HaWho, I don't want to chime in with D advice since it is not in my realm of action but I wanted to say that I get the sense you are allowing yourself to be dragged into the darkness a little on this. Isn't the Costco card just a membership card that allows you a discount but isn't a credit card, for example? Why give that any of your head/heart space? He just seems so sad and pathetic to me, like an angry bee who doesn't realize that after you sting, you die. He is enslaved by his anger and depression, but you don't have to take that in. For things that don't matter, can you just ignore it or say, "we can share the discount card," and nothing else if he asks for a pathetic connection like that? To me, when I read your sitch through my faith lens, your H seems caught so deeply in a spiritual battle, he is still so confused and to my mind does not want to D but is being driven to it by the dark MLC self he can't master. I'm not telling you to stay or to go but only saying that I would only battle things that actually connect you financially and the rest just lay at the feet of the universe and don't take it in. Of course it's not going to be fair, the whole thing is disgusting, wrong, a betrayal, etc. And of course you have to make sure your kids are supported financially. But wherever you can set a limit to how much tug of war you are going to play, the more free you can be.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Sorry, I don't have any experience with getting your legal fees paid, but I'd imagine if you had to hire a forensic accountant to find money he was hiding you'd have a pretty good chance of getting some legal fees covered.
As for the Costco card - what does the membership cost, 40 or 50 $ a year? IF you renewed your membership after he moved out, ignore him or simply point out that now that you are separated you each need your own account. If the renewal was paid out of community funds just send him s check for $20 and say here's your half of the renewal fee back. Silly I know but pick your battles.
If you don't have a credit card in your own name I suggest you get one now. If your joint cards are in his name with you added on as a user he could take you off them (although I'm not sure how that would affect your liability for that debt.)
If you have frequent flyer miles or other rewards on those credit cards remember they are an asset too.
You're wise to keep these things as much as possible in the lawyers hands. One thing my ex said to me as we were going through this that I think was wise, something to the effect of "if we both think we lost out it's probably an equitable division ". (Words somebody must have told him because he conveniently forgot them later),
Try to avoid appearing adversarial, just say "yes unfortunately it costs more to live apart" and "Im only asking for what the law dictates" and leave it at that.
So much of what you write is what I am living, and even foreshadowing. Just today, after what I assume was his first day back at work on a 12 hour shift, he apparently ran right home and felt the need to change the email on a TV streaming account we have had for years. It is in his name and was his email. I got a notice that he changed the email to mine. I then checked my bank account because I was pretty sure this was paying from a card I never use. Lo and behold, he changed the fee from a credit card I have where he was an authorized user to our joint card which I pay. I think he thought he was paying for it. That $13 a month that he mistakenly thought he was paying must have been a huge deal for him. Why he didn't just boot me and the kids from the account is beyond me. The last time he messed with an account like this in December I called him. I think he may have thought I would rage or contact him. I just could care less.
On to your fee issue. Attorney fees are going to be by statute, as interpreted by case law, in accordance with local practice and judicial preferences. Lot of words to say it is up to the judge in your case and no one can really tell you. I practice in a field where we are supposed to have fees to the prevailing party. They are seldom granted. We don't have a loser pays system like our friends across the channel and some judges are loathe to give them.
Speak to your lawyer and follow his advice, but it is often a good idea to ask for the fees, because sometimes you have to ask for them 3 or 4 more times (for new violations) before you get them. Trust me, your H is going to be pushing the limits at every turn and the fee issue is going to keep coming up. In general, when someone compounds litigation through bad faith actions, that is when attorney fees start coming into play. In my very progressive state, my lawyer tells me I have to pay my own fees.
Yes, he wants to control you. Things like taking the actions you took (entirely necessary) are going to cause him to seek retribution. But the good news is that it sounds like you have a great lawyer and the judge is getting a good read on what is going on in your case. I'm sure the boys will be the targets since you are so strong and he has a hard time phasing you. Just make sure to keep them in counseling and watch for what he is doing and document and report it to your lawyer.
