You make a lot of sense Blu...IF my ultimate goal here was simply trying to get WAW to go to the concert with me. That, however, is not my ultimate goal...R is. So the "games" as you perceive them, are essentially tactics to not appear needy or in any way dependent on her or any choice she makes. A "whatever" type attitude with her. The second that she sees me as needy, gone are my chances of increasing any existing level of attraction she has to me,; which again is the true goal here. So yes, if it came down to me eventually having to point blank ask WAW for R, then yes, tactics such as you described being used in that context would be games at that point. There would be no pride to preserve and nothing to gain...it would be crunch time...R or no R time.
The current concert situation, however, requires me to merely enjoy my picnic by the lighthouse...which I will with Sue, it will be a blast.
So basically whether or not WAW goes to the concert with me is not at all paramount to my ultimate goal of R. It would be nice but I'm not going to ask her a second time 4 days before the show...that clearly reeks needy to me. Any hope of R is to let WAW see that I am happy with or without her and NOT needy. That I am confident and independent, which, all of the above, I truly am because of DBing...that's why I've kept coming back here to this wonderful site after 4 years of moving on. So I don't see this as games...I see it as a plan of action to achieve R. Concerts and whatever else comes up are just means to an end. I'm not at a place where I need to make such rash decisions and guarantee reducing myself to a needy wimp who is so desperate to go to the concert with just her and her alone that he asks her a second time days before the show. Yeah I'm pretty sure that method would destroy me in her eyes LOL!
Thanks so much for your lengthy thoughts Blu and taking the time to write. One thing you are right about is I love for me ...not WAW or anyone else. I traveled and endured a rotten ordeal and survived to be content with life again...and for that I am immensely proud of myself. I want WAW but I don't need WAW. That's what DBing did for me. Made me a man again who is happy with himself...not dependent on WAW in any way.
ME: 43 W:44 M 13 years on 5-5-01 T 18 years BD 4/27/14 D papers served 5/5/14 (how appropriate a date) WAW moved out 5/12/14 Papers filed 6/27/14 Divorce granted 07/17/14 Our marriage ends 11/17/14
Everything you do will be visible, I know you think it's a plan not a plot. That's your view. A lot of what the LBS does is transparent to the walkaway. And to them it can seem more of the same, more control.
If and when W wants to R then you will know.
Let it unfold in time, cease being director and producer. It can backfire.
Flow.
My thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I agree with Blu and V. What else are these than mindgames? Is Sue the best option to go with you, because she is an attractive girl so you can show it in FB or because she is the person you have most fun in this concert? The first is a mindgame, the second is not. Do you have a lot of pictures from events like this with other females as well or would you post them just to show it, with low amount of pictures prior? In the first case it would be appropriate, in the second one you would be pathetic. The sole fact that you planned this is rather pathetic. The fact is that it does not matter who you go into the concert with, male or female. Which brings me to my next point.
Being needy is not asking a person out multiple times. Being needy is not showing interest in someone who you find attractive. Being needy is that you ATTACH an EXPECTATION to it and convey that message via your actions, subtle cues or direct messages. You plan it beforehand and then subconsciously get hurt if the person denies you. When you attach no end result to the action, you cannot be needy.
Also, if Sue is an attractive girl that you find fun company and she probably is single, would you be open to dating her? Have you considered her feelings, is she just really on friend basis or possibly attracted to you?
You have lived 4 years without your WAW and to me it seems you have become a bit too attached again. Stop controlling what happens and live your life. I can see only three outcomes of acting like you have written. Either she sees you with another girl and makes too quick decisions related to you, thus acts from a need rather than a want. Or she sees right through this and finds it pathetic. Or she sees you with another girl and decides you probably were not really interested. I do not see an outcome where she finds you more attractive and wants to genuinely recon. Now, you can go with Sue of course but go because you want to, not because you want to rub it in your XWs face.
As always, this is my opinion.
