25yrsMLC 10yrsLater I FILE/Div X marries OW #10

[kml]

Ah, the cry of the narcissist.

Sounds a lot like my ex.

So long as we all made him look good and went along with his plans things were hunky dory. But since all of our kids have issues as adults (some caused or worsened by his infidelity and eventual departure from the marriage, some worsened by his behaviors after the divorce towards our kids) he does the bare minimum for them and one hasn't spoken to him for almost three years now.

He's declining to help pay for the one final year of schooling (MSW) for our middle child - a straight A student who has overcome many obstacles - and said child is actually kind of relieved to take out loans for that half, because it means he no longer has to hold his tongue around his father and can say what he feels.

I'm sure he thinks I've poisoned the kids against him but nothing is further than the truth - I've always tried to paint his behavior in the best possible light, and failing that, put it down to his concussions and possible CTE. And he cries poor to the kids when they are well aware he makes about $350k a year (plus his new wife works).

It hurts to see them hurt our kids, and hurts to think we made such a poor choice for their father. Still you, like me, got some good years out of your marriage. It wasn't all bad and the best thing you can model for your kids is moving on in a healthy way. My kids all see me as a rock and a wonder and they delight in the fact that I've become the touring musician in the family. The example you set for them is the most powerful thing you can do.

[25yearsmlc]

thank you

(((( ))))

[25yearsmlc]

yes it kills to know we made such odd poor choices. Oh how blind I was.

KML, I tell myself "oh but you did have those extra years with the kids, (the daughters at least) and they remained in one home in the same area, so that is something".

And it is. But I cannot help but wonder what it would have meant to THEM, let alone me,

to have left earlier and stayed in the area, albeit NOT in a mansion (which x h chose, I swear)

but in a condo or small home of some kind still safe, and still with the same friends and MAYBE me in a new healthy r, and Or me in a career that I could use now.

Instead, they have many more memories of a "walking on egg shells" environment whenever x was around AND his weird mood swings, and their resentment towards me for letting that happen

and RAGE and pain towards him. His last letter - honestly, Elle, wtf?

Was he trying to fire them? I fear that is the case,

AND OR

did his new family need evidence that he "had tried" with his kids and that explains why they were not invited to the joyous wedding...

AND look how loyal to THEM, he is...insisting they be treated with respect or else he is "done"...

Or did he think that our kids would slap their foreheads and say "OMG dad is right! All this time our mom has brainwashed us against him - but he was a GREAT dad!!"

All those "mundane" events he attended... (great wording X. Who helped him write that tripe?? I hope it was all him, or he's married someone of his own caliber)

Elle, Jesus I could barely believe he wrote AND sent that letter. He also says he is in therapy and I have to wonder 1) IF its true at all, versus radung an article or letting OW's T tell him how great he was/is

or what type of T...(please, X, do as I did, and let our kids talk to your T!!

It ain't easy but it's way more productive and real...)

So, how can I support them best as their mom, while maintaining my own inner rage at his lying and the knee jerk reaction I have to explain why is lies are lies?

I mean, s31 said "Mom, you don't need to rebut this. We know it's false and more gaslighting " -( a term you wish you child never knew - )

but the words about his NEW family and what THEY have been through (I assume from their past b/c if it is OUR divorce, he has no one to blame but himself and anything else is pure delusion)

ignoring his own kids...wow, okay I'm just venting now.

It's one thing to be a narcissist, which one author says we all need a little bit of, (he argues that a bit of ego and belief in some specialness about ourselves in adolescence can help and he's not totally off base)

but it's another thing to believe your own lies and have the ability to harm others with your pursuit of the ever fleeting contentment of YOURS....


that's one test for all of us. "Is MY happiness the center of my world and what I expect to be the center of OTHER's worlds?"

because in my ex h's case, HIS happiness was the goal for him, no matter the cost AND in his mind, I think, it SHOULD be everyone's goal.

He said to our d20 "don't you care about MY happiness?" as if there were no costs to others, of importance (which sukks to realize b/c the discard of me and our 35 marriage is glaring and painful, but reminds me to make sure I choose more deeply next time IF and When I choose...

BUT to which d20 said, "No, I know what you want me to say. But I care less about YOUR happiness and way more about your honesty, and living an authentic life". So tell me when you see a T...."

Btw, x claims he is now seeing a T. I seriously doubt he is at all, or if he is, it's not about what he has done, it's about his NEW family and how to avoid doing his crappy behavior
to more women in his life..or just leaving out gaping holes in the narrative...

