What signature are you referring to? The one at the bottom of your posting? Because if you are, I'm seeing it in your last posting. If that is not the one you are referring to, then try clicking on your name to see if the profile will as a drop down choice and if that doesn't work, go to the top right hand side and see if you have your user name displayed there and there will be a tiny drop down arrow there. Click on that and then look around for the profile choice. You can then decide whether to keep your signature as is or change it, but I would advise that you save your info again. Just to be on the safe side.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hey Gordie! I logged in today specifically to catch up on your situation. Glad I did because between what you have been posting and the advice you've been given I found quite a bit of good stuff that's helped me a lot. You guys are amazing!
I wanted to give my 2 cents on the situation with joining W with her interests vs enjoying your own time with and without the kids. I think that the solution to that has a lot to do with your personal dynamic with W. I think that you are right about leveraging that with her desire to work on the marriage and trying not to push her away.
My Ws reason for wanting to split was due to us growing apart and not doing stuff together (well, the reason she gave, although obviously if that were really it, my desire to work with her to make things better would have gone over better). While she is right that over the years we became more kid focused and not as focused on us, we did still do things together. Having said that, I don't want to discount her feelings on the situation because I would have liked us to be closer too. We were just of different mindsets about it. I felt like as much as I would like for her and I to go out all the time, we were very busy and our time with the kids is limited. They will grow up and go out on their own soon. I wasn't trying to sacrifice our relationship to be with the kids, but I felt like we needed do our best for the kids for now and enjoy family time and that soon it would be just her and I again to go back out and concur the world together. I now feel like I should have balanced that better...even if it wouldn't have actually prevented the situation we are in now (I firmly believe she was going to go through MLC regardless).
So your dilemma about how to handle joining your Ws interest resonates a bit with me. On one hand I value my time with the kids and don't want to miss out on any opportunities to add depth and value to both our relationships and their lives, as well as enjoy just being with them. I also don't want to rearrange my life just because she has decided that she might want me to do something with her (speaking hypothetically, I'm not there yet (if ever)). On the other hand, I also want her to feel that I am interested in her interests. Not that I share the interests, but that I am interested in her and appreciate that she HAS interests and am willing to support her in them.
The best I can say in that situation, is to seek balance. Do enough to show your interest in her stuff without sacrificing your own needs. If that doesn't work you can always pull back. Good luck my friend!
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Seems like maybe take a chance and see how it goes
How it feels for me and her
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Hello Gordie. I go away for two weeks and there is so much to catch up on - work, family, and here. I read your post two days ago but have been so busy I haven’t been able to respond.
As to your W wanting you to participate in her activity. That’s awesome!
What I would give to have my W dump OM, stop ideas of D, and want to include me in an activity she enjoys.
That is a big step up from W being angry at you and not wanting you around.
My advice.
Short version - Go! Spend time with her.
Longer version:
Your W has made an effort to ask you to be part of an activity she enjoys. I understand you are not thrilled with this activity, but that is beside the point, you should go and spend time with her. Hopefully, the following ideas can make it more palatable to attend even if it is something you really detest. So go, make good and fun memories together. Maybe respond something like:
W, I love spending time with you. Thank you for asking me to join you at yyy.
I think a big thing here is no pressure. You are just responding to her offer.
Things are going in a good positive direction, but to be clear I do not think you are piecing, not yet. This is more like those first dates from so many years ago. You had to do some things you probably were not thrilled with, but may not even had realized it. I mean if you had said on date 3 or 4, I really don’t like this, there may not have been dates 5, 6, or 7.
Remember those times? Man she is a hot girl. I really want to spend time with her.
You were just happy to get to hold hands and kiss her good night. Well she is still hot and you still want to spend time with her (from what you have previously said). So spend time with her. Btw don’t think of this as a date.
Eventually, after a few of these events, and if she seems reasonable you could ask something like:
W, I really love spending time with you. I’ve had a lot of fun at yyy. How about next Saturday we go to xxx?
I would not expect a favourable response, in fact I would ensure to keep expectations at zero - but I would hope for positive response.
A while back I said how I see expectations as hope with a timeline. For all of this interaction with W - hope for positive outcomes, good times, and so on. But do not expect it. If you were to ask her to go to the monster truck race and she says no, you won’t get disappointed if you only hoped for it and not expected it.
I have been thinking of how you had seen hope as a four letter word and found it soul crushing. I find it is disappointment that crushes one’s soul. Hope lifts up. Hope renews. Drop expectations. Keep hope.
Now, why go to something you do not have much interest in. The main reason is to be part of your W’s life again, create good memories, and start breaking down those protective walls that get built up over the years of detachment and letting go. Also W’s feelings and thoughts have changed and she even has new beliefs. She has new activities to go with her new personality. Her feeling and beliefs could change again, in fact as she becomes whole and healed I would expect that to happen. So her new favourite activity may not even exist in the future.
