Summary: W having affair, feels I have emotionally abused her. I have work to do on myself to become more confident and detach (lovingly!). I think I am reeeally close to confronting about affair and taking back the bedroom.
Last edited by Cadet; 06/05/1810:52 AM.
Me:30 W:31 S:4 M:7 T:12 PA: 5/6/18 - ? W moved out 7/18
I find myself wanting to confront W about affair, and stand up for myself, but I am hung up on what I can actually do that wouldn't just be controlling. I could close joint accounts saying I can't trust her with our finances, but legally our marital assets equally belong to her, and she is free to max out her own personal credit card. We are in a community property state so in divorce I would still be liable for her spending either way (I still am not sure wife understands how that works). Her using her own card would help me detach in that I wouldn't be hit daily by her purchases. And she is free to open up more credit cards, and she may claim I am financially abusing her. I also see that doing nothing isn't good for me either. W's behavior is costing me a lot of money, and there is no end in sight for her spending and affair.
Me:30 W:31 S:4 M:7 T:12 PA: 5/6/18 - ? W moved out 7/18
You're full of excuses for not taking the situation by the b@lls and making it real.
1. Get online and open your own checking account at your current bank. Stash some cash in that account. 2. Get your own credit card from that same bank. 3. Close-out or lower the limit on your existing credit card. 4. Get boxes and tape for your lovely wife. Lowe's and Home Depot both have a good selection of boxes. 5. While you're getting boxes, buy some new locks for the doors. The lock packages will have a number on them, if you get all of your locks with the same number, you'll be able to use the same key for all of the locks. 6. Put the boxes and tape next to your wife's favorite place to sit and get her to sit down and have the discussion.
5. While you're getting boxes, buy some new locks for the doors. The lock packages will have a number on them, if you get all of your locks with the same number, you'll be able to use the same key for all of the locks.
Even better, Kwikset uses SmartKey so you don't have to worry about matching as you can easily rekey their locks to a common key.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I find myself wanting to confront W about affair, and stand up for myself, but I am hung up on what I can actually do that wouldn't just be controlling.
Okay, let's talk about this. But first, could you answer a few questions? Has the status of the MR been established? In other words, does she consider you as "in-house separated"? Has she clearly stated her future intentions?
Did she ask you to leave the bedroom, or did you volunteer?
So, the counselor used the "abuse" word. Do you feel that your W uses it as her excuse to spend money, or anything else she sees fit? Is she currently seeing that counselor?
Did your W's affair begin before or after you started sleeping in separate bedrooms? Has there ever been inappropriate behavior in the past?
When you mentally picture confronting your W about her affair, what do see her doing.......or what are the results of this confrontation? This is not a trick question, so I hope you'll answer it. I think it is important.
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I also see that doing nothing isn't good for me either. W's behavior is costing me a lot of money, and there is no end in sight for her spending and affair.
Get whatever legal consultation that's available. Learn what you can do.....and what you have no power over. Get advice from the professionals.
Your emotions may reside in panic palace, making you feel that you must "do" something. This is when a lot of LBH's make big mistakes. He feels as if he is sitting back and not fighting for his M. Becoming informed is the first action to take. Do you have a lawyer? Get the legal information and advice regarding bank accounts, credit cards and her spending. Get answers to your questions regarding separation and/or divorce and where you stand.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Omg. W is planning to go to Lake Tahoe for a week in mid-July. Showed up on our shared calendar today. What is her game? I don't want to pay for that.
Unlink the calendar. She knows you can see it, and is using that for nefarious purposes.
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I also see that doing nothing isn't good for me either. W's behavior is costing me a lot of money, and there is no end in sight for her spending and affair.
Talk to a lawyer or 2. Get advice. Get prepared.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Okay, let's talk about this. But first, could you answer a few questions? Has the status of the MR been established? In other words, does she consider you as "in-house separated"? Has she clearly stated her future intentions?
Did she ask you to leave the bedroom, or did you volunteer?
She screamed at me to leave the house back in November, saying she needed space and wasn't healing with me there. I complied but came back home to the couch in Feb. because I thought R stood a better chance with me in the house and working on the MR. At the time I thought it was the right thing to do. I don't think we've ever used the words "in-house separated" to each other, but that's what it is. Haven't shared a bed in 7 months.
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So, the counselor used the "abuse" word. Do you feel that your W uses it as her excuse to spend money, or anything else she sees fit? Is she currently seeing that counselor?
