Advice on my scenario pt. 2

[SteveLW]

"yes i drink coffee at 11pm"

Doesn't everyone? I drink it all day every day and then fall to sleep no problem.

[OrangeK]

Nights like tonight are tough. I have to pickup my son, go home to my roommates house, where i know he would prefer not having kids around, and I'm stuck at home, basically penned up in my room that i SHARE with my 3 year old, stuck inside on a friday night.
I dont even have a whole lot to keep Son entertained, as i had to ship most of his/our stuff up to my parents house when i left the apartment WW and io had Shared.

She Effing ruined everything, all for what? a fling with OM that may already be fizzling out?
Selfish Immature B***C. I know thats petty name calling, but damn is this frustrating. its a pathetic waste is what it is.
a damn waste and a damn shame.
I should have known better.

This is one of those nights we should be at home as a family, in PJ's, all cozy on the couch watching a movie together or something. Instead its either date night with OM or party night with her friends while i stay at home, struggling to keep OUR so busy and happy. languishing in poverty.

Awesome Friday night!! WooT!


Pity party is now over, carry on.

[OrangeK]

OUR Son*

[OrangeK]

I came home to ww's response to my divorce petition and ammendment from fault to no fault. In it she denies the early contact and cohabitation with om. I was also a bit amused to see that she wrote that I neglected to mention the domestic case, if she had realized that I had originally filed the first papers on January 18th and to the domestic issue did not occur until January 27th. At the end she did mention that the Court determined that we were eligible for mediation in regards to custody and she wants to participate in my mediation and reach an amicable and peaceful dissolution. it makes no mention of the recent motion to place it on hold that I filed so I wonder if that's still pending or if it got denied. despite being a fairly standard response for some reason it's got my emotions all fired up.

[OrangeK]

Not eligible*

[sandi2]

My mind has a few scenarios playing about your W, but it would all be guesswork. The most curious part I find about the relationship (that you have shared with us so far) is her hiding the pregnancy for six months. It has been reported by women who did not know they were pregnant.......that they never had the big belly. I know one woman IRL that had that experience, and she swore she thought she was just gaining some weight, but wore her regular size jeans up until she was rushed to ER......b/c she was in labor. When I was six months pregnant, I don't think I could hidden it in a moo-moo dress! But my point is that she knew she was pregnant. She was married and apparently in a happy and healthy relationship with her H. And yet, she PLANNED a hidden pregnancy! I can't help but believe there is an emotional connection in the hidden pregnancy and what happened in her past.

Do you suspect she was molested as a child/teenager? If there happened to have been a pregnancy, and if she had to keep the pregnancy a secret.........it could have caused emotional issues for her. If she carried it to term, and her parents made her give it up for adoption.......I could see why she might have some fear in letting them know about this pregnancy......and maybe even fear telling you. I mean, they would have been the ones closest to her......so I could see why she would fear or mistrust the reactions to her pregnancy.

If there was a pregnancy and if she was forced to have an abortion......it could answer why she acted so strangely. The same could be said if she had been molested.........or if there had been incest. I know I am going way out on a limb here, and I have nothing to really go on but a gut feeling. It may have been nothing of the sort that ever happened, I hope and pray it didn't. But if it did, then she could have serious emotional issues that were never addressed properly..........and were kept a secret within her family.

At the risk of sounding like I'm playing psychologist here, I will even go futher and say it would make sense why she would escape reality into the fantasy of a Disney type of life. She might have been the fairest in all the land, but if she was not emotionally mature enough at the point of getting M........it would have been difficult for her to deal with day to day reality with a home, a H, and a baby. It can be quite the let down for young brides.

One of our board members, Vanilla, is very informed about personality disorders, etc. She might read your thread and give her take on your W's behavior (before the M and since then). As I've said previously, things were not what I think as being typical.....but, maybe that's just me. If Vanilla has not posted on your thread, you might try to run her down and ask her to drop by.

How do i justifiably leave the woman i spoke an oath to, when she is sick?
That played a big role in putting the D on hold for me. That is what I don't want to do it.

Actually, she is the one that left the M and broke her vows, but I know what you are saying. I have raised two men who have the same type of morals and viewpoints about women, love, vows, etc.

