No affair(?), no feelings...is there hope? Part II

[artista]

[quote=sandi2]
She pushed back though. Keeps asking why I have an attitude. At one point, she said something like don't be surprised if I ask you to take me to the airport one day so I can go be on my own.

and next time she says something so self-centered you can reply, "don't be surprised if i tell you call a taxi."

you have to keep up a position of confidence... what you share about your wife leaves me with my mouth wide open... she is so full of herself... how can you stand it? she doesn't want to be married to you... she is having an affair with a 19-year old... that grosses me to the nth degree... my sons are 18 and 22... both have friends that are 19... ewwwww... seriously! let him take her to the airport or get her water... or pause her television show...

don't give in to her silly demands... keep standing up for yourself and eventually you will actually BELIEVE it! you will believe in yourself... but you have to keep practicing it...

--artista

[sandi2]

Today was a day of mixed feelings for me. Emotionally, I struggled. I could tell she was texting OM most of the day. I would say the most accurate description is to say I felt discouraged.

Was she home all day, or how did you know she was texting OM? Her body language, etc.? And why were you discouraged? Good golly, you are four weeks in, just getting some information about WW's and haven't really started applying tough love yet.........and you let HER decide your mood b/c she was texting.

I was missing my W

What part are you missing?

But, on the bright side, I am making so much progress with my own growth. I picked up another book today to add to my arsenal. It is about why relationships become unbalanced. Wow, it's like the textbook I never thought existed on this topic. So much great information. Of course, it's agonizing to have all the thoughts like "why didn't I find this sooner?", "if only my W could read this!" And so on. But I am learning so much about myself as I read and now know why I have always felt like the powerless one in my relationships. Really completes the picture along with NGS, male dominance etc.

That's why I asked you why you let her determine your mood today. She texts OM all day and you miss her? I don't know how to respond to that.........at least, not nicely. I think you are doing a great job at gathering and digesting material on the subjects that pertain to your sitch.

Sandi, you'll be happy to hear that I recorded a few successes today. First, it was my turn to make dinner and I assertively asked my W if she could please help by cutting the chicken. Something that has always frustrated me is that when it's my turn to cook, she sits on her @ss watching TV while I prepare the whole meal. But when it's her turn, she drags me into it with her and I help do half of it. Well, she b'tched and moaned as expected, but best believe she was in that kitchen doing what I asked. I only needed one thing and I thanked her and told her she was free to go when she finished. Later, she came back for a snack and asked me to go pause her show while she fixed it. I'm in the middle of cooking dinner! I flat out told her no. One word. Later, she said she needed a water...I said well then go get one. I'm not your errand boy. She pushed back though. Keeps asking why I have an attitude. At one point, she said something like don't be surprised if I ask you to take me to the airport one day so I can go be on my own.

A very good job! Considering this is actually day one of using some suggestions I've offered. She acts like a spoiled bratt to me, but then I'm not the one in love with her. What did you say she when ask why you have an attitude?

I won't lie, it makes me question what I'm doing

What makes you question it? Are you referring to her snotty comment about the airport? Good grief, if you are going to let something that small cause you to question what you are doing..................Don't you know that's why you are here, to figure out what you are doing? Come on, your b@lls are trying to come through, so stop giving up and feeling defeated over some stupid remark she made. Next time, use Artista's example.

Why were you driving her to work last night? Doesn't she have a vehicle to get back & forth?

The next time she is home and has been texting all day .......especially if it's OM..........get out of there and don't go home until you know she'll be in bed. And don't answer the phone not one time when she starts blowing it up. Don't you dare go home and cook her dinner.

Guard your IPad, passwords, etc. She going to get suspicious. Let her. Just don't let her find your threads, even if you have to put it under lock and key.

Keep on keeping on!

[44tries]

and next time she says something so self-centered you can reply, "don't be surprised if i tell you call a taxi."

you have to keep up a position of confidence... what you share about your wife leaves me with my mouth wide open... she is so full of herself... how can you stand it? she doesn't want to be married to you... she is having an affair with a 19-year old... that grosses me to the nth degree... my sons are 18 and 22... both have friends that are 19... ewwwww... seriously! let him take her to the airport or get her water... or pause her television show...

don't give in to her silly demands... keep standing up for yourself and eventually you will actually BELIEVE it! you will believe in yourself... but you have to keep practicing it...

--artista

Thanks, artista. I fully intend to keep practicing it until I believe it. It has been a real eye opener to see the responses here and fully realize how spoiled and entitled she has become due to my accomodation. The sad thing is, I don't think she is spoiled at all in a general sense. She does not act that way with the rest of the world. I have created my own monster. But that does not excuse her or mean she should not be able to realize how ridiculous she has become... I totally agree with you about the A. It disgusts me too. I don't know what she is thinking, but I think she is very lost in her own unhappiness.

