Oh boy she pushed some buttons tonight. She came home after IC all smiles and said she was glad she went to the C. She knew about dinner and called me earlier today and we agreed that I would keep it warm for her. Well she gets home and says oh I'm not hungry I am still full from lunch. I am a little irritated at this point cause she could have told me that at her call earlier this afternoon. I don't call her out I just shrug it off and clean up. She tells me how we shouldn't bad mouth each other we should always be positive about each other in front of the kids. I tell her I wouldn't say negative things about you especially to the kids. She tells me the divorce is going to be good. I say you don't need me to remind you what I think about this. It is not good. She agrees.
She then tells me she has a lot of healing to do. I validate with I hear the anger and frustration in your voice, I can't imagine how upset you are. She says twofeet you have a lot of changing to do I dont want you to mess up the kids like you messed me up. I told her that was hurtful, we both need to change if we want to progress, and it upsets me that you think I would mess up the kids. At this point I tell her I need to check on the kids so I can get away from her. At the kids bedtime she said she shouldn't have said that stuff, I reminded her it was hurtful, and I understand she is hurting but fighting is something we dont want to do. She agreed. I guess that was her apology.
I think she baited me and I almost bit. Need to focus on DB and let that junk slide off my back. This re-writing of our marital history is getting old fast. It makes me question a lot about myself.
Last edited by Twofeet; 09/18/1802:36 AM.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Well I thought I was further along emotionally and mentally than I really am. Yesterday's convo is still bugging me. Can't stop thinking of her and hoping for a miracle. In-laws called today just to tell me they were thinking of me and hope I am doing well. Started to crack a little and when I got off the phone I cried pretty hard. Fortunately, my wife will not see any of this. She will just see a happy, go about his business guy.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Sounds like you have the prototypical "Wayward Wife." I kinda wish Sandi2 would chime in on this thread... I am a big believer in that once the affair is out in the open, one of you (preferably the one having the A) has to go. It has to do with self-respect and respect FROM the WW, and how they can't ever regain any respect as long as they know you know about the affair and continue to let them live under the same roof with you. (At least you have had her leave the marital bedroom, which is good and not always easy to accomplish).
I am in agreement with most of what the others on here are saying, although my thinking is somewhat more nuanced on WW's and affairs. I tend to gravitate more toward the "hard line" end of what Sandi2 preaches, and to subscribe to her view that "you will never look more attractive to her than when you are walking away." Now, DB-ing in general seeks to put you in that stance "walking away" (At least figuratively) with GALs and 180s and acting nonchalante about he and what she is up to, BUT... do not neglect to become familiar with the "Last Resort Technique" and the "Beyond the Last Resort Technique" from the DB-ing books. Sandi2s philosophy tends more towards those aspects of DB-ing, I think, than towards the "just wait it out" portions.. LH19 is right when he posts that this process can take a loooong time, even years... if, that is, you opt to wait it out. There are some examples on this board, including mine (TXHubby is another), where a LBH finally saying "enough" and walking away in the face of an intransigent WW and her ongoing affair was able to jolt a WW back to reality. As Sandi2 would say "they need to experience a loss", and she aint experiencing no loss getting to hang around y'alls house and reap some of the benefits of the marriage all the while carrying on her affair... and that you know about it!
IDK, i have prolly butchered Sandi2s philosophy, here, so maybe she will stop by to correct my interpretations, but... IMHO, you have little hope of having your W "come back" or of entering any kind of reconciliation phase in anything less than a term of years, and maybe even after undergoing a D, unless you take stronger action WRT her affair. Not talking about yelling and screaming and throwing a fit, just firm boundary-setting and enforcement of those boundaries. (ANd you'd need to read and re-read and get comfortable with the various stickied boundaries threads... and then read them again, because newcomers frequently mess this part up and move to soon without having a plan and understanding fully what they are going to do-- I know i sure as hell made those mistakes.)
Everyone's sitch is different, but i will tell you this: My W did not fully turn and come back with the true intent to work on the MR until I walked away and made her believe that i was DONE. My ordeal lasted just slightly over one year, with several fits and starts and false starts commencing about seven months in. It doesn't HAVE to take years to resolve, but it sometimes can, depending on the dynamics pertaining to your sitch. FWIW Sandi2 has said on multiple occasions that she believes that if most LBHs would put their foot down immediately upon discovering an affair, that the timeline for reconcilliation (where reconcilliation is possible, and it isn't always) would be significantly shortened.
