Clean Slate Pt. 1 (Advice on my Scenario Pt. 23)

[Ginger1]

What I meant was quit engaging conversation that is going to garner a response you don't trust. YOU began that exchange with the peaceful coparenting commnet. You opened the door wide open, for her to respond. Why, if you don't trust her answers?

Whether you say nothing or thank you to what she said makes absolutely no difference in the world. There is your answer. Doesn't matter what you choose. But I strongly suggest you don't ask questions or make grand statements about your relationship (co-parenting relationship) such as you did if you can't believe or handle the answer.

[OrangeK]

Ginger, AS, Joseph, take note.

See how Sandi is able to address several topics without having it come of as an attack ONCE?

All that 2x4ing and Im happy to read her response, because it is not accusatory and mean spirited.

I never want to argue with any of you, but i am not spineless and if i feel attacked or misunderstood, i will push back or explain myself.

Sandi, thank you. I will thoroughly read this again and reply.
Ginger, thinking of a reply to yours as well.

Talk to yall soon

[OrangeK]

What I meant was quit engaging conversation that is going to garner a response you don't trust. YOU began that exchange with the peaceful co-parenting comment. You opened the door wide open, for her to respond. Why, if you don't trust her answers?

This makes a lot more sense.
I said what i did because its honestly what i want Ginger, Its the way she said it that seems disingenuous to me.
I mentioned Honesty twice in my message i sent her, yet she omits mention of honesty.
I know she has lied about S3 sleeping at OM's house, and OUR ENTIRE relationship was all lies, why would I believe her. Just because she replied to something i said does not mean i can take at face value.

Whether you say nothing or thank you to what she said makes absolutely no difference in the world. There is your answer. Doesn't matter what you choose. But I strongly suggest you don't ask questions or make grand statements about your relationship (co-parenting relationship) such as you did if you can't believe or handle the answer.

It was an attempt at an olive branch after a very bad argument weeks ago Ginger. I knew what i was saying when i said it and i knew the type of response i might have to deal with.
I come here to bounce ideas off all of you because i thought this was a place i could do that 100% honestly without being vilified.
Just because i dont believe the answer i got doesnt mean id prefer the alternative.

[Ginger1]

What I meant was quit engaging conversation that is going to garner a response you don't trust. YOU began that exchange with the peaceful co-parenting comment. You opened the door wide open, for her to respond. Why, if you don't trust her answers?

This makes a lot more sense.
I said what i did because its honestly what i want Ginger, Its the way she said it that seems disingenuous to me.
I mentioned Honesty twice in my message i sent her, yet she omits mention of honesty.
I know she has lied about S3 sleeping at OM's house, and OUR ENTIRE relationship was all lies, why would I believe her. Just because she replied to something i said does not mean i can take at face value.

Whether you say nothing or thank you to what she said makes absolutely no difference in the world. There is your answer. Doesn't matter what you choose. But I strongly suggest you don't ask questions or make grand statements about your relationship (co-parenting relationship) such as you did if you can't believe or handle the answer.

It was an attempt at an olive branch after a very bad argument weeks ago Ginger. I knew what i was saying when i said it and i knew the type of response i might have to deal with.
I come here to bounce ideas off all of you because i thought this was a place i could do that 100% honestly without being vilified.
Just because i dont believe the answer i got doesnt mean id prefer the alternative.

My last comment. You did not extend an olive branch. You were passive aggressive in what you said to try to get her to admit to S3 sleeping in a bed with OM. You said it there yourself. You mentioned honesty because your intention of that comment was to get her to fess up.

She is probably seeing right through your tactics too. You play her just as well, trying to get her to say what you want her to say.

Until you really wipe the slate clean, take an different approach and stop indulging in her mental illness, I see you going in unhealthy circles, which are uneahlthy for your S.

I also wish you a good camping trip. Maybe the peace will help you see what you really need to do. because the same stuff just isn't working.

P.S- "take note of how Sandi writes a post"- that passive aggressive.