I assume she will resume seeing that counselor if/when she finishes the more intensive therapy she is in now. She is transitioning to 3hr/day, 3x/week intensive outpatient therapy starting this Friday. She is being discharged from the partial hospitalization program today. She made a comment this morning that she thought the hospital staff thought she was in denial. She said she probably was at first. Would I ever love to know what she thought she was in denial about.
For my part, I won't deny the accusation of emotional abuse anymore after having read just some of the Stosny book. I think that book is a great resource I need more time with. I haven't talked about it with W.
I do think her spending has been in part to spite me (she's admitted to this in the past), but mostly to try to make herself feel better, that she was worth spending money on. I think that's a core hurt of hers. I can and have empathized with that hurt, though have only done so once at the beginning of our separation. I disagree with her method of attempting to heal that core hurt but tried to give her space with it, since letting her make her own decisions about money was a 180 for me. My own resentment comes from then not feeling like I have any money available to spend on myself. In the marriage I want, we would both have equal spending allotments each month.
I think all her behaviors since the "abuse" label have been her defiantly and angrily trying to claim her own core value she blames me for destroying. Finding her core value is absolutely something I think she needs to do, as do I. I have judged she is doing it in a spiteful and bitter way. But maybe it just feels that way to me because she is rejecting me. Or it feels like rejection to me when it is really more about her self-protection.
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Did your W's affair begin before or after you started sleeping in separate bedrooms? Has there ever been inappropriate behavior in the past?
As far as I know, affair started after separation. Never any inappropriate behavior in the past like flirting, though over the span of our relationship I can think of three or four men she has talked about with a kind of admiration I never heard her speak of me. Like she would have crushes, but maybe her self-esteem was too low to flirt. I never made a big issue about it, but I probably should have told her how it made me feel. I felt jealous and anxious when she talked like that, but I thought I shouldn't make a big deal of it so I didn't talk about it. That's how I approached all conflicts or negative thoughts/resentments towards my wife, and I think that's why I ended up emotionally abusing her, because I didn't know what to do with those feelings I thought I wasn't supposed to have about her.
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When you mentally picture confronting your W about her affair, what do see her doing.......or what are the results of this confrontation? This is not a trick question, so I hope you'll answer it. I think it is important.
If she doesn't just flat-out deny it or walk away saying "I don't have to tell you anything", I think she will get angry and spew at me. I think she would try to justify the affair with her belief that we don't have a marriage and never did, and that she should not be shamed for wanting something better than our relationship which has been so damaging to her. My therapist has been trying to get me to stop worrying about what W will do and just act in accordance to my values. Have I answered this question well enough? The harder question to answer which my therapist asked me is, what do I hope to gain from confronting. I answered that I would just gain some self-respect and feel able to stand up for myself. I think I want to not be in a powerless position in the MR anymore, playing the role of the unforgivable abuser. But wanting to take back power is the kind of thing an abuser would do, which has me unsure of myself like W has me in a double-bind. That's the real thing I want, is clarity and confidence in these situations that I am acting from my core value, not just making power-grabs. That's what I hope to learn from the Stosny book.
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I also see that doing nothing isn't good for me either. W's behavior is costing me a lot of money, and there is no end in sight for her spending and affair.
Get whatever legal consultation that's available. Learn what you can do.....and what you have no power over. Get advice from the professionals.
Your emotions may reside in panic palace, making you feel that you must "do" something. This is when a lot of LBH's make big mistakes. He feels as if he is sitting back and not fighting for his M. Becoming informed is the first action to take. Do you have a lawyer? Get the legal information and advice regarding bank accounts, credit cards and her spending. Get answers to your questions regarding separation and/or divorce and where you stand.
I have met with a lawyer for a consultation. I think W has told me she has done the same, though I haven't told W I have met with a lawyer. I guess a question I need answered is whether asset division works from a snapshot at the time of filing, or could start from an earlier agreed separation date. Then I could proceed with the financial separation and getting my own account more confidently.
As for the Lake Tahoe thing, I just realized it is possible that she may just be going with her parents, since they are Diamond Resort timeshare members and they have invited us along on similar trips in the past. That would make more sense for her to have put it on the shared calendar. She also put down a date for her sister who lives across the country to visit. And this morning she mentioned a family party she wanted to go to this weekend with our son. So maybe she was just talking to her mom last night while I was out and made all these plans. I already knew about the party this weekend, and that she didn't want me to go with her. No big deal there, but my sister's son is being baptized and I wanted to go to that. Since both things are 2 hours away in our shared hometown, we will be driving together. That will be an awkward drive.