I know it's petty but one lie he wrote in his letter to OUR children (who know the truth!) was that he divorced me.

Now, like I said, no biggie, he did leave for Alaska and I only filed when I realized he had blocked me from the bank accounts. And his last comments were about how we'd "reboot the marriage" and that I'd "come running up to Alaska within a year" which he also told d20.

So maybe he expected or feared his new wife would read it...or he has told her that HE divorced me...whatever, but what a weird lie to tell OUR kids...I mean, they do not have amnesia and the divorce papers, IF you want to read crap like that, do tell the truth.

Just so weird...like it's a lie but it is provably false and yet he keeps repeating it, like the 'never been unfaithful" and the "I was volunteering" at work...

guess it's another "why??" question never to be answered satisfactorily so I best not keep asking it.

The kids are troubled by it (the letter was a nutty kick in the face) and that set me back.

But I also TRY to show them what healing and moving on looks like. I sent d28 a picture -

a beautiful picture of an autumn tree losing its leaves. And the caption is -

"The trees are about to show us how lovely it is, to let things go."


anyhow thanks for listening.

[kml]

Yeah they have to rewrite history because otherwise there would be NO WAY to justify or live with their behavior.

And lord knows narcissists are all about finding ways to feel good about themselves.
(My narcissist was an insecure narcissist - deep in his heart he didn't feel he was enough, so his efforts were all about getting the approval from the outside world. So the public show was really important - his best male friend once called him a "God among men" lol - but private charity out of the public eye was not his forte. )

[OwnIt]

I am so happy to see that you are having this discussion. Yes, too many people in everyday life throw around the word narcissist for every self-centered behavior. Others refuse to discuss labels of any kind. But, there are people who very clearly meet the disorder and it is important to recognize that because you have to change the way you do things when you deal with these people.

Keep reading the articles on the narcissist's new woman and you will not need to worry that he is getting help for his happy life with her. Narcs enjoy therapy, until it gets real. Its like play-acting. IF he is going, it is because she is making him. There is nothing wrong with a narc so why would he ever go unless he had to.

Even though it is hard to admit it, yes, your kids probably would have been better off if you had lived the smaller, more stable, less eggshell crunchy life. But you can't rewrite the past and if you keep second-guessing what you did with the best of intentions for the people you love the most in this world, you will remain trapped in that place with him.

The most important part of this is that you are OUT and DONE and he has shown your children exactly who he is and what he is all about and it ain't them. You have a life to live. A glorious one. Full of love, laughter, and family. Three things your X will never truly have in his own life.

[BluWave]

Wow, 25, just wow. I am finding myself pitying (not sympathizing. PITY) your XH. Sigh. He is only focused on what is in front of him (new W and D) and is oblivious to the affects on his own children. He is potentially destroying his Rs with his kids. How terribly sad for him, because it IS HIS LOSS. Yes, it will be hard on them, but they have strong characters as you describe and they have authentic Rs with you, their mom.

I too wonder about these personality disorders and do we over-diagnose them to describe someone. I am not sure. I do agree with Own. I also was thinking that if a person is a narcissist, or if they are not, they will still have to face the same consequences of their choices. Even if their thought process is off compared to most, they still have to put mental energy into justifying what they are doing. Those thought processes, defensiveness and mental warfare, harms our own psyche. This reflects in who we show the world we are. AND, they still have to face the same consequences and feel the same losses. He may feel very justified in his position, but that does not come without expenses and negative consequences, is what I am suggesting.

This made me think about my mom and her two sisters. None of them talk (my mom is 70 and the youngest) and for as long as I can remember there has been drama with one or the other. My mom talks about one that has "boarderline PD" and she says it as tho it's factual. I have no doubt they feel she has a personality disorder too. It's sort of ironic to me how they all point fingers at each other and blame shift and justify their reasons for not having a relationship with each other. The only fact really is that they are all hurting to some extent and they are all missing out on having any Rs with their own sisters. How sad! My mom has trouble seeing that even if she feels like a victim to someone (in many of her Rs) she is still accountable for her part in the R and the way she handles it. And sadly, she does not have many people in her life that are close to her.

It takes a strong character for someone to look at their actions and choices in life and to be accountable. Even if we are wronged or a victim, we can still look at our own part and we can still make some improvements. It also feels good to live with this integrity and it draws more people that are similar to us. ... Your H in time will have shallow Rs and miss out on the most important ones with his kids, and the silver lining is you don't have to have an R with him anymore. You can now find (if you choose) a better and stronger man that has integrity.

