Husband left for second time - 7

[NicoleR]

Hi Jim, thanks for your input. It's hard to gauge the level of attachment. We went from living together and managing our lives together just over a year ago to not speaking at all except about really essential practical matters that come from him. I called him once since April and that was on a night when our daughter was really ill and it would have cost a lot out-of-pocket to take her to the emergency room. That's the only time I called. All other interactions came from him and my responses were positive and pleasant but brief. I feel like I'm floating in space and any remaining attachment exists only in my mind.

I'm planning to seek counseling to figure out how to move forward. As I've been mentioning, the current approach isn't working. DB may have helped prevent a divorce but that's different than fixing a marriage, especially when the couple lives separately and one is likely actively in another relationship. I'm interested in getting some opinions as to whether someone like my husband can be 'rehabilitated' in the next 10 or 20 years. There are some differences between our situation and many here. My husband has been in relationships with two or more women in the last few years, so he's a serial cheater. He's left twice. He's failed in several areas of his life and he doesn't seem to be making changes to do better. He's also from another culture, as much as that doesn't matter, but it does in some ways. If someone like that is unable and unlikely to change then staying married won't alleviate my pain nor will it provide any incentive for my husband to change.

I would still do nearly anything to save my marriage if there's a chance to save it, but all these anniversaries - one year since he left again, ten years since he entered this country, almost ten years since we married, etc.. are a stark reminder of how great our lives together used to be and how hopeful we were about our future. Even last night I had a dream and we were together as a normal married couple as is still the case in most dreams. But I don't think the path I'm on towards saving my marriage is the right one.

All these anniversaries are making me feel much worse lately. This morning my husband called my daughter and told her he's flying here tonight and then asked to speak with me. He said he's planning to stop by to see our daughter on his way to his parents' house. I told him I already have plans, which I do, and he said he'll call later when he sees what time he gets in to ask if there's any chance to see our daughter. What can I say?There's no chance? She wants to see him and he wants to see her, so I can't stop that from happening, but I'm also not going to re-arrange my plans just because he decided to fly here today.

The worse news is my husband called his week and said it looks like he got the job here in our area that's close to his parents. He was happy and excited. I said "Great! Congratulations! I'm sure your family is happy about that." But I'm not happy. I don't want him to move here to this area. I don't want to see him more often or be reminded that he's nearby. I moved here to start over and now if he's going to be here that's going to make it harder to solidify everything I worked so hard to re-build in my life. I wish my husband and daughter could be closer and that he'd be a better father but he's so unreliable that I fear getting our daughter further entwined in his life will make her more confused. Selfishly it's also hard to accept the two of them being together more often while I'm excluded. Even with a great career and a full social calendar I'd drop everything to be with my loved ones but it feels like a punishment to left alone while they see each other more often.

For all these reasons I'll address these issues with a professional counselor and I'll re-assess my prospects and which approach seems most appropriate at this time and place. Since I've found in the past that counselors don't always have the best advice either I'll seek out additional resources and I'd be grateful for feedback from this board as well. The main issue I find here is that the same words of "move on" and "detach" help up until a certain point and then they no longer do. I feel really lonely after these three-and-a-half years of fighting for my marriage and trying to move on. Maybe I'm depressed. I'm not sure, but the usual advice and approaches from the DB book just don't seem to help anymore.

Sorry for such a negative sounding message but I guess significant anniversaries really do affect some of us more than we anticipate.

[ovrrnbw]

So much negative crap that you can't control. I agree with your decision to explore how to change things up. I wouldn't want to be stuck like this either.

Anniversaries suck when you're stuck in limbo, nothing you can do about that.

Do you need to speak to him at all? It just seems like it hurts you too bad. What would happen if he calls your daughter again, tells your daughter he'd like to talk to you, and you just said "no thanks"? Not talking, text, calling back my WW did a lot for me to take away the power she had over me. Your H might see it as a game as my wife did, but of course it's not, and you're doing it to protect yourself from him. It's a reaction.

[Jim1234]

Nicole, I wish we could snap our fingers and no longer be detached. That would make it so much easier. 25mlc first reminded me that the process is not linear. You are going to have bad days and weeks, but over time, the bad ones get shorter and further apart.

You mention that the current approach isn't working to save your marriage. I suspect your marriage is over and done. I don't think your H is coming back. I really wish I could tell you differently. You are going down a cheeseless tunnel trying to save it.

I think at this point, you might want to work on saving yourself. You are already doing a lot of what you need to do, like GAL, seeing a counselor. With time, it WILL get better.

Try to look at H moving closer as a blessing. I know it's hard to have your D spend time with him, and away from you, (and those times can be very lonely if you let them be), but they are also opportunities to get out and GAL. You can devote yourself fully to something.

[KitCat]

Look at what you are writing Nic.... you are being very honest about your H negative qualities. I understand your desire to save your M but you have removed those rose colored glasses. Now I have no crystal ball to look into the future but I'm almost feeling that if your H did return you may find yourself having grown past him and no longer interested. ;-)

With that being said let's focus on the positives ---- regardless of what happens between you and your H your D will have the ability to have a good close relationship with her father with a job that's near by. He's spending less resources on having to fly to have time with her so that leaves the ability to put that money to better use on your D.