[44tries]

Was she home all day, or how did you know she was texting OM? Her body language, etc.? And why were you discouraged? Good golly, you are four weeks in, just getting some information about WW's and haven't really started applying tough love yet.........and you let HER decide your mood b/c she was texting.

She was home most of the day because it was her day off. I did go to the gym and run some errands, but by the afternoon I was home. I would have left the house all day, but I'm in the middle of finals and had work to do. So, I put on some headphones and closed the door to the office. Believe me, if I let her texting affecting my mood I would be in a very bad place. Yesterday, a little bit slipped through the cracks. I don't think there was a logical reason I was discouraged. Maybe just part of the roller-coaster.

What part are you missing?

I'm missing her loving side. I'm missing her coming up and giving me a hug or showing concern or caring about how I feel. I'm missing the closeness. I know these are selfish things. Sometimes I just become weary of having to have my guard up at all times. Knowing she is no longer a safe place and instead a source of stress, anxiety, and sadness for me (most of the time, detachment allows me to not be too affected by these). Sometimes I just wish she wouldn't come home at all that day so I can relax. But that's just me being despondent and having a moment of weakness about all the work I am putting in. It's the same as when I'm at the gym and I've done two sets and for a second I just want to skip the third. I pick myself up and remind myself this is for me and no worthwhile change is going to come without hard work.

That's why I asked you why you let her determine your mood today. She texts OM all day and you miss her? I don't know how to respond to that.........at least, not nicely. I think you are doing a great job at gathering and digesting material on the subjects that pertain to your sitch.

O, I understand. This is what detachment is for. I can tell you this--the me even one year ago would have NEVER been able to achieve the level that I already have. While yesterday was imperfect, I do often find myself walking by and hearing the ding of her messages and feeling absolutely nothing. That amazes me and motivates me to keep going. I never again want to be that guy that feels adrenaline and heart racing at stupid things I cannot control and really aren't a threat to me.

A very good job! Considering this is actually day one of using some suggestions I've offered. She acts like a spoiled bratt to me, but then I'm not the one in love with her. What did you say she when ask why you have an attitude?

Thanks . It's only up from here. She does act like a spoiled brat, toward me anyway. As I said to artista, I would never consider her a spoiled or entitled person from an objective perspective. But with me, I have allowed and allowed and she has slid further and further until now it's just at appalling levels. It's been a slowww conditioning, where the line she is willing to cross moves an inch and my tolerance moves an inch with it. Time to undo all of that. Great question, and perhaps you can help me formulate a better response. I usually say something like "I don't have an attitude. I'm just not your butler."

An example. Yesterday, after the water and cooking episodes, she called out and said "Are you feeling nice enough to bring me a beer?" I told her it had nothing to do with "niceness". She persisted and asked then what? I wish I could remember my exact words, but it was something like it has nothing to do with being not nice to say I won't run around doing your errands. She said something like I never said you were my butler. I said you say it with your actions and constant requests. Then she went into the familiar speech about how we were talking and talking and not solving a problem. I really think I only said those two sentences and the convo was not long. But clearly I still need to improve and give shorter, firmer one-liners and walk away.

What makes you question it? Are you referring to her snotty comment about the airport? Good grief, if you are going to let something that small cause you to question what you are doing..................Don't you know that's why you are here, to figure out what you are doing? Come on, your b@lls are trying to come through, so stop giving up and feeling defeated over some stupid remark she made. Next time, use Artista's example.

No, it wasn't the airport comment. I know she will give snotty answers and push back. You explained that pretty well and I'm not worried about whatever she does to try to regain her power. The reason I question what I did (and I'm meaning everything I did and said, not just the specific lines you gave me) is because yesterday she made at least three comments about wanting to be left alone, needing space, wanting to run away etc. This seems like a big red flag to me because it means she is feeling pressure of some kind. Maybe I shouldn't have asked her to help with the cooking? I'm still trying to pinpoint exactly where that pressure is coming from. But she hasn't made many comments like that since BD as I've really not showed any kinds of pursuit whatsoever and yesterday was a very noticeable uptick. Maybe it's just the discomfort of not being able to sit back and have me do everything for her, IDK. But, that's why I'm questioning.

Continuing with this theme of her feeling like she needs space, there was a bad incident last night caused by the dogs. I mentioned before my dog is having a lot of trouble with the separate rooms. He often opens the doors to go into her room. He refuses to stay in mine. Last night he did this at about 1am and I went to quietly put him in with her because the doors can't stay open and leave dogs wandering around the house all night. She was on the phone when we went in there. Dropped her phone, jumped out of the bed, you would have thought I was the police raiding a drug house. I assume she was talking to OM. Of course, claimed it was her friend C. Whatever. Point is, she wasn't happy this morning and went on again about how I and the dogs won't leave her alone and I need to do something about my dog that is obsessed with her, blah blah. She complained she is sleeping on crappy beds, doesn't want the dogs in there, can't get any sleep (uh, maybe get off your phone?). Right now, I basically ignore her bed complaints when she makes them. I'm sick of hearing her say I have some throne of comfort and she's banished to the slums "when she's the one that has to go to work". Seriously!? Sure, I'm living in paradise sleeping alone in my marital bed while my W talks to OM in another bedroom. I want to say "O, I'm sorry, are you surprised there are some discomforts involved in trying to get out of your marriage?"