Blu

[Vanilla]

I have no empathy or sympathy for the sparkly turd.

Dump him from all thoughts, flush his awful stink away.

Your kids are old enough now, you can spit out these [censored] sandwiches. Let it go the way it should down the sewer. Don't care who or what he is. How he treats OW or her poor D.

Move to the land of Neh and Meh. As fast as you can.

Expect more dung as his demands aren't met. Smellier and more liquid out of all orifices.

You love, that is never wasted. Love turns a sparkly turd into a gold ingot. Be proud of your love, it's awesome when it can do that. But you can let it go now.

V

[25yearsmlc]

25years,

I will write more ASAP but I'm just wondering is the new wife much younger than you? I saw your post about him being public with her whereas he previously wasn't with you. Perhaps if she's younger he's trying to show off to everyone like "hey look at me with my younger woman!" It seems like that'd fit with his personality.


Actually new wife is within a few years of my age. A few years younger but definitely in her 50's (or she just looks that age... )

She is not more attractive than me, and I say that b/c I was curious of course. From what 100% of the people who have looked say, I'm "significantly" more attractive. I have never once looked at their posts but am told they are over the top & are "active Alaskans" types.

I'm smarter, I'm more educated and I'm a hell of a lot funnier. She does not have a college degree.

New wife Works in some form of cosmetic place where they do facials and fillers and botox which of course x the DOCTOR can administer and I would bet he's been working at her place for the "retirement" charade, in addition to other income hiding issues. Oh well.

I'm told she has had some type of fillers and face work that according to those who saw, did not pan out well. That she "looks weird."

What I gather from this^^ is insecurity in her about looks & or aging - which we all have but do not all keep working on with fillers and surgeries...

I don't take joy in this^^ (well, okay, maybe a little) but actually feel sorry for her. She thinks she's getting a great guy MD and a Doctor's wife lifestyle --- but since he blames me for taking "the vast majority of HIS life savings" (WTF???) his finances are shot and the kids are NOT To ask him for money...

She's getting a bitter man who is always striving and never arriving.
He will never, ever have enough money and so, although he has much more than I do, he also "needs more" b/c he cannot be satisfied with owning a home and traveling and enjoying life.

he Always, ALWAYS blames someone else for his mistakes, even when the mistake is blindingly obviously only HIS...and now he blames his own children for choices he made over my/their objection...like living away from home during the week. To complain about how he'd drive 200 miles home on Fridays "speeding home, often dangerously hoping to make everyone happy" - overlooks that I did NOT want him to live up there AND he promised it was going to be a 6 month gig, not 5 years...

I don't think his pride will allow him to leave her but he cannot sustain happiness for long, so who knows? Maybe she will bolt. He described himself to our kids as a "glass half full" type of guy...ironic, since he was clearly so dissatisfied with all of us. He belittled & undermined me & criticized the kids OFTEN. His encouragement was odd too. And narcissistic in that he'd tell our s31 (when s31 won a state championship in wrestling) that s31 "can now go to the Olympics."


Let the kid enjoy his win and move on. S31 did not want to spend the next 5 years wrestling 8 hours a day and getting his face smashed and not having a social life, at all. S31 was done and then made to feel like he had disappointed his father INSTEAD of being happy about a huge achievement. X also felt our d28 could be a great movie star

INSTEAD of appreciating that she is a truly gifted actress. Money and fame are not her goals.

My stand up comedy was - evidently - supposed to lead to me getting a sitcom??

I mean, x seems to see it as a failure on my end instead of something I do for the joy of performing my own material.

THIS^^^ is very sabotaging to people.

Regardless of how x now treats his "new family",

all I DO KNOW is that he was terrible to me the past few years and if I'd known in 2006 what I Know now, I'd have cut him loose and moved on.

He damaged our children and I enabled that to happen, for which I am very sorry.

New wife has recently gained weight and my guess is that within a year if not sooner, x will comment about it. She has breast implants which used to turn him off, and at least one tattoo, which he detested. The way to ensure her dependency and admiration of him will be a mix of undermining comments disguised as "encouraging" her to lose weight/work out BE HEALTHY, etc

mixed in with some publicly shown gifts or trips to prove how he really loves HER...

Good luck...