Good luck, and God Bless.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
And i would add the important caveat to my post above that it is more than just "making her believe you are done". You have to have respectable boundaries, that you are enforcing, and have to be actually yourself willing to end the marriage (as, in fact, MWD indicates to be the case with the LRT and the BTLRT). It's not about posturing and bluffing and manipulation, In my case, i WAS done... i'd had enough of the ongoing affair and the dribs and drabs and half steps she was taking and her inability to completely "cut the cord" with OM and was, myself, in a good enough and self-assured enough place to just say "ENOUGH". Same with TXHubby if you read his threads.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Sounds like you have the prototypical "Wayward Wife." I kinda wish Sandi2 would chime in on this thread... I am a big believer in that once the affair is out in the open, one of you (preferably the one having the A) has to go. It has to do with self-respect and respect FROM the WW, and how they can't ever regain any respect as long as they know you know about the affair and continue to let them live under the same roof with you. (At least you have had her leave the marital bedroom, which is good and not always easy to accomplish).
I am in agreement with most of what the others on here are saying, although my thinking is somewhat more nuanced on WW's and affairs. I tend to gravitate more toward the "hard line" end of what Sandi2 preaches, and to subscribe to her view that "you will never look more attractive to her than when you are walking away." Now, DB-ing in general seeks to put you in that stance "walking away" (At least figuratively) with GALs and 180s and acting nonchalante about he and what she is up to, BUT... do not neglect to become familiar with the "Last Resort Technique" and the "Beyond the Last Resort Technique" from the DB-ing books. Sandi2s philosophy tends more towards those aspects of DB-ing, I think, than towards the "just wait it out" portions.. LH19 is right when he posts that this process can take a loooong time, even years... if, that is, you opt to wait it out. There are some examples on this board, including mine (TXHubby is another), where a LBH finally saying "enough" and walking away in the face of an intransigent WW and her ongoing affair was able to jolt a WW back to reality. As Sandi2 would say "they need to experience a loss", and she aint experiencing no loss getting to hang around y'alls house and reap some of the benefits of the marriage all the while carrying on her affair... and that you know about it!
IDK, i have prolly butchered Sandi2s philosophy, here, so maybe she will stop by to correct my interpretations, but... IMHO, you have little hope of having your W "come back" or of entering any kind of reconciliation phase in anything less than a term of years, and maybe even after undergoing a D, unless you take stronger action WRT her affair. Not talking about yelling and screaming and throwing a fit, just firm boundary-setting and enforcement of those boundaries. (ANd you'd need to read and re-read and get comfortable with the various stickied boundaries threads... and then read them again, because newcomers frequently mess this part up and move to soon without having a plan and understanding fully what they are going to do-- I know i sure as hell made those mistakes.)
Everyone's sitch is different, but i will tell you this: My W did not fully turn and come back with the true intent to work on the MR until I walked away and made her believe that i was DONE. My ordeal lasted just slightly over one year, with several fits and starts and false starts commencing about seven months in. It doesn't HAVE to take years to resolve, but it sometimes can, depending on the dynamics pertaining to your sitch. FWIW Sandi2 has said on multiple occasions that she believes that if most LBHs would put their foot down immediately upon discovering an affair, that the timeline for reconcilliation (where reconcilliation is possible, and it isn't always) would be significantly shortened.
Good luck, and God Bless.
Wow this is awesome. Hoos could u venture into my thread for some advice? I dont wanna hijack this one
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
And i would add the important caveat to my post above that it is more than just "making her believe you are done". You have to have respectable boundaries, that you are enforcing, and have to be actually yourself willing to end the marriage (as, in fact, MWD indicates to be the case with the LRT and the BTLRT). It's not about posturing and bluffing and manipulation, In my case, i WAS done... i'd had enough of the ongoing affair and the dribs and drabs and half steps she was taking and her inability to completely "cut the cord" with OM and was, myself, in a good enough and self-assured enough place to just say "ENOUGH". Same with TXHubby if you read his threads.
Should I confront her again about the A? Ask her to come clean and have her show me the texts? Use that as the tipping point to give her the boot? I was going to wait until the mediation day before I put the house up for sale. Already have a realtor. I also have a shark of a lawyer lined up if this mediation looks like its stacked against me or is going to fall apart. In the consult the L says I should not leave the house and keep the kids with me in the house until we sell.
Last edited by Twofeet; 09/18/1811:00 PM.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Should I confront her again about the A? Ask her to come clean and have her show me the texts? Use that as the tipping point to give her the boot?
You shouldn't do anything before you are ready. In particular, you need to know #1 what you want, and #2 what you are willing to live with/ put up with. After that, you need to know what course of action you will take, under various eventualities, if your W's actions deviate from what you are willing to put up with (typically by violating your boundaries.)