I don't think someone else will be able to give you the emotional justification.......and/or the moral justification you ponder at the moment. It is something that you have to decide, and you're just not ready at this time. The decision may be taken from you, if she files for the D. But let's talk about what you wrote in your post. It really choked me up when I read the agony in your words. You are hurting so much and I hope this post won't add more pain. Until you know more about what is really wrong with your W, I am concerned it will emotionally imprison you to some extent. Not knowing if there is a mental illness or if there's some tragedy in her past that has left terrible untreated wounds..........how could it not haunt you? I may completely off base with my perceptions. There may be nothing wrong other than waywardness. if that's the case, you cannot deal with it as though she were sick.

For now, my suggestion is to not initiate D proceedings, as long as you feel this strongly. MThere is such a thing as moving forward with living.......without closing the books on your love and the marriage with your W. If you were my son, I would tell you not to pursue her, but not to slam the door shut as long as your feelings stay this strong and she's not a threat to you and your child.......and if she doesn't remarry. As a mother, I would probably want to see you move on and build a life apart from her........as a way of finding a happier life. But for now, I think focusing on having the best relationship with your son, and GAL is the best thing to do. If your W does not turn to you for help, or to take her back, then you aren't going to influence her decisions in seeking professional help. All you can do is be the lighthouse on the rock. (Have you read the lighthouse link)?

My concern is that she may try to dart in & out of your marriage (between other affairs), keeping you and your son upset. Maybe promising to get therapy or whatever, but not sticking with it. I hope you can find peace with what to do, considering the situation with her. You probably want to go whisk her away and bring her back home (the whole knight in shining armor thing)........which is also b/c you love her. Here's the thing, Orange. No matter what a terrific man you are, the problem lies in the heart/mind of your W. You can stand on your morals and standards, but it doesn't mean it will change hers. Know what I mean? I'm certainly not expecting you to change your beliefs, but neither can you force her to change. Even if she is reacting to something else, if she won't let you in.......then you can't force it. As long as you don't feel your child is in danger, you basically have to wait for her to come to you. If she does, then hopefully, you can get her to seek help. One thing is for certain, if she doesn't need individual therapy, the two of you will need a good M therapist. I hope she gets therapy first.

For a while, you may be required to love her from a distance. Give her space and take some for yourself. Space and time can do a lot of good when there's problems in the MR. Plus, if she breaks it off with the OM, she'll need a little time before her feelings change back to you. At least, that's the way it is with typical WW's.

This will sound like a stretch coming from someone who isn't religious.
Can you pray for her?
Her family is faithful, and I know if they knew the truth, they would appreciate it.

Oh, Orange! Yes, I will pray for her, as well as for you and your little boy. (((hugs)))

[NicoleR]

Hi OrangeK, I'm sorry and sad to read about your situation and to think that you and a three year old child are suffering as a result of your wife's decisions. It's unfathomable to me how a mother can do that with a toddler. Normally children are very attached to their mothers at this age and vice versa. I can't imagine spending even one night without my four year old daughter. I doubt it will ever happen. That's so unfair for you to become a single dad while your wife is out living with her boyfriend enjoying her life. This shouldn't be legal. It's so, so terrible.

As you can see on my thread, my husband did something like this two years ago but he came back depressed, saying he'd kill himself, etc.. I was so happy he came back and he made many promises that we'd fix everything but we never did and he's gone again.

I guess your wife will have to hit rock bottom before she considers changing or coming back. This will probably happen when her affair ends and there's no other man lined up for her. Hopefully that'll happen soon so at least some progress can be made.

It must be so hard and extremely difficult to focus just on being a father to your son, but he needs you more than anything in this world and has no control over what's happening to him. He's just an innocent child and what your wife is doing will affect him for the rest of his life, so you basically have to give your son extra love and extra uninterrupted (no texting or phone) play time and extra everything to give him the best shot possible to feel secure and stable. I'm trying to do this for my daughter although sometimes I'm completely exhausted. They need so much at this age!

The good news is you're young and there are plenty of single moms who'd love to find a single dad and when you find a match the two of you can raise your kids together and have the happy family you dream about.