Like I said, by filing in court he took away his power. I am still waiting 1.5 years later for the elusive separation contract draft. He keeps telling me it is unfair and he won't be enslaved, but when I ask what he thinks is fair he can't or won't tell me. We are back to threats about selling the house (which the court will not order in our case). It is exhausting, but I keep reminding myself it is just threats. I think I am not responding anymore, at all, regardless of what he does, because that is what he is really after. Were he ever going to file, he wouldn't mess with my money, or my streaming accounts, he'd just file. Sometime I'll share with you my own Costco card story, but I've already overshared here.
Looking at the end game - casting him free to dance with the fairies while protecting you and the boys as much as possible is probably your goal.
It's easy to get caught up in the minutia but in an adversarial legal environment that can add time and money. A phrase I used during negotiations with my ex was that I didn't want to waste time "searching for nickels in the couch cushions". We ended up agreeing to broad strokes like for example that the value of the property she took was equivalent to what was left behind.
In researching elsewhere one message I heard fairly clearly was that when negotiating with a disordered / selfish person that having them feel that they are "winning" and that they are "getting away with it" can be effective. It does mean that you have to walk away from the table knowing that you've left things behind that perhaps you could have fought harder for.
My suggestion is to decide what is truly important to you based on easily agreed facts. Let him dash off with his hidden bank accounts and the family silver if that's what it takes to get things done smoothly.
I've read too many occasions of where things get dragged out and adversarial and the only people who end out ahead are the lawyers.
In my case I short-circuited a lot of the disclosure - fully disclosing on my side and not really paying much attention to her's (she didn't have hidden accounts of any amount I'm sure). We agreed to a value on the house based on a third party opinion of value. The final deal was that she would get 3/4 of the equity from the house and a modest spousal support payment for several years. I got to keep my pensions and what material goods were remaining after her several shopping trips. All other items were deemed to have been dealt with and were not even mentioned in the agreement other than that the agreement was comprehensive and covered all possible items.
The paintings she took I've mostly replaced with some nicer originals painted by amateurs that I found at various local art events. We had far far too much furniture and so I don't really miss most of it. A real couch would be nice perhaps. Her jewelry doesn't match many of my outfits. The piles of "stuff" that had been accumulating dust around the house that she took along with the unused exercise equipment I don't miss.
Just my 2 cents.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Doll, in my state it's up to the judge, but you have to ask for legal fees to be paid for it to be considered.
Decide what you want, and let him think he's winning on the other points.
In my case, any joint cards meant I was responsible for 1/2 that debt and also the balance adversely affected my credit rating!!!! I never charged anything, but exh maxed out the joint card. Yes, I had to pay and yes my credit took the hit.
My Costco card is a credit card, but I know you can also have a straight membership card. If you're so inclined, I might open a second membership and give him the card just to make him think he's getting something his way. Lose the battle, HaWho, win the war!!!!
xoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I hear your struggles annoyances and stress of the ongoing situationbiy mostly I see a strong you in a relatively good positionheadinh towards a better way of life. I say relative because it isn't a good situationand isn't what you wanted.
Chin up, keep going. Better times are ahead
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
In my sitch the financial outcome was bizarre. Two things of note - First she wanted a lump sum payment not alimony. Her L added that I must pay the income tax on her lump sum so she gets the full amount. Whatever, here in Canada alimony is taxed and lump sum payment is not - so I owned nothing extra.
Second I had to pay her L fees. This was written into the agreement, which I agreed to. It seemed like W and her L saw this as some big win. Whatever.
I found out, almost anything can be written in to your separation agreement, and if both parties sign then that is it. But forcing him to have to pay L fees in court, well like everything else in court who knows what will happen - that is why you are in court to have a judge figure it out.
So, if you are asking him to pay and he does great. If he is refusing maybe removing the L fees will be like a bargain chip and allow you a win in other areas.
Remain strong HaWho.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Just as an aside HaWho - DNJ's comment reminded me that I believe that your tax code is changing at the end of 2018 where spousal support shifts from being a tax deduction to being taxable.
That could perhaps be used as motivation for the other side to get the deal done sooner rather than later.
With him being the higher earner, the tax implications could be significant not to mention the annoyance to him of "why do I have to pay tax on money I don't get to keep".
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
