Whirlwind of hurt

[Twofeet]

Thanks for the info AnotherStander. I ordered the ebook.

On another note for all the DBs out there. When the wife BD me she went to her parents to see if they could buy her a house or give her a loan so she could buy a house and get out pronto. They said no. Anyway my MIL was sending my wife houses to look at shortly after. Pushing her to live in a certain area. I went and had a heart to heart with the inlaws after BD to let them know I didn't want the D and we talked about being in each others lives, etc, etc.

I asked them out of respect for myself, for their grandchildren, and for any hope for the marriage to please only give their daughter moral support, and not to be involved because it just pushes the D faster. They both agreed that this was what is best. However, my wife told me my MIL is back at it trying to find houses for my wife this time she is listening to my MIL. The MIL just wants to get back into my wife's good graces, but she is also enabling and can be very controlling. Should I let it go, talk to the MIL, or talk to my FIL hoping he can put and end to it? I just dont need familial influence pushing things faster because my wife is hurting.

If my wife has to hit rock bottom to figure it out I can see the MIL doing everything she can to cushion or prevent that.

[Davide]

Stop trying to control your wife.

Don't talk to HER family any more about the R. Of course they are going to support their daughter, that is just the way things go. Any attempt on your part to insert yourself in their relationship is going to blow up in your face, and your W will resent you for it.

[Twofeet]

I read you loud and clear. Glad for these forums.

[Twofeet]

I had a real gutcheck tonight. Wife wanted to start a list to divide assets, etc. tonight. I told her I was truthfully too tired to do it tonight. She proceeded to tell me what she thought as far as who should get what. Then she started talking retirement and said she was pissed that I should get half her retirement. She earned every bit of that, advanced in her career while having 3 kids not because of me, but INSPITE of me and its BS that she should have to share it.
I tried validating her emotions, but she was crying and I think she is to far gone to care. (Btw I too have retirement it's just that I have always had the super stable but less earning career. So our retirements upon divorce would be evened out.) Anyway she goes on to tell me she has been planning the divorce on and off since the first year of marriage it just took 13 years to make up her mind.
I try validating her emotions, but I feel like it's not getting through to her and at the same time in my head I am thinking ouch that hurts. How selfish do you have to be to think that. I credit her for all my accomplishments, but she feels like she did it on her own dragging me as dead weight. I could have easily argued her statements, but what's the point in that. I know I kept my composure, but damn that hurt. That was definitely a " it's going to get worse before it gets better" moment. I know DB is to help me, but that moment definitely felt there is no chance in hell for a reconciliation.

[ovrrnbw]

I thought you were too tired? If so, and she doesn't listen to that, you take action. Get up and leave.

Validating her getting mad about the retirement was good.

Validating is not about getting through to someone. You're just listening and understanding while acknowledge their feelings as legitimate.

She is going to throw you under the bus a lot through this process, whether the marriage is saved or not. So get some thick skin.

Not arguing with her is smart, there's nothing to gain from it at all.

A lot of WAS's do what happened to you tonight, so take it with a grain of salt. Next time she brings it up, just tell her to draft it herself and you'll pass it along to your lawyer when the time comes. Have you spoken to a few lawyers?

[Twofeet]

I allowed myself to get drawn into the conversation. I should have walked away.
I feel like my skin has thickened and what she said didn't even get a reaction from me. Regardless, it was hurtful and was a mental check for me.
I have spoken to a lawyer and have one I can use if things go downhill. Currently we are planning on settling this through mediation with a lawyer/mediator that doesn't not represent either party.

[Again18]

TF, you're doing great man. I went through this in 2003. At the time had a 2-year-old daughter and a 5-year-old boy. My wife told me she didn't think she ever loved me. When I asked if there was even one redeeming thing about me. She thought long and hard and then said something I'm embarrassed to even mention, but here it goes, she said I didn't leave skidmarks in my underwear. Wow! Not that I held a job of respect in the community, made sure the house and yard were well taken care of, that I took care of the kids while she worked, made dinners and kept the house clean. That I performed preventive maintenance on the vehicles and even repaired them when I was able to. Not only on the vehicles but around the house too. No, I didn't leave skidmarks in my underwear. It hurt, she had no respect for me whatsoever.

TF notice I said my wife, we are still married to this day. She BD me in January 2003. We went to counseling and then she told the counselor in July she wanted a D. By the end of the month I had moved out and she even found me a new place to live in October with a year's lease. After Christmas, she told me again D was inevitable. I told her I never wanted the D but she could do that paperwork and I would look it over. By this time she had sold our home and we separated what little profit there was. She was moving on with her life and I was moving on with mine. Saw her and the kids almost every day. One night she had me over for dinner and she sat across from me and asked if she could hold off on the D. I told her for now fine but I wouldn't do this indefinitely. March of 2004 she asked me to come home.