I read in DR today that it is necessary to put one's own needs aside while DBing. A 180 for me though is to actually voice my needs. One cheeseless tunnel for me was to do all the chores in the house without asking for help. I thought I was doing a 180 with that by doing it without resentment. That was unsustainable long-term though, and my resentment has returned, especially with discovery of the affair. And with resentment being the root of my emotional abuse towards W, I need to do something different. I think that means asking for W to share in household responsibilities, and stop doing them myself if she does not want to participate. Idunno, I've been thinking about this more today after reading some of DR. But maybe LRT is better fitted now? In which case just assert that I won't be making dinner for W anymore because I can't sustain that imbalance? We actually made plans to share cooking responsibilities after one night that I went out to eat with son and (purposefully, anxiously) didn't get W anything, and fridge was near empty. That got W's attention in a big way, but I thought I handled it sloppily by not informing her I would not be taking responsibility for her food anymore. We haven't talked about who cooks meals since she started this hospitalization program. I stepped in as usual to cover for her. I think she's well enough to cook now though, so if she declines, I think I should set a boundary that I will not cook for her anymore. I then expect her to spend more money on takeout, but oh well. Addressing financial concerns comes next.
I never did clarify to W that I would not fight a divorce if W files herself, but that she needs to file separately. My therapist still wants me to have that conversation with W, and I am supposed to practice it with my therapist tomorrow in my appointment, along with confronting about affair, if that is the best thing to do. I'm starting to think it's not, but don't know what else to do which will help me recover my own core value and make decisions for my future rather than letting W drag me along for a ride.
Me:30 W:31 S:4 M:7 T:12 PA: 5/6/18 - ? W moved out 7/18
I felt jealous and anxious when she talked like that, but I thought I shouldn't make a big deal of it so I didn't talk about it. That's how I approached all conflicts or negative thoughts/resentments towards my wife, and I think that's why I ended up emotionally abusing her, because I didn't know what to do with those feelings I thought I wasn't supposed to have about her.
can you explain how you abused her emotionally?
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Quote: When you mentally picture confronting your W about her affair, what do see her doing.......or what are the results of this confrontation? This is not a trick question, so I hope you'll answer it. I think it is important.
If she doesn't just flat-out deny it or walk away saying "I don't have to tell you anything", I think she will get angry and spew at me. I think she would try to justify the affair with her belief that we don't have a marriage and never did, and that she should not be shamed for wanting something better than our relationship which has been so damaging to her. My therapist has been trying to get me to stop worrying about what W will do and just act in accordance to my values. Have I answered this question well enough?
IDK, b/c I still don't know what it is you wish to gain by confronting her.
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The harder question to answer which my therapist asked me is, what do I hope to gain from confronting.
That was actually what I was wondering, but I stated it poorly.
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I answered that I would just gain some self-respect and feel able to stand up for myself. I think I want to not be in a powerless position in the MR anymore, playing the role of the unforgivable abuser. But wanting to take back power is the kind of thing an abuser would do, which has me unsure of myself like W has me in a double-bind. That's the real thing I want, is clarity and confidence in these situations that I am acting from my core value, not just making power-grabs. That's what I hope to learn from the Stosny book.
Is that what the counselor told you? That you were an unforgiving abuser? That counselor used some very harsh words and they took a heavy toll on you. Did this counselor have IC sessions with your W before ever having a joint session?
Do you see yourself as a man who abused his W, or are you learning from the book you mentioned? Again I have to ask........how did you abuse her emotionally.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Is that what the counselor told you? That you were an unforgiving abuser? That counselor used some very harsh words and they took a heavy toll on you. Did this counselor have IC sessions with your W before ever having a joint session?
I think the counseling-therapy profession is filled with charlatans. That's unfortunate because there are some very good therapists but it's difficult to figure out who the good ones are.
My first IC (sort-of MC), didn't really seem to be providing much value. I'd never been in IC before so I had nothing to compare her to, and I didn't look deeply into her background before selecting her. As it turns out, her PhD was in music, not psychology. When I finally stumbled upon the counselor that became my MC, it became clear just how useless my previous IC was. It was literally like night and day.
I don't think a good IC would call you an unforgiving abuser unless there were some truly horrendous circumstances, and if that were the case, then the IC should be telling your wife to run away as quickly as possible. So, I smell a rat.
