Nic - Read Blu's message over and over. It reeks of truth.
You have to come to the realization your H may never say he is sorry. You have to accept this. You have to accept your H as the person he is now.
You can only control yourself. You did tremendously well by not engaging much in the phone and making it about your daughter - kudos!!! You are keeping yourself dark and making him wonder, but at the same time you really have to find a way to move forward. Remember my story??? Those 2 only made it back together because they moved on and kept living. It would have never happened if one sat pining and wondering what it and how they could turn that other person to one they fell in love with originally.
Could your M be saved? Quite possibly one day but not as it stands right now. Your H KNOWS you are still waiting for him. He KNOWS you may have moved 1000miles away but he still knows you want him desperately to notice you and to state he is so sorry for breaking your heart.
I know how much your are hurting Nic and you have every right to feel those disappointments in a promised future that isn't currently happening. That doesn't mean that there aren't great things in store for you and your D. Be open to new adventures and start creating new dreams for yourself and D. I truly understand the pain. I grieved more for my son not having both parents in the same home... being schlepped from house to house... becoming a statistic. It broke my heart more than anything. But, a therapist once told me - it just takes one good parent. That's it. And, there are lots of families living together in a war zone far worse than just being divorced. You will find your rhythm. All my friends are in awe of me for being the mother I am to my son and from the day he was born until he was 8yr old doing it pretty much 100% on my own. I worked a demanding job... long hours... so so pay. His dad was that token person who showed up twice a month for 2 days and not much else... couldn't even take him for a haircut. I survived and so will you.
You really should be keeping a gratitude journal daily - it really does help improve one's thought process.
This happens in waves, you get on your feet, go dark, and start to create space and healing. Then that FT happens and the darkness slams into you sending you into a spiral. How much I understand this, I could probably write a book.
I had finally let go, I felt some innocent part of me die but then a part of me, this steel wrapped in velvet, came forward. I knew my kids would be ok if I was the one dependable parent. I knew that there were plenty of men that would make good, strong partners and even good father-figures. And so I let the last strand go. I felt a weight lift and I finally came to the conclusion that I could not wish my WH to be anything, not even a decent man.
And then it happened.
I let go and he was given unfettered freedom to do anything he wanted. We stood in what would soon be his new home and I felt contentment knowing my children would be loved by 2 parents even if they those parents were not together. The reality slammed into WH face with full force and he staggered. Even now, while he works hard to turn himself around he is shocked at how close he danced to being without me. But we both know he could have easily continued on his destructive path. Heck, he could still backslide into his wayward ways.
But here's the difference now, he knows I am not to be taken for granted. I stared back at him when the final grain of sand fell and I didn't blink. I.Was.Done. Now he knows every day is a gift. Every moment is a chance for him to repair the damage and that is a huge bounty. But I had no expectations and still am just in observation mode.
Sister, I stand here and support you. I've been through this and have learned some very hard lessons. It's ok to be angry, to be heart broken, to feel betrayed. But it is not okay to make your life a Reaction to those feelings. My DB coach gave me this advise when WH was acting like a miserable @ss. He said to pretend WH was on life support and I had to just move forward in life. If WH ever came off life support and returned to me then good. But not to WAIT and HOPE that day would come. To live my life regardless of WH (in)actions.
It took me 2 years but I finally listened.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Hi BluWave, thanks for taking the time to post. I'm not totally sure how to respond. I feel like I took a somewhat radical approach by packing up my daughter and moving to a different part of the country without a job lined up to detach and start over. I found employment right away, re-connected with old friends, and now fill our weekends, afternoons, and evenings with fun and healthy activities. I stopped contacting my husband completely except for one time when my daughter was sick two months back. I can see how complete no contact is helpful because it helps someone to fully detach without continued setbacks. When you have kids that's not possible though. I guess I'm doing detachment in reverse where I've taken all the big steps and now I have to take little ones to resolve the final step which is the mental space my husband occupies just when he calls or when I see him. Thankfully the situation I described in my last post is an improvement from how I was reacting six or nine months ago. Back then I would cry uncontrollably and I would tell my husband what a bad father he was. Now I think externally I'm doing well but it's that last internal sense of injustice that I can't totally eliminate. To be honest I'm not sure if I can reach the point of totally not caring without lying to myself just yet, but one area where I've been trying to improve is trying to have a more positive attitude. The truth is no one knows what my husband is thinking just as he doesn't know what I'm thinking. He may be planning to spend more time with our daughter than what I expect. Feeling bitter and angry that he'll live like a 10 year old boy while his father and maid take care of him isn't a constructive mindset. It's more like a negative thought process derived from how my husband has been acting but there's always the potential for him to change. So I think I need to be more hopeful about his ability to change and be a better father even if he doesn't achieve it. And I know the proper response for a single person without kids would be to not care at all about what their spouse does, but my husband and I have 'co-parent' our daughter even if his part is 2% and mine is 98%. I'm still trying to figure this part out. I'll keep trying to channel my thoughts internally in a more positive direction. I'm about to start working full-time because my husband lost his job which means less time to see my daughter and more financial hardship, but again I'll try to be more positive and hopeful.
