The institution of MR is on the decline but I will not take anything for granted any more. There are no guarantees in this world and if I get married again I will constantly be keeping watch. I won't be so naive the next time around.
Last edited by Cadet; 07/09/1805:54 AM. Reason: restored post
I pray God could/would somehow cause all of us to place renewed appreciation/respect and value on the institution of marriage. I worry for us all if we reach a point where men/women meet, have children but then mostly live separately and apart. Maybe I'm naive or irrational, but what kind of message does that send to little ones like my D when they get to be my age. Hey B, I feel the same way. Marriages are disposable now. the minute conflict arises- time to pack it in and move on. The thing that bothers me also is that Divorce is a big business. The only people who win in Divorce are lawyers. Look how many are available. This is why we are doomed to go to he77 in a hand basket. I still firmly believe that we must set a precedent and show OUR children to stand for what is right. To stand for permanent unification of families. We all become stronger when the family unit stays in tact. Stay strong- Blessings!
M51 w50 T-20Yrs M-16Yrs S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up 1 Awesum dog BD 10/31/17 separate rooms 02/08/18 wife moved out 05/17/18
You seem to be firmly in an "anger" cycle of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance). I just point that out because it is good to be aware of what's driving how you're feeling. These stages are non-linear and you can bounce back and forth between them many times. It is healthy and necessary so by all means embrace it. Nothing wrong with being angry.
Originally Posted By: ballast
Fear of loss will inspire anyone to change. The real issue is communication and HONESTY, you weren't honest with your husband about your needs and didn't really want to give him the a chance at helping fulfill those needs - it's not because he didn't want to or couldn't. You couldn't be honest with him and more importantly yourself about you wanted and you feel now that you are entitled to affairs because of this.
I don't know what this is from, but I see you resenting your wife for not being honest with you about how she was feeling before she dropped the bomb.
I just want you to know that its not that easy. If you have an issue or complaint with your spouse, you can voice that complaint in a number of ways. When they hear a complaint, they can either fully embrace it and resolve it, partially embrace it and resolve it, or not embrace it or resolve it at all.
Often in marriage your spouse will complain about something and you'll misunderstand the severity. You might think it's a "2" in terms of importance but they may feel it's an "8" and don't do a good job of articulating that, or maybe your filter prevents you from agreeing that its a 8 versus a 2. In any case, this happens every day, all the time.
Once the wheels fall off the bus, the LBS often looks back on this and says "if only W had told me it as an 8 versus a 2, I would have taken action on that!" In reality, they only bear half the responsibility for that, but even if you had responded to it and addressed it, chances are something else would have risen up to take its place and you'd still be in the same scenario.
Some complaints are just completely irrational and can't be responded to -- i.e. "you should make a billion dollars a year so I can buy what I want" is likely something that no one would be able to respond to and resolve. Same thing with "you should have a higher sex drive". How does anyone take action on that? All they can do is fake it unless there's a medical issue.
So let's put marital complaints into three categories:
1) Complaints your spouse can (and should) resolve
2) Complaints that aren't valid or reasonable, or are more about you than about them. Those really shouldn't be resolved by them.
3) Complaints that your spouse is not capable of resolving
Of these three categories of complaints, I believe its really the second and third that lead to relationships falling apart, but number one gets the majority of the blame -- its a red herring.
If you get frustrated because you don't think your spouse is smart enough, motivated enough, has a high enough sex drive, makes enough money etc. those are complaints that you KNOW your spouse simply lacks the capacity to address.
If you have that kind of complaint, do you voice it? What would be the point? It would just come across as hurtful and they're not going to be able to fix it.
Couple that with the fact that the person knew these things about you when they got together with you, and they probably feel guilty about asking you to change anything because they knew what they were getting in to.
The point is, the issues that lead to the downfall of a relationship often aren't as easy as "you should have told me". That's a surface issue and a red herring.
The challenge for you is to embrace that you may never know exactly what happened with W. She may never know what happened either, and you need to accept that on face value. Some things can't be explained.