It's so sad that you spent so many years of your life with someone like that, but I also saw your post about planning to go overseas. That sounds great! If you'd like to teach English then Qatar or Dubai would offer high standards of living. Jordan would be a nice place to help refugees while staying safe and having access to good quality medical care. In the past when I've had problems and gone overseas I found the distance helped a lot. I likely would have asked my husband to agree to me taking our daughter to go overseas now for a few years if I didn't have health problems that required me to stay for the time being.

It sounds like you have exciting times ahead!

Thanks!

I'm planning on leaving in the fall. I admit that the uncertainty of where I'm heading is starting to bug me more.

I like to research places I'm traveling to (half the fun) and would also feel a lot more settled if I knew. Plus I want to bring my dog.

D20 is having some severe emotional issues and I am heading up to see her (9 hour drive WITH our dog...per D20's strong requests = "great mom" points). It has occurred to me that this may not be a great time for me to go overseas vis a vis her, but I also think there's value in her seeing me follow my dreams and making my own difference.

The email from x to the kids really hurt them. After he gaslighted them re the marriage, (as if they were not there!), he ranted about how much HE had sacrificed FOR THEM "always their best interests" - and that he "bled" for them and "is exhausted."

Who writes that to their kids?

I showed my T the email and she said she was "so sorry" that our kids and I had to read this.

Then she set it down and told me "Now you know. You have hard evidence that he's not a normal person, he's not rational and he's not well. You cannot talk rationally to someone who is irrational. THIS is a ranting piece. He's ranting and blaming THEM and you...

and if they do not buy into his narrative he will refuse to have a relationship with them at all, & your kids must treat his new family with "respect asthey have been through a lot."

(To me this = "say nothing that contradicts my narrative AND be nice to your replacements or you won't get to be on the team at all.")

This insight^^ from my T helped me detach a great deal and to take things much less personally.

Here is what my s31 wrote back to his dad i n response to the group email:



Thank you for sending this. It clarified a lot for me. I accept that you meant everything you said, and while I think you're tragically doubling down on conflict avoidance- mostly within yourself, it's not my responsibility to convince you of anything. My happiness can't hinge on you seeing the light. Having the tough, honest conversations and sincerely working through problems together is the only way to have a healthy relationship, and unfortunately your letter reflects an inability for that to occur. Time has shown, and these ultimatums further solidify, the inappropriate conditions only under which you are willing to be a father, and rather than try to explain that that's not how fatherhood works, I accept you and release you from it. If you ever look in the mirror, don't hate yourself. Just be honest.




If I got a letter like that ^^ from any of my kids, I'd head right over to my T office, and or a local bar.

It would definitely wound me BUT I am also certain that I'd look at myself really hard.

In my better more grace filled moments, I do pity x. I think he's gone off the deep end.

And at some point in his life I believe he will regret this all so very much,

but I also believe I'll never know of that, b/c he will always blame me for his losses. His pride and utter inability to humble himself in any form (which is mandatory for honest growth, imo) will prevent him from admitting it was due to his own flaws.

What x refers to as his "conflict avoidance to keep the peace" which still makes him a victim

was really dishonesty and cowardice. And until that is admitted it won't change and his whole life up there is now built on a lie.

Going forward,
I'll be Living my life authentically without any shame, and that is true freedom.

[kml]

Wow- S31 NAILED it!!!!!! That was brave of him.

I had to see my ex for the first time in a year yesterday at my son's graduation and honestly, I could barely look at him or be civil - all I could think of is what a jerk he has been over not helping to pay youngest son's health insurance.

As for OW and her fillers - omg, when I lived in La Jolla, there were far too many women who'd had way too much work done. And they start to look all lumpy and out of kilter - start to cross into uncanny valley territory!

(Mind you, I'm not knocking women who get a facelift or nose job or such if it really makes them happy - just that far too many ruin their faces by compulsively fiddling with them.)

[25yearsmlc]

definitely brave KML, and yes s31 hit it on the head.

I'm sorry for you on the graduation day. Do you ever wonder how you failed to see the differences in your x before?

As you know and relate to, to US, our children are precious blessings and we always put them first. X SAYS that's what he did but it's patently false.

And OR worse, he thinks the way he acted IS putting them first and that means he equates what HE himself wants for himself as the goal of all family members.. which is true narcissism. I did not get until recently that he and I truly do NOT share the same values and we do not see the world the same way at all.


His telling our kids how much he loves his new family is so odd and utterly lacking in empathy that it is, again, a narcissistic trait I failed to pick up on sooner.