[OrangeK]

Do you think you can follow the advice given for the non-narcissist dealing with a narcissist? Knowing that you need to hear an apology from her, maybe more...…..can you move on without looking for it? In other words, if she should apologize someday, that's great, and if she never utters a word....you don't have to have it. You won't allow a lack of an apology to rule over you.

I came to terms with not getting that a while ago. It still profoundly bothers me, but i know enough about Ms. Narcy to know i will never get an apology or explanation and if I do it will be a crock.

While you are being painfully honest with yourself, have you accepted that you won't be able to have a meaningful relationship with your XW?

Yes, my plan moving forward is called "paralell parenting", easy to look up if you're unfamiliar.

The reason I ask is b/c of the feelings you still have toward the possibility of her & OM staying together. I can't quote you, but it was something to the effect of you being crushed if OM got what was taken away from you. Are you referring to the make-believe girl she impersonated, or the real woman she proved to be?

The Fake woman. I have moved past this, it still Sux, but i know that OM will last 5 years tops, and even if he lasted the test of time, it wont change her personality. If they stayed together that would only tell me OM is willing to silently tolerate all the abuses i eventually began to question, which is what I believe got me discarded by EX anyway.

I'm not debating any of this, I'm just asking if you are holding on to the hope that one day the two of you will be back together again?

Not anymore. I had been, and the "Fantasy" of that is still appealing, but its never going to happen, and if it did it would just be a quick path back to abuse.

Intellectually, you get it. You just have a very difficult time emotionally digesting it. There is a war going on inside of you, and I hope & pray that you can find peace. Peace means everything. It won't come from her, and intellectually, you know it. If you can let go of the dream you have of the three of you being a family unit again,

That dream is dead and gone. I mourn it, but its dead.

then you can focus on getting peace within your soul. If you don't let it go, the anger is going to destroy you. Orange, I once told you that I would talk to you like I talk to my son, and this is exactly what I would tell him.

Finding that peace is where I am at now. Trying to find that peace.
Sandi, i find it VERY endearing that you speak to me as though you would my son. He is a lucky man to have you as a mother.

I really hate all of this for you, but I am really concerned about the affect it will have on the child. You can distant yourself from her. You don't "need" her. But the child needs the healthy attention, affection, and encouragement of his mother.

Paralell parenting handles this issue quite well i think. Check it out.

I pray you can release yourself from this hold she has on you, b/c S3 is going to need a father who has great discernment and the ability to lovingly teach him how to be a good person. I don't think I can even begin to imagine how challenging it will be, as you raise your son. ((hugs)) I would have to read everything I could find that teaches people how to cope when raising a child with a narcissist parent. I wonder if there are classes that teach people, or if there are support groups. Maybe you could do a little research to see if there is such a thing in your area.

I have had some great resources from IC about co parenting with NARCY, as well as extensive research online too.
Basically my plan is the old "Not my circus not my monkeys" approach.
Ive already seen the decline in S3's behavior after he has been with her for a few days, she has no discipline plan and lets him do whatever he wants, and that makes for an obstinant child. It makes it hard for the teachers, whom i feel bad for. I cannot control how she parents, i just have to be the A+ #1 dad to balance it off. I just have more work on my end than a normal single dad, its ok. S3 is more than worth it!!

I want to suggest something, as you read more information on this subject. Don't get overly focused on the negative things she does. Just get the information so that you might have a better understanding, but don't let your emotions take over your actions. I realize it must be very difficult not to be overcome with anger whenever it involves your child, but try to learn about this personality disorder in a detached manner, as much as possible.

Ive been reading a lot, it is hard when S3 is being neglected or abused, and I am working on a plan of action there as well.

You already know she's going to do things that contradict your parenting style, or your preferences/choices, etc.

Literally out of spite, yes i do.

I would think that predetermining how you will respond to some issues might help keep your anger better controlled. For example, it's obvious that S3's hair is going to be an issue, therefore, having a plan for how to calmly and wisely deal with it throughout the coming years......may save you from reacting out of anger and doing something you'll later regret.

