Whirlwind of hurt

[Again18]

TF deep breath. I read a post today from an archive and it was from an LBS who was able to reconcile with his WAW. Here's what he said:

My wife and I have talked a lot about what was going on in our minds through the separation. I was positive through this period that she had written us off, she was not thinking about me and was out having a good time. In fact, she was continually thinking about us and working through issues in her mind. Don't believe what they say to you, it is soooo different from what is going on in their minds.

Your wife may not be going out and having a good time but still what you may not realize is that she is thinking about all these issues in her mind. Now if you are constantly telling her that her decision isn't the right one she will rationalize it in her mind that it is. For example, she says the D will be good for both of you. You say maybe it will be. Now instead of her thinking of how she can convince you that it will, she doesn't have to think that at all, but she's still thinking and now the rational side of the brain starts to kick in and she starts thinking uhm will it be good for us? You actually are disarming her by not engaging in the R talks. You give her space to think it through her issues while you continue to do your own thing to improve improve improve. Give her something she wants to come back to.

You're very early in this so hang in there.

Update on my situation. W and I haven't talked about our R for a while. not distant but not close either. I don't get any text messages or emails or phone calls during the days or while at work. I get the ILY on the phone and when she leaves and I know she does but I'm pretty sure I'm in the ILY but ILYBNILWY category. She did mention a trip out of town this week where we can have a date night dinner thing. We'll see how that goes. But TF I know you would give your left arm to at least to be in my place right now, but that isn't possible so keep working at it. I was where you were at one time and at least I have what I have now and I have no regrets. Knowing what I know now and doing this again still made the last 14 years and two more children more than worth it.

[DavidUK]

Thanks for the info AnotherStander. I ordered the ebook.

On another note for all the DBs out there. When the wife BD me she went to her parents to see if they could buy her a house or give her a loan so she could buy a house and get out pronto. They said no. Anyway my MIL was sending my wife houses to look at shortly after. Pushing her to live in a certain area. I went and had a heart to heart with the inlaws after BD to let them know I didn't want the D and we talked about being in each others lives, etc, etc.

I asked them out of respect for myself, for their grandchildren, and for any hope for the marriage to please only give their daughter moral support, and not to be involved because it just pushes the D faster. They both agreed that this was what is best. However, my wife told me my MIL is back at it trying to find houses for my wife this time she is listening to my MIL. The MIL just wants to get back into my wife's good graces, but she is also enabling and can be very controlling. Should I let it go, talk to the MIL, or talk to my FIL hoping he can put and end to it? I just dont need familial influence pushing things faster because my wife is hurting.

If my wife has to hit rock bottom to figure it out I can see the MIL doing everything she can to cushion or prevent that.

I found out that my W bought a house with MIL and FIL 2 years ago and they didn't tell me. W has now moved into that house. They were also helping W to hide money before BD.

[Twofeet]

TF deep breath. I read a post today from an archive and it was from an LBS who was able to reconcile with his WAW. Here's what he said:

My wife and I have talked a lot about what was going on in our minds through the separation. I was positive through this period that she had written us off, she was not thinking about me and was out having a good time. In fact, she was continually thinking about us and working through issues in her mind. Don't believe what they say to you, it is soooo different from what is going on in their minds.

Your wife may not be going out and having a good time but still what you may not realize is that she is thinking about all these issues in her mind. Now if you are constantly telling her that her decision isn't the right one she will rationalize it in her mind that it is. For example, she says the D will be good for both of you. You say maybe it will be. Now instead of her thinking of how she can convince you that it will, she doesn't have to think that at all, but she's still thinking and now the rational side of the brain starts to kick in and she starts thinking uhm will it be good for us? You actually are disarming her by not engaging in the R talks. You give her space to think it through her issues while you continue to do your own thing to improve improve improve. Give her something she wants to come back to.

You're very early in this so hang in there.

Update on my situation. W and I haven't talked about our R for a while. not distant but not close either. I don't get any text messages or emails or phone calls during the days or while at work. I get the ILY on the phone and when she leaves and I know she does but I'm pretty sure I'm in the ILY but ILYBNILWY category. She did mention a trip out of town this week where we can have a date night dinner thing. We'll see how that goes. But TF I know you would give your left arm to at least to be in my place right now, but that isn't possible so keep working at it. I was where you were at one time and at least I have what I have now and I have no regrets. Knowing what I know now and doing this again still made the last 14 years and two more children more than worth it.