KitCat, thanks so much. My husband did apologize a week or two ago which I appreciated. It wasn't for cheating or leaving though, it was for losing his job and not being able to pay the bills. It was still better than nothing. My husband has no idea who he is right now or what he's doing. His life is out-of-control. I'll increase my work hours to full-time and manage with piecing together child care somehow to avoid letting his financial devastation bring us further down. I'm not so sure my husband thinks I'm waiting for him. He seemed quite concerned when he mistakenly thought I was dating someone and most of the time when he calls we're out and busy. I do, however, think he believes he could win me back because he did it once before very easily. That was a huge mistake on my part that I've written about here on this thread. There's nothing I can do about that now except not take him back easily if he ever tries to return. He won't realize until that point that he can't just come back. There's not really anything I can say to make him realize it because I failed the first time so my actions will have to show it next time (if ever). I do have new adventures planned - if I get divorced I'll take my daughter to a country in Europe next summer for a few months and possibly even stay there a bit longer so she can go to kindergarten there. Even if I don't get divorced I may do it anyway but it'll depend on finances. One ironic observation about your comment on families living in war zones being worse off - I've lived in the middle of active war zones and I found that war brings families together in a way that's unfathomable here in the West. Families are so strong and help each other so much during times of war that it creates a buffer against the hardships of war. They come home each day thankful to be alive and watch their favorite TV shows while they all eat together even knowing they could die that night in a bombing. Even when there's no electricity or food they laugh and make jokes together. If someone dies then 50 or 100 extended family members will risk their lives to come to the dead person's house to mourn together with the family for days. If one family has no money their relatives will lend them money. Because their governments can't protect them and they have no security they create it themselves among their families. Humans have an amazing way of adapting to all situations. You're a great role model by the way for raising your son alone. Hopefully your current husband tries to help so you gave your son a second chance at seeing how a mom and dad can live together and create a partnership while raising a family. Regarding the gratitude journal - I think I would if I had more time. For now I prefer to use any extra time to help others, to show gratitude towards others, and to write cards and messages of support to those in need including those here. For me this is more meaningful within my limits of time than keeping a journal for myself right now, but if I can get even more organized I'd love to create a joint gratitude journal for my daughter and I to record together. We do it verbally each day but I think the act of recording something on paper is more powerful so you're right about that being a good action to take.
PsySara, thanks for your support! It's amazing how you've had to let go and go through that process of starting over only to find your husband begging for forgiveness at the last minute. It's honestly shocking how a situation can be reversed like that but it's something we'd all love to have happen under the right circumstances. You created the right circumstances, knowingly or unknowingly, and I think your husband is also a better guy than mine. Even despite everything he's been living there at home and helping with the kids. Mine simply moved out and never could be bothered helping with our daughter. I think your husband is worth another chance even if he's at risk of backsliding because he's done everything you've asked to redeem himself. In my case all of that would have to happen before my husband would move back in, but I doubt he has any plan to do that. My husband is totally gone. I think for us it's either long-term separation or one of us will file for divorce in the next year. I doubt I'll file unless I need to do so for extreme financial reasons. But I'm trying to move on in every way possible, as written above it's just that internal head space that is the most challenging to overcome currently. I'd love to read your whole thread sometime and reflect on it to see what else I can learn from your situation and how you say you didn't listen to your DB coach for two years and then finally did. You know what I think would have 100% chance of bringing my husband back? If I got into a serious relationship with another man. I don't think my husband ever expects that to happen, and neither do I, but if some other man has 'his' wife and starts to raise 'his' daughter I know he wouldn't like that at all. I almost wish I could move on with someone else and just not care about my husband at that point but I'm just not into dating (partly an Islamic thing as you may understand) and there are no candidates. The lack of hope that I'll ever find another man that would fit all the criteria is one thing that holds me back but it sounds like you recognized there were other men you could envision being with who could be good fathers and that helped you to move forward. I'm curious as to how this works from a Muslim perspective - how do you do things the 'halal' way and take such a big risk at re-marrying without dating in the American sense? You didn't reach that point but it's something I wonder about. Every single Muslim I know is happily or at least securely married.
BluWave, there's something I forgot to say - I feel co-dependency is a controversial topic. I believe humans are hardwired for co-dependency. It's how we were designed to live interconnectedly as a species for survival. I think only in our Western societies are we encouraged to 'break the co-dependency cycle' because we here value independence and self-sufficiency but that's not how it is in most other parts of the world. So on one hand I recognize that I can't be co-dependent on a husband who walked away and will offer nothing in return, but I feel it's healthy and normal to be co-dependent on others as a human being. One of the problems we face in our Western society is that too much pressure goes on a married partner in the absence of living with the extended family who each play a role in helping make a family function. When it's just a husband and a wife alone without parents and relatives there cooking, cleaning, offering a listening ear, giving advice, lending money, and upholding a code of ethics then all the pressure goes on the other person to be everything that we can't be. We depend solely on that other person for our needs which can be unrealistic unless that other person is extraordinarily kind and selfless. There are also societies where the husband's only real job is to bring home money and he enjoys his leisure time with his male friends and the wife depends on her female friends and mother for emotional support. This is just my own observation from my international development career but I think sometimes our marriages are set-up for failure when there's not enough external support for the married couple. Again because we believe in independence and self-sufficiency we wouldn't necessarily want family members interfering in our lives but we're products of capitalism and we have the opportunity to receive both the benefits and disadvantages of this way of life. I think the world would be a better place if we're all co-dependent the way people are in poorer societies in developing countries but we live in an unequal society where that can't happen. Anyway I always write too much but I'll try to recognize the aspects of co-dependency in myself that need to change in this cultural context while still valuing the aspects that make marriages, families, and communities more successful in other cultural contexts.