Thats a good plan, ill work on a "Problems i foresee dealing with" list and a list of rebuttals to go along with it.

BTW, I think Joseph has been giving you some good suggestions. Even if you don't agree with everything, posting to other parents who are further down the road in co-parenting and getting their perspective could be invaluable. Experience is a tough teacher, and if someone is trying to tell you what worked and didn't work for them......you'd be wise to give it some consideration. (I'm not suggesting you weren't listening to Joseph. I just wanted to say I thought his advice sounded reasonable.) Anyway, we learn from each other, and there are people here who are having to co-parent with difficult spouses. You might be able to help someone else, especially someone who is just starting down this road.

Don't give up IC. It takes time.

Joe is always full of good advice, even when i disagree with how its presented, its still very valuable info. Plus he was the only one willing to talk with me for a bit, so i hope you know i appreciate that Joe.
trust me, Joseph, ItHurts, Makia and others are my role models for how to handle D.
I know Makia isnt Ding yet, but his methods fekkin work, that is whom i try most to emulate, if often unsuccessfully.
Count me out of the race the day i fall and dont get back up, i may eat dirt a lot on this board, but im still here, and im still pushing forward.
Sorry folks, you arent rid of me yet

[OrangeK]

P.S- "take note of how Sandi writes a post"- that passive aggressive.

I disagree. I was being very blunt. So call it aggressive if you'd like. Passive it was not.

She writes more compassionately than you do. Plain and simple, you often write like an angry drill Sgt. and thats ok. you make your points how you want to. Im not knocking you for that.

I respond a lot better to how Sandi talks to me, that is all i was trying to say.

[OrangeK]

She is probably seeing right through your tactics too. You play her just as well, trying to get her to say what you want her to say.

you know what, she probably did. Then she sat and thought about how she could play it to her advantage, and todays message was the result.

[OrangeK]

Ok. Im hitting the road now. Off to head north and clean the slate.

[Fogg]

Your posts kill me, everything you do has to be a fight with someone to prove yourself right. One post not long ago I seen some honest reflection where you focused on you and your issues. That's where you need to be, unfortunately it left as fast as it came.

I find it ironic how you justify your blunt and aggressive communication style due to...wait for it...someone being blunt with you! Oh the irony, you attack everyone for doing exactly what you do and then rationalize it as having a backbone.

No one can say anything that you feel is an attack, but when they claim you're doing it you rationalize it and dismiss their thoughts and feelings away.

No one dare assume anything about you, yet you assume about our intentions and many, many things about your ex. In fact, I believe you know with 100% certainty something that happens behind your EX's closed doors when you hadn't communicated with her in weeks.

Is it worth it always being right? Honestly, the more I read the more I see narcissism.

And for what its worth, since I seen a glimpse of the pain and guy you can be peak through I am sorry you have to deal with all of this pain, I know it's not fair what happened with your ex.

Unfortunately, you push people away from your threads not because they want to control you and fail but because you just come across as a self righteous [censored]. People get tired of trying to help someone who continues to one up them and tell them they're wrong. Remember that real comment about always trying to get the last word in and feeling the need to explain yourself? ffs find that place again and do some soul searching, theres so much growth for you there!

Many of us have been where you are and are only trying to show you areas to work on that will help you through this. because we actually care... for you and your child. Ive successfully coparented with my ex for a few years now and had experienced with many of the things you are now facing. I've experienced om and om2, I know the frustration of being powerless against someone who has ripped your heart out for another man and seems to win everything, who seems to experience no consequences of their actions. Ginger has been managing all of this for almost a decade now and has dealt with far more than you can ever imagine.

[OrangeK]

Vacation was well needed and good.
Had a few messages from EX while i was away about S3 making strides in Potty Training. He did a great job when i got him Yesterday afternoon.
He seems very pleased with himself, deservedly.

Did a lot of meditation and soul searching while i was away.

feeling optimistic about what lies ahead.

22 Days left till Divorce.