Again18,

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I feel like I am doing well then I hit a road bump and causes me to swerve on the road a bit before I can get control of myself. Each time it feels like I recover faster. Her jabs hurt, but they hurt less as time goes on. Some of my possessions (not the heirlooms) I would have never though of getting rid of and now I am of the mindset that they are just things. I can get rid of things, I can always get new things. I have moments and memories of better times and I don't have to let go of those. They will be cherished.

This whole sitch just is the worse. I know is a marathon and not a sprint. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemies. There are times alone when I am processing my emotions, and man it just physically hurts. I am seeking answers when there aren't any to be had at this moment in time. So I pray everyday for myself, my wife, my kids, our families and everyone on this forum. I will fight for my marriage, and I will fight for myself and my children. If the M ends and there is never any hope of R then I will still fight for myself and my kids.

I wish I had some advice for your sitch, but like you said I would give an arm to be in a place similar to yours. You have the ability to work on your MR. The only time the W even talks to me is briefly in the morning and a little bit in the evening. Never about much other than the kids, plans/schedules or divorce related items. Occasionally a temp check which I am usually pretty good and handling. So I am just standing here being the lighthouse and I see her drifting and its definitely getting worse. I really hope you and your W can work through this again and I hope you can evaluate yourself to see what brought you back into your sitch again.

One last note. After BD I quit trying to figure out what my wife is thinking. She is just an enigma, I see glimpses of her old self and maybe those cause her to doubt her decisions. However, she is still just an enigma.

[AnotherStander]

So I looked at her who gets what list tonight. It's supposed to be 50/50, but she is basically trying to dump stuff on my list so she can cash out or force me to sell it and still cash out.

OK well it was just the first pass. Here's how these things work- she proposes a division. If you don't agree with it you counter-propose. The two of you work back and forth until either a resolution is reached or you agree you can't reach one and elect to go to mediation instead (or to court, which is the expensive route). Stop and take a deep breath. Look at this as nothing more than a business transaction. Quit looking at it like she's trying to "dump" on you, or "force" you or whatever. She can't force you to do anything, all she can do is offer a proposal that you can accept, reject or counter.

Look I know this is difficult, I went through it too. But I did exactly what I said above- handled it like a business transaction. I asked my ex to make a list, we made an appointment to sit down and discuss it, we went through it item by item and negotiated the details. And we came to an agreement that we both felt was reasonable. Neither side leaves a marriage "whole", you're both going to lose things. Try to detach and look at it like a mediator would and decide what is fair.

She is saying she needs a downpayment for a new house ( not like I don't need a downpayment as well) and needs a new car. The new car is BS her car is barely 2 years old. She says my 8 year old suv is nicer. It's not but you can't argue with a WW/WAW.

You're getting all wound up on stuff that doesn't matter. Your response to her should be "we are here to equally divide our assets in a fair manner, I don't care what you plan on doing with your half of the proceeds, that's not my concern. Let's stay focused on the task at hand." Right? She's probably trying to build her case that she "needs" more than half the assets but that isn't how this works. You divide up assets regardless of what your post-D living expenses are going to be.

So, on the list some of the things are mine, but I don't want them so I tell her she wants this D so she has to sell it.

Why is she responsible for selling your things? If they are your things then YOU either keep them or sell them. There is marital property that has to be divided up, and then there is property that belongs to each of you separate from the M. Marital property is split, personal property is not.

She says TF you are just trying to screw me over, you can just take this stuff and take less of my retirement in payment.

Didn't you say that you have retirement savings as well, and it's basically a wash? She keeps hers and you keep yours? If so then tell her that. That might alleviate a lot of her frustration.

Her parents through the course of the marriage gave me some items that belong to my FIL and GFIL(RIP). They are heirloom items that I am to keep in the family. Well she wants me to buy her half or sell them. I say these items are to be passed on to our kids. She doesn't care. So I say I am returning these back to her parents if I can't afford to buy them. I refuse to sell them.

There were some things my in-laws gave me during the M that my ex felt belonged to her since we were D'ing. The thing is, she was right. The in-laws gave them to me as a good faith gesture that we would be married for good and the items would be passed down. But we didn't stay married and I didn't argue about it, I let her keep those items. I do agree with your gesture that it would be better to give them back to the in-laws than sell them though.