It'd be great if your wife could soon want to fix her life and return and for now you seem to be stuck waiting for her to change, but somehow this will be temporary and hopefully either you'll reunite with your wife or you'll find someone new and still create the loving family that you and your son need.

[Vanilla]

I saw your shout out Orange I will post to you when I have read your thread.

V

[OrangeK]

She was married and apparently in a happy and healthy relationship with her H. And yet, she PLANNED a hidden pregnancy!

Our son was born Jan 2015, we were Married Sept 2016, but still. Why hid it? if she had talked to me about it i would have been open and understanding...

I can't help but believe there is an emotional connection in the hidden pregnancy and what happened in her past.

I honestly think she got pregnant because her EX from before me had gone and met someone new, they fell in love quickly, got married and had a child. I think she had one of her "fantasies" planned around this man, and it fell apart.
I feel like theres a chance aspects of WW and My relationship was to fill in where her previous relationship failed. Just a guess.

Do you suspect she was molested as a child/teenager?

I have deeply considered this possibility. If so, she never even so much as hinted towards it, but i can definitely see why you would guess at that.

She might have been the fairest in all the land, but if she was not emotionally mature enough at the point of getting M........it would have been difficult for her to deal with day to day reality with a home, a H, and a baby. It can be quite the let down for young brides.

I think this is EXACTLY the case. Explains why she was so in love and soooo ready to get married. Then 4 months later. BAM. Nopeed right out of a situation she had built and cultivated.

Actually, she is the one that left the M and broke her vows

You are right, but i still feel compelled to wait it out. for now. I have a feeling that feeling my change based on how she acts post-RO.

For now, my suggestion is to not initiate D proceedings, as long as you feel this strongly. MThere is such a thing as moving forward with living.......without closing the books on your love and the marriage with your W. If you were my son, I would tell you not to pursue her, but not to slam the door shut as long as your feelings stay this strong and she's not a threat to you and your child.......and if she doesn't remarry. As a mother, I would probably want to see you move on and build a life apart from her........as a way of finding a happier life. But for now, I think focusing on having the best relationship with your son, and GAL is the best thing to do. If your W does not turn to you for help, or to take her back, then you aren't going to influence her decisions in seeking professional help. All you can do is be the lighthouse on the rock. (Have you read the lighthouse link)?

I have read it, and its so on point with my plan of action, or lack thereof.
Im just going to take it slow and day by day.
I did a lot of counter productive things from Oct-Jan.
Its time to step back, GAL, be the lighthouse and wait.
The chips will fall when and where they are supposed to.

I am concerned it will emotionally imprison you to some extent. Not knowing if there is a mental illness or if there's some tragedy in her past that has left terrible untreated wounds..........how could it not haunt you?

I wont let it HAUNT me. Even if she is "sick", if she doesnt get herself to the point where she seeks help on her own, nobody will convince her. I learned that from living with my brothers addiction issues for 6 years.
Hard truth to swallow, but its the truth regardless.

My concern is that she may try to dart in & out of your marriage (between other affairs), keeping you and your son upset. Maybe promising to get therapy or whatever, but not sticking with it.

After reading up on boundaries, i wont let this happen.
Itll be all or nothing.
Recon or Discon.
She needs to SHOW how hard she wants things fixed if she ever does.
Sh!7 or get off the pot. Plain and simple.

Here's the thing, Orange. No matter what a terrific man you are, the problem lies in the heart/mind of your W. You can stand on your morals and standards, but it doesn't mean it will change hers. Know what I mean?

I do, and you are right. She has the issues, she is the one that went from maritally in love and talking about getting old together to ice cold, cheating and lying in 6 months time.
I know her path will continue to be a self destructive one if she doesn't change her behaviors.
She will end up like her mother, on husband #3 and miserable about it.
I will encourage self exploration when it seems conversationally appropriate someday down the line if a civil opportunity to do so presents itself.
Otherwise I need to worry about myself and my boy.

For a while, you may be required to love her from a distance. Give her space and take some for yourself. Space and time can do a lot of good when there's problems in the MR. Plus, if she breaks it off with the OM, she'll need a little time before her feelings change back to you. At least, that's the way it is with typical WW's.