But here I am back here again. Probably because I lost sight of what marriage is about. I'm too reading No More Mister Nice Guy. Because I feel that everything I do for my wife and family deserves respect and admiration and love and affection and intimacy and well you get my drift. It's taking me years to finally understand that I put my whole family under this covert contract to recognize me for all my good deeds and thinking my good deeds makes me who I am. And it doesn't we aren't our good deeds, in fact, most of the time their failure of recognition of our covert contracts makes us a tyrant and that is what they recognize us for. I have to remind myself every day that the things I do aren't for them, there for me. they can appreciate it or not that's up to them. My wife is noticing these changes in me.

Right now she is very unsure of our future or if she even wants to remain married. I'm sure this has been going on for a while but it came to a head this past April when I finally sat down and said what is going on. She told me she hasn't felt a connection with me for a while. My first instinct was to get angry because hell we had been through all of this before and I felt we've had a better connection the last year then we have had in our entire marriage. But I did notice that the last few months I had been feeling a lot of pressure and anxiety about us as well. The next night after the kids went to bed I told my wife I completely understand why she feels there is no connection and told her how I had been manipulating and controlling our entire marriage and could completely understand why would want out. I told her I knew she loved me and she appreciated everything I do around the house and for her and the kids. Later she admitted she had everything planned out to leave me around the first of May. I had no idea. The BD was coming but somehow I noticed before it dropped. After these talks, she was saying she could actually see us having a future again. The R talks seemed to be productive and we seemed back on track. But then a few months ago I noticed her more reluctant to talk about the R and so I said to her one night I know you want out and all I got was dead silence. A comment a few days later about feeling crowded hit home. That's when I started detaching. Give her space and time. Yes, it [censored] but I'm reading a lot and working on myself and for the most part right now I've avoided the BD although I don't think I'm out of the woods either.

But Danm TF you really are an inspiration. I backslid so many times I have no idea other than by the grace of God how my wife and I ended up staying married and had two more kids, making it through the building of a new house and all the other strains in our lives, but we did it. If we could do it then so can you. I'll be praying for you brother. Keep it up. Remember, don't believe anything she says and half of what she does. Validate, this is more for you then her. It keeps you from getting wrapped up in what she is saying. By her saying it and you not arguing your point does force her to evaluate hers. If you argue your point then she is stuck on stupid because she will justify her point no matter what. You are having a profound effect on her, but she will hide that at almost all cost. But when she does let it sneak out from time to time and she will. God help you don't latch on to it that is when you will backslide trust me on this one. Finally, she did love you once and no she was not contemplating divorce the entire time in your R. Always think positive about her and yourself.

[Twofeet]

Again18 I will respond to your kind words and comments when I have time to sit down this afternoon.

I just want to run by something to everyone for validation. Wife wants to go through splitting our stuff, I tell her not right now I am starting my morning workout routine. I say just write what you want, you have an idea what I want, I will look at lthe list later when I have time. She talks about who is getting the dinner table, she wants to sell the couch, etc. I say you sell the couch, say today on craigslist what are we going to sit on? What are you going to sleep on? (She hadn't thought of that one) I say I'm working out, figure out the list on your own, thank you. Then in the workout she comes in to bug me again, I stop what I'm doing. She has some kids items she wants to discuss. This time more firmly I say, do what's in the kids best interest. I will not talk to you anymore about this, you can figure out the list I will look later. Please leave thank you.
On her way out she is talking to me about needing to disassemble the reassemble things. I say I am really frustrated. I feel that you didn't realize half the things I did for this household. I will not be able to help anymore these are things you will need to learn to do on your own. She quietly says I know then leaves me in peace.
For me it felt good to finally tell her to get on with the divorce work without a shred of guilt or anxiety.

However half way through the workout she texts me she is our sons bed and feeling really ill and I need to keep an eye on the kids. I am wondering is this some ploy or temp check, but I felt it was appropriate to check on her anyways. She is laying there looking ill and says she has had a migraine since yesterday and its flaring up (she has suffered these for years). I check her head with my hand then check her temp. She isn't running any fevers. This is the first time since the first 2 days of the BD that there has been any physical touch. I was nonchalant, didn't linger, and I want to make sure she is ok. I just don't want to appear that I am pursuing.

The thing that's a bummer is that I had some individual GAL planned today that she didn't know about, but now I am going to need to stay home because she isn't any good if it's a serious migraine. She is a wreck.

[Again18]

Well, like you told her earlier that she doesn't realize everything you do around the house here is another example of something she will have to deal with on her own. Although I don't advise telling her these things. Watch the kids and tell her I hope you feel better soon then leave her. My wife sold our bed and then slept on an air mattress after that. No need to tell them what they already know. If she wants to sell the couch, let her sell the couch.