I guess I am still surprised by the new looks of anger, resentment, lack of respect dare I say hatred my wife shows me. Even during our biggest most heated fights I never felt the heat she is bringing.

Are you sure this isn't going both ways though? It sounds to me like there's a lot of fire going both directions. You can't control her but you CAN control you. And when you can control yourself and stay calm while she's raging, it will change her perception of who you are.

[Twofeet]

So, on the list some of the things are mine, but I don't want them so I tell her she wants this D so she has to sell it.

Why is she responsible for selling your things? If they are your things then YOU either keep them or sell them. There is marital property that has to be divided up, and then there is property that belongs to each of you separate from the M. Marital property is split, personal property is not.

We are a community property state. All personal property purchased during the marriage is owned by both parties. I guess I don't want to delay the D, but I don't want to do the legwork. Maybe this is just one of those things I need to do.

She says TF you are just trying to screw me over, you can just take this stuff and take less of my retirement in payment.

Didn't you say that you have retirement savings as well, and it's basically a wash? She keeps hers and you keep yours? If so then tell her that. That might alleviate a lot of her frustration.

Its not a wash. She has made more than me in our careers her retirement reflects this. Her career is higher paying higher risk while mine has been less paying, but extremely stable even though both require similar levels of education. The lawyers I consulted with said I should split the retirements so we walk away equal. We supported each other in our M and our careers which allowed us to get where we are.

Her parents through the course of the marriage gave me some items that belong to my FIL and GFIL(RIP). They are heirloom items that I am to keep in the family. Well she wants me to buy her half or sell them. I say these items are to be passed on to our kids. She doesn't care. So I say I am returning these back to her parents if I can't afford to buy them. I refuse to sell them.

There were some things my in-laws gave me during the M that my ex felt belonged to her since we were D'ing. The thing is, she was right. The in-laws gave them to me as a good faith gesture that we would be married for good and the items would be passed down. But we didn't stay married and I didn't argue about it, I let her keep those items. I do agree with your gesture that it would be better to give them back to the in-laws than sell them though.

I told her she can have those items to be passed down, but she would rather sell them or that is what she is thinking at this point. Hence I would rather give them back to keep them in the family.

I guess I am still surprised by the new looks of anger, resentment, lack of respect dare I say hatred my wife shows me. Even during our biggest most heated fights I never felt the heat she is bringing.

Are you sure this isn't going both ways though? It sounds to me like there's a lot of fire going both directions. You can't control her but you CAN control you. And when you can control yourself and stay calm while she's raging, it will change her perception of who you are.

I do stay calm and we are trying to work this out. If I can't stay calm I tell her I need to bow out for a moment or ask if we can talk about whatever the topic is at another time. I think what the disconnect is would be that I am expressing what I feel on the inside to this community. Its not what she is seeing.


Lastly, If I need to I could just give in an walkway from all this. Likely, if I didn't have children I might just give her what she wanted and drop the rope. However, I am trying to do this with my children's best interest and how I can take care of them to the best of my abilities. I probably need to rethink on how to handle this.

[Twofeet]

Quick question. Anyone have a WAS/WS that won't look you in the eyes when they talk? Today this is my W new thing and I don't know what to make of it. I respond like normal and look at her even though she is always looking away. It's weird and I don't know it means if anything.

[LH19]

GUILT

[Twofeet]

Well yesterday she refused to look at me when she talked to me. This morning she was in a good mood, talkative and looking me in the eye when she talked. She did mention she didn't trust me anymore (not the first time since bd) wrt splitting assets. I validate her feelings, let her know I just want to be fair and equitable so it works out best for both of us. Then I keep carrying on with my morning. She thanks me for taking care of the kids today and heads out early.
She is a roller coaster, but at least the ups are easier to deal with.

She looked so good this morning I just wanted to tell her how beautiful she is. Can't do it though, don't want to pursuit, need to DB.

[lost8]

Oh guilt big time.....it is so obvious and there are times when I make my WW look at me so she can feel the pain. They know it, they just want to ignore and repress their actions.

[ballast]

Quick question. Anyone have a WAS/WS that won't look you in the eyes when they talk? Today this is my W new thing and I don't know what to make of it. I respond like normal and look at her even though she is always looking away. It's weird and I don't know it means if anything.

Yep! After my W left any time she came to pick up D, she could not look me in the eyes. We're so bad we haven't even seen each other in like 4 months. Can't even remember the last time.

Guilt/anxiety/something else you'll have absolutely no clue on...