In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced 2 young kids new relationship
Been thinking on this a bit so let me play devils advocate What if the band is a trigger for ExW of OR She hasnt gone to see them in 4 years after all What if she has moved on from them and is into something new you hate Peoples likes really change in 4 years What if she thinks they are childish now Are you still interested in her even if she cant be part of your band thing The band should be your thing not your couple thing
My advice is dont ask her again and go with a male friend and post a lot of pictures of you just having fun being alive
M 40 W 34 Together 7 Married 2 No Kids BD 1/18 need space Moved out 2/18 ILYBNILWY & Asked for D 3/18 W filed for D 6/18 D final 10/18
Hmmmm very interesting perspectives here. Firstly yes I do have a lot of fun with Sue. We've always had fun together. Although we have gone beyind friendship in the past, we are just friends now. But yes she is a lot of fun to hang out with so that's why I wanted to take her. We've been friends since high school. So I asked Sue to go because she's gone with me in the past and we had an amazing time. Yes I have posted pics with Sue before as well as other women before I was in a committed relationship with Mary for a couple years. Then my posts were basically just typical posts of things Mary and I used to do as WAW was not really in my head at that time like she is now again. So yes in the past there have been photos of women on my page but also pics with my guy friends too.
WAW is still into the band. She had complained during my first visit with her that she didn't have any of their DvDs... that I had them all. So that's why I brought some DVDs over to her last Saturday and we watched a couple of them. She wanted to borrow a couple of them so I left some with her. So yes she still loves the band. Her reason for not going to see them in 4 years was that she "wasn't ready for that." That's when I asked her and she seemed unsure. So I didn't push the issue. However even if WAW didn't like them anymore it wouldn't be a big deal to me. We certainly aren't defined by a band...it was just a ritual of sorts for us to go see them.
Having said that, I do see your points here. Maybe I'm just putting too much planning into this. I think what I need to do is just go about this the same way I did the past 4 years when I went and saw the band. Just go and have fun. It seems I may be backsliding a bit in my thoughts on this. Too much focus on WAW and not enough focus on how much great fun I'm going to have no matter who I go with.
So here's my plan...I'm not making one. I'm going to the concert and having a blast...just like I have the past 4 years. My pics and videos from the show will be limited and only of the event itself so I can enjoy the memories made for myself. I refuse to spiral out of control over a concert. It is ridiculous. I think it's best not to make a big deal about it anyway. I'll post the normal types of pics people post from concerts and that's it. I'm not going to turn my post into a "hey WAW look at me having fun with some other girl at the show. Too bad you didn't come" type of thing. I am very much looking forward to the show no matter who is with me. Thanks everyone for bringing me back down to Earth before I did something pathetic and stupid. I truly appreciate your remarks everyone.
ME: 43 W:44 M 13 years on 5-5-01 T 18 years BD 4/27/14 D papers served 5/5/14 (how appropriate a date) WAW moved out 5/12/14 Papers filed 6/27/14 Divorce granted 07/17/14 Our marriage ends 11/17/14
You guys, is this serious? lol. This does not read like a thread written by mature 40-somethings, but more like a group of teenagers trying to trick the popular girl into liking him! I mean think about it, IH, have you not already done the hard work of DB-ing? That was 4 years ago right? And even then, don't we learn not to DB to win them back or fool them into thinking something about us? The point is to take the focus off them and live for you.
Okay, so here is my difference perspective, because you are in a different position than most of the posters. Ever heard the phrase, "keep it simple, stupid!"? I don't think it really matters who you take and what she will think about them, what photos you take and post, and how that will affect her attraction to you. I mean what are you actually afraid will happen? ... Because your mental energy analyzing all these details is the only issue I see here. ... You are good now, you don't need to stress about all this!
Quite simply, who do you want to go with most? Your XW, right? SO JUST ASK HER! Quit playing games! Have no expectations and be confident. And if she can't go, no big deal, then you shake it off, ask the next person, and you still get to have a good time.