I know I smoothed his social interactions often when he was abrupt or abrasive b/c I told myself he was "eccentric" and that I simply had better social skills, but in reality he needed me to do that or he'd have had few friends.

RE money and insurance
I'm paying for d20's meds and co-pays as it is. AND X underpays me by about $3450 per month which is about what I'm paying for d20, weirdly. (It'll take up to a year before the gov sends me my pension share directly. Meanwhile - I must rely on the most unreliable "family man" on earth for it, which means I have to file in court for it or he'll keep being a jerk. OMG smh again. )


Once she finishes college next year, I'm SURE I'll be the one to pay for her medical insurance until she's 26 ( She needs it the most and God knows x will not do it.)

X is living his new "25 free" life and all is well. Says he "breathes the freedom of 25 in with satisfaction"

as if telling the children that living free of THEIR mother, is something that will please them or sound normal or kind. WHO THINKS THAT WAY??

oh I know who? The man I married and stayed married to for over 3 decades....ugh

x hated how his own mother was treated by his dad when they divorced. X felt bitter about it AND -- although X never said a word to his dad about that, of course,

I and the kids all know because x told us more than once...

that ^^ is sort of fascinating to me. SO NOW X can be happy as the obstacle to his joy in life (me) has divorced him...

X also SAYS he is "in therapy now, and rapidly moving past this."

Really? Wow...

1) I am not sure if I believe him at all, b/c he's a practiced liar who seems to believe what he says or thinks we should b/c he's entitled to be believed no matter how insane or blatant the lie;

2) x may consider "therapy" to be reading an article or two,

or seeing a pre marriage counselor about blending families - a few times...(blending of course, would require that our children have a R with him,... so...)

AND

3) see how fast x is moving on? He should get an A+++...!! He is so SO healthy he barely needs this! In fact X is teaching the therapist some insightful things...x IS a DOCTOR, you know...


I don't need x to be miserable and or to see the light for MY life to be good. But I tried to decode him (and will stop )

I had to ask rhetorically, what truly contented person sees a therapist AND sends an email to his kids- in which he rants and rants and blames them in part and

WHO takes NO accountability at all for any of HIS unilateral choices (choices made over my strong objections--which is when I should have fled)??

3 Adult children who know our history and whom he has not seen in well over a year, got that email and it is NOT the letter of a healthy happy or normal man.

I'm betting x does not show his T (IF there is a T) the reply from s31...

At the moment I shake my head and think "what a tortured soul x is." And as his once upon a time bf friend, (because I was his friend even though I had no idea he was not mine)

I am sad for him. But before I go all dark on myself -

I remember what he wrote and how embittered he has become and how nasty he was when I was sick (my illness was never mentioned in his email, btw...not even once)

then I say - good riddance to the "lunacy, always served with a side dish of contempt."

I'm like that cop on patrol in a scary neighborhood -- BUT NOW I know my partner is gone and decided to be a fireman somewhere else...and so I have created my own back up.

Besides - it's better and more grace filled to remember who I thought he once was and maybe who he really was,

before the inner struggle between the authentic loving way to live,

and the deceitful, selfish resentful greedy side - won out. Maybe it got hard to keep the facade up or maybe this is how he lives for the rest of his life.

I have no idea how x could have acted with such cognitive dissonance, but he did. And For a very long long time.

Maybe it sukks to be x and maybe that's karma, OR maybe he will never fully realize the harm he did to the 4 people who loved him the most. Maybe he emerges unscathed, though the email sounds far from it.

while It would be tragic if x never learns from this and never tries to TRULY reach out to the kids as a man working to atone...

what would be far far worse and what IS within MY control

is me & my children living our own lives well. Living without the pollution of insecurity and fear, and walking on egg shells, playing the guessing game of what NOW will ease his eternal restlessness, and feeling shame about choosing my kids over money for x...

The "Pick Us!" dance is over. I'm increasingly okay with that.

Oh and My T had a great metaphor to stop me from constantly going back to regretting and asking myself "but What iff???"

She said

"Hawaii is a very beautiful island with lush greenery. But if you are there now, it's spewing lava. You must get out of the way or the lava will kill you. Run away from the lava spewing... and don't keep looking back to see if the lush island is all better now."

X sent an email filled with spew and self pity and bitterness. X is hot lava that burns those in its' path. I'm getting out of the way and staying out and I hope the kids do too.

I'm driving up to see our d20 now, b/c that's what good parents do.

We show up. We keep on loving. We don't attach terms, we don't abandon, we don't reject, we don't erase or replace. Ever.