I get where you are coming from - you packed up to leave to give yourself distance and space to clear your head. How unfair of him!!!! But, you two are forever tied to co-parenting. That is a job that never leaves but changes and evolves over time. My step kids are either out of the house or nearly but my H will still have to deal with his exwife. While it may be less than currently my step kids will get married and have kids or need help moving - all areas that there will be contact and influence with the ex. You can't run away from the fact your share a child.

I don't believe you are as stuck as you think you are. I do feel the idea of a professional therapist as a win win!!! I think a therapist can help you to switch your focus from those negative anniversary dates that haunt you to positives that you have created since.

Remember the time frame is up to you. DB states that time is your friend. Remember the mistakes that occurred the first time your H returned home. Making that choice to choose that mistake again is rough (from both sides). If I remember correctly only since April you have you made real changes in how you interact with your H. 5 months isn't a super long time for someone to feel that change is genuine especially when there are strong memories of how bad it was the first time he came home. But, you are in control of the time frame and you get to say when enough is enough.

You are really starting to detach and remember... the moment you no longer want them is when they want to come home.

You are a tough cookie lady!!!! HUGS!

[NicoleR]

Ovrrnbw, thanks for your understanding. You know I sometimes don't answer or say I'm busy and my husband gets so mad, but it's usually because there's a specific question he needs answered. For the most part I answer and talk to him when he asks to talk but it's very minimal communication. I'll try to see if I can reduce it even more.

Jim, thanks for pointing out that it's a non-linear process. My situation is still better than it was before but the multiple anniversary reminders are so traumatizing. We were so happy before. We were inseparable. It's still a shock to compare our old life to what's happening now. Anyway yes it seems like a cheeseless tunnel to save the marriage. I think we all order the DB book because we want to save the marriage and I still want to save it, but following the DB guidelines hasn't achieved that outcome. That doesn't mean I will start to pursue and have relationship talks but it just means I need to identify the next best approach moving forward. I don't think my husband will return under the current circumstances but I feel he may try to return if he gets burned in enough relationships and dates enough hot 20 year olds to realize it's not the fantasy life he expected. If he reaches a point in the future where he realizes his life with our daughter and I is better than running around with whichever 20 year old he picks up at a bar then he may try to return, but that seems like a good couple of years from now. As mentioned if I knew that someone like my husband can be rehabilitated and can go back to being a wonderful husband after putting in hard work and re-committing I'd probably wait, but I need expert advice on whether a serial-cheater who keeps failing in his career and wasting money is likely to change. When my husband first left it was only for eight weeks but now this has been going on for years. I read that MLC's can last 5 - 7 years so maybe this is one explanation and he'll someday get out of the MLC, but there are a lot of uncertainties. That's why I'll try to see a therapist and look for more advice to figure out the best way forward. I'll keep trying to save my daughter and myself in the meantime.

KitKat, thanks for outlining the positives. That does help. Yes we have to co-parent and five months isn't that long although it's been three years since this all started. I tried to follow DB guidelines from September of last year but I got really sick physically and just surviving became more important than DB. Last November my husband was apologizing, then he met the woman he started dating when he wanted a divorce, then I finally moved in April, then he got nice again, and now he seems to be dating someone again so he's backed off with the reconciliation hints.

All, today my husband came briefly to visit our daughter. I had to sit nearby because we met in our building's club room because my husband is sick and we didn't want him to come into the apartment. He kept trying to ask me how my job is going, how I like the new car he sent, and about general things. Then he asked how much is the rent in my building and how far is the commute to where he'll be working. I gave him brief answers to everything but seriously? He's thinking of renting an apartment in my building? If he tries to do that I will have to say something. I don't want to see him in the hallways bringing home trashy women 15 years younger than me and I don't think our daughter should see that either.

I tried to remind myself tonight that a lot of my thoughts are based on my imagination because I have no idea what my husband is actually thinking or doing. Maybe he has good intentions for wanting to move here to be near our daughter but having him an hour away is already bad. Having him here in the building is just not an option.

I'm planning to take my daughter to Europe for an extended trip next summer so whatever happens I'm hoping I'll feel better when I go on that trip. I have many close friends in the particular destination where we're headed and I'd even consider staying there permanently if I can convince my husband to let our daughter stay there.

Anyway, it's a difficult time but I'll work hard to get professional guidance and I assume I'll know more about what will happen as my husband plans his move to this area. Thanks again everyone.

[LoneWlf]

Hi Nic,

You have a lot of moving parts happening -with a lot of decisions to be made. Take the time to Breathe -slow down and figure out what is best for you and your D before making any rash choices. Know that we are all rooting for you. Blessings!