Ask the person you will have the best time with, not the hot girl to make her jealous. And if you happen to take photos and you happen to feel like posting them, then do so, but not for any reason that has to do with her or what she will think. None of these choices should be made based on what you think her reaction will be.
These are the actions of a confident and strong man! Ask the right girl for you and be okay with her saying no.
LIVE FOR YOU. No more games!
Blu
3
Agree 100% with this! For real, using social media and an event to make her jealous. Too high school.
Go, have fun, don't worry about pictures, or social media.
Just live. I really think half of this world has stopped living in the moment because of social media. It is very transparent.
The center of the issue is that Ithurts has worked for 4 years to find a place of peace and happiness without WAW and he doesn't want to lose that. This is the most important thing. And not only doesn't this conflict with the possibility of R, it is a requirement.
WAW seems to be interested but cautious. Ithurts gets to feel the same way. He's not ready to pursue aggressively because he doesn't want to lose his balance. And the deliberation over little decisions seem to me to be less about manipulating her and obsessing and more about avoiding doing everything possible to avoid obsessing and manipulating.
I do think going with another woman whom you have had some history with is questionable, but in the end WAW had you, left you, and hasn't apologized or asked for you back or done anything other than send intermittent mixed signals and temp checking. So basically nothing. Whatever you'd have done if WAW had stayed in FL is what I'd do. She's the one who left you and if anyone has been playing games it is her, so if there's a game being played it's her move to show you something more serious is going on.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I know Steve but I think it's best I don't. Just keep it simple. Document a fun event with a few photos and videos and leave it at that. Who I went with doesn't and shouldn't really matter nor be a focus. Going to this concert needs to be about me living and having fun...and I know I will have a blast. I'm letting WAW back in my head way too much and it needs to stop right now. I don't need her to be happy and i need to remember that. I don't need to keep looking away from my picnic and staring at the drawbridge to the castle waiting for it to lower again. I need to simply enjoy my picnic since everything I need to be happy is already on my blanket in my picnic basket.
ME: 43 W:44 M 13 years on 5-5-01 T 18 years BD 4/27/14 D papers served 5/5/14 (how appropriate a date) WAW moved out 5/12/14 Papers filed 6/27/14 Divorce granted 07/17/14 Our marriage ends 11/17/14
The center of the issue is that Ithurts has worked for 4 years to find a place of peace and happiness without WAW and he doesn't want to lose that. This is the most important thing. And not only doesn't this conflict with the possibility of R, it is a requirement.
WAW seems to be interested but cautious. Ithurts gets to feel the same way. He's not ready to pursue aggressively because he doesn't want to lose his balance. And the deliberation over little decisions seem to me to be less about manipulating her and obsessing and more about avoiding doing everything possible to avoid obsessing and manipulating.
I do think going with another woman whom you have had some history with is questionable, but in the end WAW had you, left you, and hasn't apologized or asked for you back or done anything other than send intermittent mixed signals and temp checking. So basically nothing. Whatever you'd have done if WAW had stayed in FL is what I'd do. She's the one who left you and if anyone has been playing games it is her, so if there's a game being played it's her move to show you something more serious is going on.
Yes this ^ Well said Zues and you are exactly right. All of this planning here is to make sure I don't make mistakes. Just making sure all my t's are crossed and I"s dotted to avoid games. You describe it perfectly sir. That's why I have taken no initiative to arrange meetups...it's been all her pushing for that and that's how it should be in my opinion. I don't text her at all unless she texts first. You seem to have my sitch figured out because that's exactly what all this planning is for..to avoid making a mistake.
ME: 43 W:44 M 13 years on 5-5-01 T 18 years BD 4/27/14 D papers served 5/5/14 (how appropriate a date) WAW moved out 5/12/14 Papers filed 6/27/14 Divorce granted 07/17/14 Our marriage ends 11/17/14