You're right that this can create tremendous anxiety because you can't guarantee that it won't happen again.
So what can you do? First, figure out how to be okay not being in a relationship. If you do that, you don't *need* the relationship, you're there because you want to be. Secondly, figure out how to "bring it" and be a partner only a fool would leave. If you do that, and you know you're bringing it, then if they leave you it is their loss and you know that, and don't have any regrets.
You can get there, and you'll be fine.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Another thing is the cumulative effect of several 2s. Your W voices a complaint and you both read it properly as a 2. So you don't take action. Time goes by and she tries another complaint on another 2. 4 2s in, you now haven't taken action on 4 2s, which with compounding interest add up to a 9! Danger!
I can look back at my sitch and realize how several 1s and 2s added up to huge problems. Could she have been more assertive about her feelings? Of course. But then I could have been more assertive about addressing even things I felt were small.
This goes along with your statement: "The point is, the issues that lead to the downfall of a relationship often aren't as easy as "you should have told me". That's a surface issue and a red herring."
And it is also probably not true either. We all say it, but once we are in comfort land most of us can't be bothered with complaints. We have an attitude of "if you loved me you wouldn't be complaining". The wake up call is sometimes the realization that maybe they don't love us.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Another thing is the cumulative effect of several 2s. Your W voices a complaint and you both read it properly as a 2. So you don't take action. Time goes by and she tries another complaint on another 2. 4 2s in, you now haven't taken action on 4 2s, which with compounding interest add up to a 9! Danger!
If it is really a 2 it shouldn't stack up like that. Obviously we're simplifying a very complicated dynamic. It comes down to whether or not each person's needs are met.
If you're generally satisfied in your relationship and you voice a "2" and the other person doesn't respond, you'll probably blow it off and forget about it.
If you're generally dissatisfied with the relationship and you voice a "2" and the other person doesn't respond, you're going to pile that resentment on top of the latent resentment you're already carrying.
You are entirely correct that if you keep stacking up those 1's and 2's, eventually you'll hit the straw that broke the camel's back and you'll get a bomb day.
Really though, those string of 2's were just stoking a fire that was caused by something else.
"Having your needs met" is also a tricky business. Just like complaints, there are things your spouse *should* do for you, and there are things you *should* be able to do for yourself.
If you take something you should be able to do for yourself, like have healthy self-esteem, and assign your partner responsibility for that, it causes things to start to break down.
i.e. "I need you to tell me you love me and buy me a gift every day so I feel good about myself" may be an unspoken expectation of a low self-esteem spouse.
If the partner fails to deliver, they'll get increasingly resentful and blame the fact that they don't feel good about themselves on their spouse for not meeting their needs.
If an impartial judge was involved, they might be able to right away point out that those expectations are unreasonable, and really the person needs to do the work to feel good about themselves without a daily "I love you" and a gift.
Sadly such judges are in short supply and generally unwelcome. We can do what we can to provide for our spouses' needs, but we need to stop short of becoming emotional caretakers, or codependent crutches in order to maintain healthy boundaries.
Unfortunately this dynamic tends to play out unspoken, and with low self-awareness, which is why we find ourselves here, and why marriage is so difficult!
The majority of the battle is getting emotionally healthy ourselves, and that is firmly within our control.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Acc...as always I appreciate your comments and thoughts on my sitch. When you say I'm in the anger cycle of grief I've thought long and hard about that and whether you were right or not. What came to mind immediately was "that's not the right adjective for me", but then again neither are anything of the other stages necessarily right either. I think disillusioned, frustrated and occasionally sad along with amazed is a more accurate mix of where I'm at.
As for my W and her being honest with me before she left, at least at this time from working with the IC, I think I've come to see that W could never actually have told me what she needed. I don't think she has the ability to be vulnerable and really express what she was feeling. Of course then I feel complicit as well in that perhaps she was in her way trying to tell me, but it wasn't in the way that I was able to understand her. Disappointed in both of us that if we were at an impasse in being able to really communicate with each other that we didn't seek help to address that, although her complete loathing and disdain for professional help as a waste of money would have likely prevented us going anyway.