You, I, all of us LBS have also altered our feelings, thoughts, and beliefs. For the last years you (all of us) have been detaching, letting go, limiting contact, and such to survive, heal, and keep love and hope alive as best you can. It has become a habit to limit interacting with her. It is these very habits that are having you question if you should participate in her activity. I think when you get to this next stage those habits are now in the way and will need to be broken. You obviously have a strong belief in M and W and R. You have stood for a long time and that takes more than some fleeting feelings, it takes a strong belief.
- - -
As you can probably tell I have given some thought to the actions and problems I see upcoming if, and hopefully when, I was to face my W starting to return. The following is how I see it, a plan before the storm. Maybe it applies a bit to you.
Just like I said about detachment I think reattachment requires an accurate look at the situation. I have been hurt deeply and would not be very open to being hurt again. But I would have to risk it. I have been ignoring her antics and actions for so long it would be hard to change gears. But there is no chance at reconciliation if I do not reach out. However, the biggest thing is that my own feelings, thoughts, and some beliefs would betray me. The very things that have helped me get to this moment would become a detriment. So - Fake it till you make it.
I have allocated a year, a full 12 months, to not act on my feelings and thoughts, to give them time to settle and balance. For months after BD I felt I would never get over some things, I can see that could happen again when interacting with W and all the feelings it would stir up. I would need to consciously not react to problems. In a year from now things that are currently bothersome will not even matter. I have already seen that things from BD are barely on the radar anymore. The current problems and incompatibilities will not exist in time. I have worked so hard and survived so much, this is not the time to lose control and blow it.
Things will get a lot more difficult. I know the MLCer’s feelings are mixed up - they are going to be mixed up for quite a while yet. Be prepared to interact, and process your own crazy and mixed feelings too - just remember they are feelings and they change. Give it time to change your beliefs. It will happen just keep going. Remember when you would have given anything to be here. Well you are here. Stay calm and keep going forward.
This is your roadmap DnJ. Things are going to get weird and very trying. Refer to this. Remember you made this when you were in a much better and sane place. Get through this and you will be again. Hopefully with a M, R, and loving W.
- - - -
Ok. I wrote a bit more than I intended.
You are right if she was all in to rebuilding the M, much easier.
I think you are just going to have to give it a try. Then follow some very good advice from a pretty smart guy I have followed for some time. His name is Gordie.
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Gordie, lately I have this feeling that much of your peace and the confident way you looked out on the world is just a little bit shaky. There is some sadness in your posts that I didn't see before -- it's as if in her returning a tiny bit, you have lost hope.
I totally understand this as the exact same thing happened to me during the times my H seemed to return a little. I know just the weariness you are feeing and I send you a big ((((((Gordie)))))))).
DnJ is right that those of us with MIA spouses would be so happy if our spouses asked us to do anything with them. But on the other hand, it is pretty obvious that she is still cycling so she is still not the W you knew, she is still an MLCer even if friendlier. She is still baking. As a mom I can assure you that I love time to myself and long for someone to watch my kids so I can do stuff, but I do not consider that my primary focus and I would not do lots of things without them. So her desire to do that is part of the blindness, and I just don't see the point of taking it so seriously -- by that I mean, by believing it's the new her and will last forever.
If you trust God, you can be sure that if she truly returns, it will be your W, or a better version of her, not this limbo version. If you trust God, a return to the faith is going to be part of that, but it will not be on your timing or follow any script you expect.
My H spouts philosophy and theology to suit whatever his confusion can fit, he rationalized sin to sin back to God to sin to Buddha and now to some kind of yoga chanting God-as-vibration stuff. It's all part of the cycling. When I catch myself worrying about it, I remind myself that he's still baking in one hot oven.
You are the master of listening without judgment when the MLCer spews craziness, why can't you see her desire to do those separate activities as part of that and employ the same methods, but "actively listen" by attending once a week or every other week and not take it as a symbol of anything? Explain to your kids that you need to spend some time with Mom now to help her get comfortable in her own skin, and that you are so grateful to them for allowing you the time away when you would prefer in many ways to do something all together or to spend your limited time away from work with them, and that you can't wait to do X favorite activity with them the next day.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Mach, you are right that we don't want to make choices based on fear, but neither do we want to make them based on bitterness or some sense of revenge -- e.g., you think just because you came home I am gonna share your interests? this also runs the risk of becoming an attempt to influence her -- e.g., I will give her a taste of how that feels and then she'll realize what she did to me and repent of it.
I think Gordie's M is a slightly different place now than earlier in the MLC and I totally understand why he wants to make his W feel safe and welcomed and to know that he is standing for the M. I think that's wonderful that he is able to work on his husbanding skills even when he get none of the love back from his W, that's some godly stuff there and will lead to the most peace when coupled with continued detachment, no matter what the W does.
But I do think Mach is right that we have to be very careful about not being guided by fear, ever, but only what will help us heal, make us whole, no matter what our spouses do. Lately I have felt that you, Gordie, seem a little more wounded. I think that's natural and normal and I hope you will be able to see that when it comes, lay it at God's feet, and lean harder on God to give you full courage, strength, peace.
Last edited by Gerda; 07/18/1806:56 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