See, here's the thing-- most LBHs are eager for the confrontation... They want their Perry Mason "gotcha" moment, that, they presume, will force the WW to confess everything, beg forgiveness, and plead to be taken back. I was the exact same way. Problem is, it never works like that. Pretty much every WW/WAw, without exception, works from the same "script". Its almost eerie how much the do and even say pretty much the exact same things. You'd think they had a monthly WW club meeting to coordinate their actions or something. PArt of the script is that they will deny any impropriety WRT their affairs... even to the point of denying the entire relationship, and this even in the face of cold, hard evidence. At the very least they will minimize and claim that it is "nothing" or "completely harmless". So, you need to be prepared for that. Because of this dynamic, it does no good to have any discussions about the affair, or, indeed, as MWD indicates in her books, even any discussions about the MR. The WW does not want you. She does not want the MR. And talking her to death is not going to get her to confess any wrongdoing or convince her to change her mind. You can't talk her out of this or "nice" her out of this.
What can start to change this dynamic? Action. Action in the first sense with your GALs and 180s... actions you take for you to make you the best Twofeet you can be. This is obviously good for you and your own well-being and your new awesome life you are creating for you. The corrolary effect is that she ultimately notices your changes and becomes intrigued but... You do them for you, with no expectation as to what she will do in response.
Action in the second sense means what actions you will take to protect your boundaries... boundaries that have been clearly stated to your spouse and which reflect actions or dynamics that are non-negotiable in your life and which you will not allow to go unanswered and remedied. For instance: "I will not live in an open marriage" or "I will not share you with another man". Thing is, alot of newcomer LBHs go into this without a good idea of what "boundaries" are, or how they are defended, or, indeed, what action(s) they will take when the WW (invariably) violates them. You need to be prepared. Read through the sticky threads. Again and again and again. Check out other posters' sitches on these forums. Track down Sandi2 or artista and seek their input (they are both in high demand around here.) But dont just go off half-cocked thinking you have a "boundary" and then not know what your next steps will be or how you will respond, KWIM? That can cause more harm than it can do good, particularly if you come off looking indecisive or wishy-washy.
Your wife, as with all WWs, has lost respect for you, and she cannot love you romantically if she does not have respect for you. Boundaries and GALs and 180s are about helping yourself in the first instance, but they are also about getting back respect... both self respect and, if possible, the respect of your wayward wife.
Final caveat: Know that every single person's sitch is different. Even though the WW seems to have a standard script, there are always overlays that make every single persons sitch different from everyone else's. In my case, for instance, despite my firm belief in Sandi2's theory that dropping your own bomb on your cheating spouse early and indicating in no uncertain terms that you wont live with a cheater can be a key component in jarring a WW out of her affair-induced haze and back to reality,... in my case, i think it may have actually ended my marriage and pushed any reconcilliation , if it had ever occurred, out into the distant future. In my sitch, we had a SSM... we had not been intimate in nearly 5 years, and even for a few years before that only sporadically. Furthermore, the relationship had become almost toxic. At the time of her BD, i am pretty sure you wouldn't even have called us "friends". Had i put the hammer down on her when i discovered the A, and said, "It's me or him" or "I wont live with a cheater", she'd in all likelihood have said "see ya", and that would have been that. The interactions we had over the next several months, her being able to see my 180s and GALS close up, and the on again off again work we did on our own relationship actually created a foundation for us, that gave her something to "lose" if she left me. In addition, every WW is different. Some are more coldhearted and selfish by nature even before they go off the tracks to waywardism. Not so with my wife. She was always the good girl, very giving and selfless, with a firm grounding in a Christian upbringing and a devout believer. So she still had that deep down which helped pull her back, imo. In the end, the path we took may have been the only path that would have brought us back together... and i made a royal mess of my early boundary-setting attempts.
I guess my point is that you need to do some reflection, figure out what you want longer term and what you can and cant live with. Then do some reading, here and anywhere else you can find. But pay attention to the sticky threads on these forums. Then make a plan and stick to it. But don't go confronting your W again just because you think you need to hear her confess, or because someone here tells you to do it. You need to have a plan, for you, that fits your sitch. \
And you need to detach. There's threads on that, too. If she ever comes back to you, it wont be because you chased her down or badgered her into it. It will be because she saw you walking away or saw herself about to lose you (the new, awesome you), and because she chased you down.
And whatever you do, always keep the fundamental tenets of DB-ing in the back of your mind. And dont get discouraged..
I am not going to be around these forums on any kind of regular basis, but read through sandi2's and artista's stuff, not just the sticky threads, but advice on other folks' threads that they have given. My case is instructive, i think, just because of how whacky it got. Not sure there is anything i "did" that resulted in our reconciling, except having faith in God, which is a whole nother post...
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
PArt of the script is that they will deny any impropriety WRT their affairs... even to the point of denying the entire relationship, and this even in the face of cold, hard evidence. At the very least they will minimize and claim that it is "nothing" or "completely harmless". So, you need to be prepared for that. Because of this dynamic, it does no good to have any discussions about the affair, or, indeed, as MWD indicates in her books, even any discussions about the MR. The WW does not want you. She does not want the MR. And talking her to death is not going to get her to confess any wrongdoing or convince her to change her mind. You can't talk her out of this or "nice" her out of this.