W has few likes and many dislikes, is passionate and sees things only in black and white. I'm a mostly positive guy, more go with the flow and allow for multiple shades of gray. We are opposites, but as happens many times we were able to balance/compliment each other. She is always right, never apologizes and never displays affection such as even a hug to family members. Next week she will be off on another week long trip with one of her GFs. This will be the 3rd consecutive month of her having done so and she already has another one planned for next month. To anyone who hears this, that sounds not normal. Best I can tell it's her constant need to escape reality. Women even without small children are amazed she can so frequently leave our D with me and go off as she does.
Honestly I kinda don't care to think anymore. Every one of my friends/family when they hear about her trips, hating being a mom and the imaginary woman I'm "seeing" they are like "consider this a blessing that you are getting away from her" and in truth they are correct. The fight inside me currently is perhaps more about "what did I see in this woman" more so than what's left to fight for AND good Lord if I could screw up picking this one, what's the chance I don't screw up again? W was NOT like this prior to D's arrival and IC has told me that there was no way I could have foreseen the changes in my W that came about as a result of D. Here again though as an LBH considering the prospect of another go in the future, if I could not have foreseen this one, again what's the chance it happens again?
I go on, I loved her and still want to, but as they say not my circus, not my monkeys.
Meh...feeling like a ping pong ball these days. At least I have D with me and that is so good for the soul. We have the BEST time together. D asks for "both of us" (mommy/daddy)...
Ok ACC I guess you were right after all. W is soon off on her trip, happy to have dropped me like so much trash. I am angry to have been discarded without any feeling from her of letting me go. One day I will put this all behind me.
ballast, hang in there. Emotional ups and downs, uncertainty about the future, trying to reconcile who she was with who she's become, we've all been there.
I would advise you to take your focus off of her, and keep it squarely on you. This is where the ups and downs come from. Those that struggle the most with the roller-coaster are those that stay to focused on the WAS and what they are doing, saying, not doing, not saying, etc.
Detachment requires GAL. How are your GAL activities going? What did you do this week in regards to GAL?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve...thank you for your words of support and encouragement! Yes as much as I have experienced changes in mood from her, clearly I'm doing the same within myself. I feel as if I'm in a constant struggle to keep depression from consuming me. I definitely "bounce around" when it comes to emotions.
I'm sure her taking off on a trip has been the primary reason for my heightened focus on her. When W is not traveling, my anxiety is basically non-existent. My mind translates that she is off having this fantastic, happy time while I'm left behind. Trips were something that we both looked forward to with shared excitement and so now it's a trigger for showing how apart we are now. Toying with the idea of taking a trip myself, but the idea of going alone seems very strange to me. I think what I need to remind myself is that she is always going to present herself as super happy to me, when in fact I have no idea how/what she really feels AND given how she is doing these every month which everyone I know says is not normal, they could be more a reflection of her trying to run away from responsibility in her than anything else. Anyway I don't know where she's headed and I haven't asked and don't plan to.
GAL wise so this week while W is away I have my D which means outside of work I always keep busy with her out doing fun things together. Since she's not 4 yet, obviously these are not adult activities, BUT they ARE the most rewarding! Next week I'll be in the gym as normal, I read, have started to watch movies, pursue my photo hobby and am working on learning a new programming language...oh and I'm starting to enjoy going out once or twice for dinner. That's during the week, after work type stuff. I find myself fine when alone during those times and not lonely so I take that as a good thing. Weekend wise next week I'm hoping to meet up with an old work friend for drinks, dinner and to hang out.
Getting to a point of apathy regarding W will be blessed upon me one day. I just have to keep having faith I'll get there.
Next week I'll be in the gym as normal, I read, have started to watch movies, pursue my photo hobby and am working on learning a new programming language...oh and I'm starting to enjoy going out once or twice for dinner. That's during the week, after work type stuff. I find myself fine when alone during those times and not lonely so I take that as a good thing. Weekend wise next week I'm hoping to meet up with an old work friend for drinks, dinner and to hang out.