I feel like all the time and space in the universe wont change much right now, but then i look at someone like ItHurts. You never know.
She asked for "space and time" in the summer, but i suspect that was just to continue her affair and get out of the house and away from me at the time. She needs to hit bottom and reflect on the debris of her life. As far as breaking it off with OM, i feel like thats 100% doomed, its just a matter of time. If she comes back to me or not is a different question.
I hate to ask the "how long" type of questions, but i have to.
How long after OM is out of picture do you typically see WW's start to look back at H? What causes the fading of OM and the re-emergence of H (if that happens that is)
Just guessing i suppose.

Oh, Orange! Yes, I will pray for her, as well as for you and your little boy. (((hugs)))

Thank you. You and the others have been such a blessing, and i dont use that word often.
I really just wish i found you all in Oct. I may be in my home with W and S right now snuggling in bed if i had.
Or i could be in worse shape.
Who knows.
Only time will tell, and im young, i have plenty.
I will be happy again, with or without her.

I will.

[OrangeK]

It's unfathomable to me how a mother can do that with a toddler. Normally children are very attached to their mothers at this age and vice versa. I can't imagine spending even one night without my four year old daughter. I doubt it will ever happen. That's so unfair for you to become a single dad while your wife is out living with her boyfriend enjoying her life. This shouldn't be legal. It's so, so terrible.

Thank you. I agree. Her decision to leave and rip his home life apart was made quite abruptly. It began to effect his behavior almost immediately, and is still having adverse effects.
I explained to her while we were still talking that she clearly put her own desires (not needs) before the emotional and developmental needs of her son. In fact i told her she clearly didn't even consider him or what effect it would have on him when she made her decisions.
The same can be said for the fact that she introduced him to OM from Day One and has maintained that. Going as far as to co-sleep with my son in OM's bed. Which i just got documentation from D court that she is denying both my claims of "inappropriate cohabitation and confusion of parental roles"
She flat out denied it even happened, and i have proof.
How the "compassionate and thoughtful" woman i fell in love what has changed to these behaviors when she claims our son "is her world" blows my mind. Her mother did similar things when W was young though, so i cant say im 100% surprised.
MIL and FIL got divorced when W was 4 and from what ive heard it was a fairly nasty divorce. MIL is on Husband #3 and FIL has been D twice, the 2nd D for him was also REALLY nasty, like REALLY bad.
W was like 18 or 19 when this one occurred.

As you can see on my thread, my husband did something like this two years ago but he came back depressed, saying he'd kill himself, etc.. I was so happy he came back and he made many promises that we'd fix everything but we never did and he's gone again.

Do you think you let things go back together too easily and didn't set boundaries? I have a fear of this happening to me.

I guess your wife will have to hit rock bottom before she considers changing or coming back. This will probably happen when her affair ends and there's no other man lined up for her. Hopefully that'll happen soon so at least some progress can be made.

Its sad to say but i am hoping and waiting for this to happen.
The only thing is that i feel she would set up another guy before leaving OM, she may tryy to make that guy me, but i dont see her leaving OM without something else to fall back on. She doesnt do well alone. AT ALL.
The only way it would really hit hard is if OM left her for some reason, and based on what i know about OM i DOUBT that will happen.
W is easily the most beautiful woman hes ever set eyes on, let alone been with. He is a big downgrade from me, and im only saying that because its a fact, no spite from me there.
I can only imagine she has him THOROUGHLY wrapped around her finger and he will likely stay that way until she is the one to get bored and unhappy like she did with me. Rinse and repeat.
She needs to hit bottom and do some SERIOUS souls searching to break this cycle.
I think it would take a larger loss to prompt this. A death in the family, or losing her job unexpectedly or something.
Who knows....

It'd be great if your wife could soon want to fix her life and return and for now you seem to be stuck waiting for her to change, but somehow this will be temporary and hopefully either you'll reunite with your wife or you'll find someone new and still create the loving family that you and your son need.

Im moving on, for myself. If she wants to fix things, (which i honestly doubt) she will have to catch up to me and do the work. She left, she has to come back. Im not chasing her EVER again. I do love her, and miss her greatly, but i feel like what i miss was an illusion, not reality.
Ill always be open to talk, but its high time i love myself first for once.

Thank you for your support!