As for your telling her about all the things you do around the house that she won't get to depend on anymore, is it possible you have used all of these things you do as your way of setting her up? Think about this for a moment because I have done this for years. We clean, we do yard work, we fix things and with all of this, there is a hidden agenda that they (family members) are supposed to do in return, like respect us, love us, adore us, overall appreciate us. all the things we need but we don't tell them we need. However, it often times the things we think we need doesn't come in the form we want or not enough of or not at all. basically setting them up to fail because we are the arbitrators of this covert contract. Probably not an issue with your young children yet but definitely an issue for me with my teenagers where I felt they should know better. Just think about it.

I know things are going fast with your W right now which is probably why she has a migraine, but keep doing what you're doing. Take care of yourself find out who you are and prove you are strong enough to do this. I know that knot in your stomach feels like it's about to burst, that your mind will not let go of even the slightest hint that she is ready to see the errors of her ways and reconcile, only to be crushed by her insistence that you involve yourself in her quest for a divorce. Stay steady and calm, there is no motion on the rock that you stand on because you are the lighthouse and she is on the tiny boat in a storm trying to find her way. Right now she is going in the opposite direction but she will eventually find your beacon and I am betting she will find her way home.

[Twofeet]

Again 18,

Seems like most of the posts on these boards are about sitches and how to deal with them. I don't seem to many inner reflections, but maybe I haven't looked enough. Anyway here goes....

I haven't quite finished the Mr Nice Guy book however I don't think I am a true blue nice guy, but I do have nice guy tendencies/traits. I don't recall any child abandonment issues and all the historical child issues that cause Mr. Nice Guy seem weird and dissimilar. That being said while my childhood wasn't terrible it also wasn't great. Lets just say I got to were I am at today pretty much by myself without the help from my folks, I wasn't abandoned I just was extremely independent. The support I did receive came mostly from my wife who also was my HS gf. I don't fear being alone which is a nice guy trait. In fact I enjoy it. I do week long solo hiking and hunting trips. That takes a lot of inner strength to overcome the fear and loneliness in the woods. I do fear abandonment from my wife and maybe I have formed some level of codependency. She is all I have known from hs to my adult life. If that is a Mr. Nice Guy I don't know I haven't seen that in the book yet. The traits I do exude are covert contracts, being controlling, conflict avoidance and fear of abandonment. However like I said I don't think my fear of abandonment is necessarily because of Mr. Nice Guy. The covert contracts is a big thing. I didn't really understand what I was doing until I read it last night. Most of the extra things I would do was to earn unsaid favors in exchange for the hope/expectation of sex. No sex, then fights. However things that I did around the house alluding to the previous post such as assembling furniture, checking cars, building things, yard work, finances, etc., etc., came early in the marriage from the expectation of my wife that the husband does certain man things and the wife does certain wife things. As time progressed I would try to get her involved in some of these things so she would know how to do them. Unfortunately, it got to the point where I gave up because she lacked interest, care, or would get angry or upset. Somethings such as yard work we now typically do together. Our roles changed overtime in that I would do certain things as well such as cook because I was better at it. It has gotten to the point where there are things I do that she doesn't know or hasn't wanted to know how to do, but there is literally almost nothing she does that I cannot do. (Later in our marriage she pushed equal partnership doing things 50/50 which in theory is good, but from what I read in reality results in unreal expectations and disappointment.)
I have been controlling at times, part of the whole Mr. Fix It mentality. Its partially due to keeping things smooth, and unchanged like Mr. Nice Guy, but part of it is to be embarrassingly honest, because of a superiority complex. In aspects such as her career she has out shined me to the point I am not sure if I will ever catch up. Not that I haven't done extremely well myself. In the beginning of our marriage I was definitely not a conflict avoider and in life and work I am not a conflict avoider. However, with the wear and tear of time in our marriage I eventually became someone who tries to avoid conflict with my wife. I also haven't show a lot of emotion, because my belief and how I was raised was that emotions show weakness and men are strong. However after BD my thoughts on emotions have changed a lot and it actually feels good to open up emotionally.

I know some of these traits had been fading especially in this last year of our marriage, but it may have been too little too late compounded by other factors such as her own personal and mental issues, her outlook on life ,and how she contributes or see herself contributing to the marriage.

Needless to say while I feel like I am a well balance person which might be why I am handling my sitch and DB so well, I am FAR from perfect. I think why DB works well for me because it kind of fits in my own mantra of its your job to make yourself happy not your spouses job. I really hope we can get to the point of reconciliation, but you can honestly see if we get there we have A LOT of work to do.