Afraid of the dark PART 3

[sandi2]

I also don't see sitting idle and just let my M slip away as an option either.
If both roads lead to D why not go the path where at least I tried?

Okay, so give examples of how you would try to save your M. Obviously, you see DBing as sitting idle, or playing hard ball........neither of which you want. So, how do you see fighting for a M your W does not want?

[Ste7e]

Sandi I see your point.
After rereading DR yesterday I also saw that my active fighting for my M is what didn't work anyway to begin with which is why I came to investigate the DB approach in in the first place.

I guess yesterday and the night before I made the terrible call, I was thinking I could reason and showing that I was fighting for the M would be seen as a romantic gesture like in the movies. W is a big fan of the movie valley girl where the hero makes these romantic gestures which wins the girl over in the end. We had just talked about that movie at dinner before and I thought maybe this is what she wants me to do actively show I care. But as DR says things aren't like in the movies.

And every response I got from her in the call was that nope this is not what she wants me to do. She wants me to sign the D papers is all so she can move on. And like she said in the conversation the next day is that she wants me to sign because she is afraid I will retaliate in the D in some way vs an amicable non contested split. I am willing to sign to show her that is not my intention and maybe make a gesture to help her regain some trust in me. Although I don't understand why she doesn't trust me, which hurts alot cause I am a very open and honest and non vindictive person. But it suggests to me that I am doing something which makes her not trust me. Its just so hard because I feel like signing is also saying I give up and that my M and any hope of Rec. is evaporating in front of me.

I can also see how the in person we had before the call where I was detached and following your rules actually worked alot better. Even though it was about something I didn't want to happen how I handled it was a 180 and if I had just stayed the course and went home and cried my eyes out for a day I wouldn't have lost the 16 days of forward momentum I had gained. Instead here I am at day #1 again argh

[Davide]

Day 1 or Day 16, itt doesn't matter. You know what to do and you know you are strong enough do it. Just learn from the mistakes.

[Vanilla]

Also after rereading abunch of DR I realized that I was confusing doing 180's with GAL. So most of my 180's were actually GAL oriented. Some of the big 180's I actually need to do are
1.) Be emotionally sober and don't allow my anxiety to derail me

2.) Get a job in the field I want to be in so as to find some fulfillment in my life beyond my W

3.) Stop trying to manipulate my W to be in the R live and let live

4.) Curb my jealousy and untrusting behaviors to everyone

5.) Act as if I am moving on with my life and eventually that will become a reality

These aren't goals lovely they are wishes.

Goals have actions and are action orientated.

So let's look at just one of them:

Act as if

Why act as if?

I am moving on with my life

This means nothing particularly, what does this look like?

And eventually?

When exactly?

That will become a reality

The whole purpose of goals is reality.

So how about this

I am happy and active every day by following a daily routine and three times every week I go out GAL with friends and family.

Or Whatever suits you.

------------------

Curb my jealousy

The human mind doesn't cope with negatives

And untrusting behaviours with everyone

Some people aren't trustworthy!

So how about

I am confident in myself so that I evaluate relationships regularly, the people in my life are trustworthy and I give and receive trust appropriately by evaluating each relationship every year.

--------

Over to you

V

[sandi2]

I guess yesterday and the night before I made the terrible call, I was thinking I could reason and showing that I was fighting for the M would be seen as a romantic gesture like in the movies.

I wish it was that way IRL. First of all, a wayward is not logical, so that means if you try to reason with her.....she's going to fight you. Second of all, those romantic movies aren't dealing with a wayward, nor is reality like the movies. Trust me, I nievely thought that way for years, and had to learn the hard way. Thirdly, she does not want you fighting for the marriage. The way you currently see fighting for your M, is actually you fighting what she wants.......and the results are you and WW fighting each other. That's what it boils down to, when people say they want to "fight" for their M. I want to challenge you to think of fighting for your M in a brand new way. Okay?

And like she said in the conversation the next day is that she wants me to sign because she is afraid I will retaliate in the D in some way vs an amicable non contested split.

All she wants right now is the D, so any other moves to show her how much you still care and want the MR, is useless. However, this statement about her being afraid you will retaliate is an old WW trick. It's her way of trying to manipulate you from protecting yourself in the D proceedings. She wants everything she can get, and doesn't want any protest from you. She knows good & well you still love her, and she figures you are vulnerable enough to give her anything she asks......even if only a signature.

I am willing to sign to show her that is not my intention and maybe make a gesture to help her regain some trust in me

First of all, you have things turned around backward. She is the one who betrayed the trust in the MR. Right? So then why do you feel you have to do something to prove she can trust you? I'll tell you why. B/c this is how waywards manipulate. They will twist & turn the truth and play on the feelings of the LBH. Get your head on straight. She deceived you. She is in an affair. She broke the trust, not you. She is trying to manipulate you into signing the D papers for her.

Although I don't understand why she doesn't trust me, which hurts alot cause I am a very open and honest and non vindictive person

Exactly!

But it suggests to me that I am doing something which makes her not trust me. Its just so hard because I feel like signing is also saying I give up and that my M and any hope of Rec. is evaporating in front of me.

The key word there is "suggests". This all came from her manipulation. I want you to stop seeing yourself the way she is trying to paint you. You know what kind of man you are, so don't listen to her twisted accusations.