Anyway, I am doing all that I can to leave her alone and have been since BD. The dogs don't understand and I guess I need to figure out how to keep them in my room. Probably put up a gate, more inconvience for me. She reminded me of something, though, that really tells me how badly I need to make a drastic change. She has always said I have no power over my dog. I need to stand up to him and not talk to him like he's a human. Today, her exact words were "Have some authority in your life. Are you going to let everyone run you over all the time, especially a dog?" This tells you, clear as day, how she views me. Worse thing is, she isn't wrong. The reason my dog probably refuses to stay with me and desperately needs to be with her is because he knows she's the alpha in this house. My eyes are WIDE open.

Why were you driving her to work last night? Doesn't she have a vehicle to get back & forth?

Yes, she does and we took it. I drove because she had been drinking.

The next time she is home and has been texting all day .......especially if it's OM..........get out of there and don't go home until you know she'll be in bed. And don't answer the phone not one time when she starts blowing it up. Don't you dare go home and cook her dinner.

Got it. Once I'm done with this week and my final exams, this will be easy.

Guard your IPad, passwords, etc. She going to get suspicious. Let her. Just don't let her find your threads, even if you have to put it under lock and key.

Yes, especially after her major intrusion yesterday I am going to be even more careful. Changing my passwords on laptop and iPad.

[SteveLW]

Not sure the acronym OM works in this thread.

[44tries]

Not sure the acronym OM works in this thread.

How so, Steve?

[sandi2]

I'm missing her loving side. I'm missing her coming up and giving me a hug or showing concern or caring about how I feel. I'm missing the closeness. I know these are selfish things

I don't think it's selfish. You miss her showing you affection. That's understandable.

Great question, and perhaps you can help me formulate a better response. I usually say something like "I don't have an attitude. I'm just not your butler."

Well, I doubt I could top that response! I tend to get too sarcastic.

She is going to push back really hard, b/c you have had a big hand in spoiling her. It's always harder to take a spoiled bratt and retrain them. But, it can be done!

I think she will pull the guilt card every time you come back at her with a response that puts her in her place. She'll try to threaten, like she did about the airport. She will come up with new stuff. She'll twist it around to make it sound like you are the one having a mood/attitude........not being "nice enough to cater to her", etc. These are all actions of a spoiled bratt. If you give in, you will lose the ground you gain. Just keep your eyes forward, knowing how she's going to respect you some day. When she stops having this spoiled attitude, I bet the loving attitude returns pretty quickly.

When she says something about your attitude, say something like:

"I'm not the one who expects my spouse to wait on me hand & foot".

"I don't have an attitude. I'm just tired of you expecting me to hop when you say frog".

"Am I nice enough to bring you (fill in the blank)? Yes, I am. Will I do it? No, I won't".

(chuckle) "Live with it, Princess".

She said something like I never said you were my butler. I said you say it with your actions and constant requests. Then she went into the familiar speech about how we were talking and talking and not solving a problem. I really think I only said those two sentences and the convo was not long. But clearly I still need to improve and give shorter, firmer one-liners and walk away.

I think it may have been b/c you tried to "explain". Let her figure it out.

She reminded me of something, though, that really tells me how badly I need to make a drastic change. She has always said I have no power over my dog. I need to stand up to him and not talk to him like he's a human. Today, her exact words were "Have some authority in your life. Are you going to let everyone run you over all the time, especially a dog?" This tells you, clear as day, how she views me. Worse thing is, she isn't wrong. The reason my dog probably refuses to stay with me and desperately needs to be with her is because he knows she's the alpha in this house. My eyes are WIDE open.

Remember it. B/c one day soon, you will have to remind her that you are taking some authority in your life.

She wants space? Next time you are GAL and she's blowing up the phone, tell her, "Enjoy your space".

[SteveLW]

Not sure the acronym OM works in this thread.

How so, Steve?

There is nothing M about this boy.

[artista]

Her comments about feeling alone or wanting to be left alone have nothing to do with you... It has nothing to do with your asking her to cut the chicken... And in fact, she's pretty darn confusing, and you can tell her that next time she asks about your attitude, or if you are nice enough to do something for her...

Say something like, "you asked for space and I am giving it to you, and you seem to like it until there's something you don't feel like doing... Well, I am not having it... Just think of it as me giving you your space.":

Something like that...

[sandi2]

There is nothing M about this boy.

Steve, OM is the abbreviation for "other man".