[Jim1234]

I don't think my husband will return under the current circumstances but I feel he may try to return if he gets burned in enough relationships and dates enough hot 20 year olds to realize it's not the fantasy life he expected. If he reaches a point in the future where he realizes his life with our daughter and I is better than running around with whichever 20 year old he picks up at a bar then he may try to return, but that seems like a good couple of years from now.

Reading this, it sounds to me like you're willing to let him have his cake, and when he's been through all the other, preferable, options, allow him back to work on your marriage. You're not the option of last resort! You deserve to have someone who knows your worth! I'm pretty sure as time goes by, you'll begin to see that HE is not worthy of YOU. When that happens, you will be ready to move on.

And like KitCat said, focus on the positives. You've come so far.

[ovrrnbw]

I thought maybe your H was thinking about moving in with you, and what that commute would be like for him, not him getting his apt. But you know better than I do, you were there.

It just seems so ridiculous that he'd be chatting you up like that. Did you respond or give him any info?

It's so hard to figure out how to "move on" without filing for D. And I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to that Nicole. I don't think either of us knows what to do and I know I have a hard to figuring out how to act when D is not yet an option.

[NicoleR]

LoneWlf, thanks. I won't make any rash decisions. This has been going for so long it seems like it'll never end.

Jim, just to clarify, I didn't mean that I'm waiting to take him back if he decides to return after all the 20 year old women. It just means I believe he could potentially try to come back at that point. I don't feel he's worthy already, but for over eight years he was an excellent fiancé and husband before all this started. Now he's repeated the same cycle of destruction for several years. That's why I'm curious to know if these types can be rehabilitated. Most of the books on stopping a divorce talk about measures to take in the short-term, and most examples on this forum are recent ones. I'm wondering what's the long-term trajectory for someone like my husband. It'll help in eventually forming conclusions over what's possible and what's not, or what's acceptable if reconciliation could ever occur or what's not. I want to consider both the short-and-long term. It's a lot easier to condemn someone else's spouse I've found, and to view them as unworthy, but hard when it's your own spouse in whom you've invested. It's not just about romantic love but there are practical matters as well - financial, child-wise, family-wise, and sunk costs. Right now all the options look bad so sometimes it's a question of what's the lesser evil. Is it a husband who screwed up and demonstrates real effort to change (if that's possible), another man who comes with his own risks, or a lifetime of loneliness and uncertainty? So many considerations...

Ovrrnbw, I don't think my husband has any plans to move in with us. Every time he comes here though he tries to talk to me and ask questions. I don't ask him anything but he tries to be friendly despite the brief time he spends here (an hour or two) and then the rest of the time is with his family. For me, at this point, moving on would be getting into a new relationship and looking for a new life partner. For that to happen we'd have to get divorced. I don't think anyone can claim to fully move on when they're still married unless they want to stay happily single for a long, long time.

All, I'm exhausted from everything. At some point I need to check-in with my husband in some way. I hope I can figure it out. I just don't want him moving to this area but I can't stop him. I can't have him passing by whenever it's convenient for him and then disappearing whenever he has a new woman or his girlfriend is visiting. I need to create more boundaries now if he moves here, and to do that I'll have to communicate with him, but I don't know yet what I'll say.

When he left yesterday I just couldn't look at him, smile, or say goodbye. I know that's probably a sign that I'm not detached, and by the time I see him in person and talk to him I can feel all the emotions coming back right as he's leaving. Then I can't say a single word. I don't know what he thinks about me but he had me download an app on my phone for the new car, said he's hoping his new employer will offer us better health insurance, saying he'll send more money, etc.. Most words and actions from him are kind and caring yet he hasn't mentioned anything about reconciling and he hasn't said he's sorry. The problem with no relationship talks over an extended period is lack of knowledge on both sides as to what the other may be thinking.

[Davide]

All, I'm exhausted from everything. At some point I need to check-in with my husband in some way. I hope I can figure it out. I just don't want him moving to this area but I can't stop him. I can't have him passing by whenever it's convenient for him and then disappearing whenever he has a new woman or his girlfriend is visiting. I need to create more boundaries now if he moves here, and to do that I'll have to communicate with him, but I don't know yet what I'll say.

Nicole, I can only imagine how exhausting it is with a child involved, and the length of your situation surely makes it that much more exasperating. You are doing a great job keeping it together. Don't beat yourself up for not fully detaching. Remember to practice self-compassion. We are all doing the best we can under difficult circumstances.

Obviously you can't control him or tell him where to live, but why can't you tell him exactly what you wrote above? That you would prefer him not to live in the area, and especially not in your building. If he is in the area you would want to set up a visitation schedule so that he is not just dropping by, no? What other boundaries would you want to set? It's really easy to stress out over conversations like these, and it is often far easier just to have the conversation and get it out. I have certainly found that was the case in my sitch.

You are incredibly strong and I feel confident in saying that a "lifetime of loneliness and uncertainty" is not in your future. With or without WH you have the power to create a rich and rewarding life. Now is the time to get a head-start on creating that life. Don't let WH or anything else get in the way of that life. You got this.