Hey Nicole, coincidentally, I just so happen to be nearing the end of the audio for Codependent No More. I dont like the term codependent because it doesnt sound like what it is. You seem to be talking about a level of dependence that we would be able to reasonably expect from a partnership. Codependency is overcompensating for another persons severe underachievement. The underachievement in these cases is frequently a result of addiction of some sort on behalf of the underachiever and thus the codependent tries to make up for everything which enables the cycle to continue. In a normally functioning relationship, one partner doesnt typically become so enmeshed in the other that they cannot fathom letting the other person face the consequences of their own behavior. This is what a codependent does such that it ultimately takes over their life to the point that they completely lose their sense of self. See the difference?
M: 43, H: 44 Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs S17, D15, D8, S6 Still living in MH
When I think of codependency I think of my mother. She does so many things for others that she isn't taking care of her emotional and other needs. When someone explains a stressful situation she immediately starts thinking of ways to make their lives easier, to her own detrement. She doesn't listen and validate there problems she starts fixing. If you do things for others that you really don't want to do, then feel resentful about it, you may be codependent. I do this often, think if I don't do something I will upset someone, so I do it but I'm not doing it with love. Laundry, taking care of children, packing H lunch etc I don't think go into codependency. It's all the other stuff. I'm also about halfway through codependency no more. I read it a year ago and thought I needed to read it again.
Helena, yeah, I see the difference. I've read about co-dependency and the definition but I think there's root cause. My theory on the root cause might be totally wrong. It's not based on any research. I think in any case we'd all benefit from diversifying our social networks so we don't depend so much on one partner but it sounds like co-dependency in a clinical sense fits a very narrow definition and I'm not an expert in any way. I feel I've had elements of co-dependency in my marriage, some good and some bad. In my case I've been through five counselors and a psychologist since this all started and no one has diagnosed co-dependency. Has anyone that for you? I feel a lot of my uncertainty about these things is you never know who's qualified to diagnose them. But we can always keep learning and improving without waiting for someone else to give a name to what we're feeling or how we're acting right? I'll try to look more into the actual treatment for co-dependency rather than just focus on the cause. I hope you're getting some good info for yourself.
All, so my husband just randomly called to talk while our daughter is at school. He talked about his job search and what he's been up to. It was a very normal mundane conversation. He talked and only asked me one question the whole time about some friends of ours. It seemed he just felt like talking. It seemed ok. I don't feel emotional or hopeful or disgruntled. I sounded supportive but not too enthusiastic. I write a lot about my internal feelings but on the outside the relationship has been steadily improving. A few others here have written that as soon as they got divorced or accepted their husband or wife's announcement to divorce then their walkaway spouse became nice again. Maybe that's how it is with my husband. Or maybe we're taking small steps towards reconciling but I don't really want to think about that. I feel I can be friends with my husband for as long as we're both single. We'll see.
So hard to figure out why they are being nice, or mean, for that matter. It's not worth the effort. I wouldn't get my hopes up either, I'm like you in that way. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
By the time you completely let go, you may be done with the relationship. That's the thing, you just never know how you're going to feel at any point in the journey. So you work on yourself and do what you can to make your life the best it can be.
Good luck Nicole
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
MMM12, seems like a fine balance between being a good person who lends a helping hand and being an unhealthy person emotionally who does these things for the wrong reasons. It's hard! We can probably all label ourselves with one thing or another. It's great whenever we find a book or resource that corresponds with how we need to improve ourselves. I'll try to get that book as well. I hope it helped you and you've found yourself making progress.
One friend suggested "He's Scared, She's Scared." It's about people who have "commitment-conflict." These are people have trouble staying in long-term relationships. Apparently there are people like many of our spouses and partners here that have "post-commitment anxiety." They develop a sort of claustrophobia from being closed-in by their relationships or children after getting married or moving in together and feel a need to break free.
There are so many ways to analyze ourselves and our spouses. It's great that we do that for ourselves as part of our GAL's and 180's. It reminds me to read more of these books. There are a few that you all suggested here, including the one LoneWlf suggested, that I want to order and read.
Ovrrnbow, yes totally. I wonder what percentage of all our posts on this forum are written about trying to understand things we can never understand. How much time do we waste, including myself? I've been so bad at that. You seem like you're making great progress on your journey!
