only some of his stuff has been preserved. He also had one other screen name but I don't think there is anything there that is as helpful.
He said things that I heard directly from my H's mouth and he expressed thoughts that I'm certain my H has had. But you know what? His wife stopped responding to his nastiness and his freak outs. He actually described the process, in real time, of trying to make her mad to prove that she was still the same miserable, awful wife he thought she was. He described himself that as she did not respond, that the anger that he felt for her began to subside. When that anger began to subside, you could see how much he missed her, and his family and the life he knew.
He went back to her and I think they made it work. But his are the most real and raw expressions from an MLCer I have seen anywhere. I just read them again to remind myself.
I think I've told you this before, but I think 3-4 years from BD or move-out for attempted returns (if they are made at all) is not unusual. Only you can decide how much time is too much. Only you can decide how much distance is too great.
What I will say is that yes, he has been out and gone for 2 years, but he has not done much that I can see to work on himself. I still see the OW, the substance abuse (I assume) and the disordered and mean way he treats me. With this behavior, it wouldn't matter if it was 10 years or 10 minutes. I deserve better than that and will never walk on eggshells for anyone ever again.
The truth is that I am also not done working on me. I haven't addressed the two biggest issues that I believe I need to face. I have improved as a human being in so many ways, but I have more work to do. I am in no hurry for anything. It is not time that concerns me. It is growth and change and rebirth.