I can also see how the in person we had before the call where I was detached and following your rules actually worked alot better. Even though it was about something I didn't want to happen how I handled it was a 180 and if I had just stayed the course and went home and cried my eyes out for a day I wouldn't have lost the 16 days of forward momentum I had gained. Instead here I am at day #1 again argh

Your biggest enemy is not your WW, or the OM, or a divorce. Your biggest enemy is your emotions. You cannot rely on them, and you certainly cannot allow them to dictate your actions. Stop following your feelings while you go through this crisis. Okay?

[Ste7e]

Ok thanks for the direction V I was always bad at creating learning objectives also when making class lessons too.
I like the affirmation method you used so I tried to lead off each goal with one.

1.) Be emotionally sober and don't allow my anxiety to derail me

Because I can be in control of my emotions and have agency. I will continue to see an IC once a week to learn coping mechanisms and when I am feeling anxious excuse myself to calm down.

2.) Get a job in the field I want to be in so as to find some fulfillment in my life beyond my W

I am talented and a diligent worker so I will alot 2 hours of time daily to researching and applying for jobs. In addition, I will seriously consider moving for a good opportunity and create spreadsheets of costs and expenses to be able to do so this week.

3.) Stop trying to manipulate my W to be in the R live and let live

Because the sitch with my W is beyond my control I will focus on my own life and will stop pursuing my W and follow Sandi's rules in relation to my W. If I get pulled into a confontation I will excuse myself and work on journaling my emotions so that I do not seek anything from W.

4.) Curb my jealousy and untrusting behaviors to everyone
I really liked this V

I am confident in myself so that I evaluate relationships regularly, the people in my life are trustworthy and I give and receive trust appropriately by evaluating each relationship every year. I will not inquire about potential OM with my W because this undermines my confidence.

5.) Act as if I am moving on with my life and eventually that will become a reality

Because I deserve happiness I will focus on my own life through getting a job, playing music, writing, hanging out with friends and other activities I will eventually create a busy life which is enjoyable whereby I will not be sitting idle and waiting on my W.

[Ste7e]

Sandi

You said:
"First of all, you have things turned around backward. She is the one who betrayed the trust in the MR. Right? So then why do you feel you have to do something to prove she can trust you? I'll tell you why. B/c this is how waywards manipulate. They will twist & turn the truth and play on the feelings of the LBH. Get your head on straight. She deceived you. She is in an affair. She broke the trust, not you. She is trying to manipulate you into signing the D papers for her."

I have a couple questions about this? V read my sitch and said she thought I was dealing with a WAW but you are saying WW can you tell me why you think that? Does the difference matter in how I deal with W? Also why do you think she is having an A? She said she isn't and I am not snooping so I only have her word?

This is murky waters for me as I had accused my W in the past because I was really paranoid by my previous R where my GF had cheated on me a bunch. This is stuff I am working on with my IC But my paranoia was unfounded with my W at the time and fully in my head. Maybe all the trust stuff from her now is projection?


And Yes I do feel quite manipulated by all this. I am very weak right now and she is using that against me.

[sandi2]

I have a couple questions about this? V read my sitch and said she thought I was dealing with a WAW but you are saying WW can you tell me why you think that? Does the difference matter in how I deal with W? Also why do you think she is having an A? She said she isn't and I am not snooping so I only have her word?

I may have gotten your sitch confused with another one. I thought you spoke of her being disrespectful, and starting an A.

I read your thread about a week ago, but obviously, I need to read it again. I'll, get back with you.

[sandi2]

The WW is not defined by whether or not she has an affair. It begins in the heart of a W who has strong resentment and disrespect toward her H. Her mindset is wayward, and she is selfishly motivated. First signs of her resentment and disrespect usually show in the way she talks to her H, attitude, and general treatment of him. Having an affair is an act of her rebellion.

Is it possible to be wayward and not be in an affair? Absolutely! Read what I said above. Some authors refer to it as the hard hearted woman. Look up the definition of wayward.

I am very hesitant to give you advice at this time, b/c you have been so confused and bounced from MLC to WAW to WW back to WAW.

For now, I think you need to stop trying to label her, b/c it messes too much with your head. You need to get your own head straight, and work through your childhood issues. Currently, she is not attracted to you......and it has nothing to do with your size (BTW, good job at losing 40 lbs). I think you will have to find that healthy emotional balance you spoke about in one of your posts, before having a successful relationship like you desire.

[Jim1234]

Steve, just a couple of thoughts.

If you are miserable in your job, and can't find something comparable where you live, go take the job your friend is offering. If you and W R, then you can figure out where to go from there, but at least you are now in the field you want to be in, rather than stuck in a job you hate.

Are they your cats? If your W doesn't want them, tell her she has until XXX, and then you are going to take them to a shelter. They are not your problem, and you are not going to accept responsibility for them. She wants the D, and she needs to accept responsibility for the consequences.

I have a very hard time detaching, and I think it's because I still see W a lot through friends and the kids. I see some of the same thing with you. If going dark is a cheeseless tunnel, I don't know what to tell you, but it will be harder for you to detach.

If she feels trapped, give her tons of space. Moving away might help. You might tell her that you are giving her space, and won't call her, but she could call you. I don't know. That might be terrible advice, putting you squarely in the spineless friend zone.

But just like you noticed, one good night's sleep can make all the difference. Whatever you do, you don't need to rush into it. You didn't get to this point overnight, and nothing you do RIGHT NOW will change it.